Motherwell v St Mirren 16/09/2023

[Mootherwell86]

3 minutes ago, David said:

He hasn't really had a chance though, has he? And let's be honest, if we have strikers on our books who have less potential than Theo Bair? They shouldn't be at a club in the Scottish Premiership.

I thought Bair was fairly decent today. Held the ball up well and showed some nice touches. He’s not a world beater and I don’t think he is going to score a barrel load of goals but he’s nowhere near as bad you’re making out.

 

 

 

[David]

Just now, Mootherwell86 said:

I thought Bair was fairly decent today. Held the ball up well and showed some nice touches. He’s not a world beater and I don’t think he is going to score a barrel load of goals but he’s nowhere near as bad you’re making out.

Fairly decent. I'm thinking he's impressing people because the bar was set so low for him to begin with. 

I guess we'll see how he does, as we look like we have no other options at the moment. Shaw looked a much bigger threat when he came on, which is what I think we want from a striker. Someone who looks like they could score a goal.

Hopefully he gets up to speed and can start soon.

[grizzlyg]

Frustrating day and felt we deserved a point. Buddies not easy on eye but it's the same style that Robbo took us to 2 cup finals with.

Bair was decent today but he isn't going to get us many goals.  My frustration was with the corners, Spittal shouldnt be taking them all as quality was poor. Mind you Blaney free kick just as brutal.

It's our first and only 3rd overall league defeat under SK so I hope there isn't a lot of negativity after today. Keep the faith 

[grizzlyg]

1 hour ago, Happy Dosser said:

Thought that was the best we've played in ages as far as passing and moving were concerned. Obviously we need a cutting edge, like SM's left-back 🤣. They were brutal and shared out their fouls nicely to avoid the red-card treatment from the ref. Dunne's simulation was really pathetic and deserved a card, imbo. They'll get fun' oot over the length of the season though and as our forward players return (Biereth in particular) I'm sure we'll surpass them in the league.

Lennon Miller is quite incredible for his age. Jim McLean would have had him on a contract until 2035.

A sore one today but no time to brood with games against THe Ghastlies coming up.

Your comment about Lennon Miller is way off the mark....2040 at the earliest!! 😜😜

[gaz7]

40 minutes ago, David said:

He hasn't really had a chance though, has he? And let's be honest, if we have strikers on our books who have less potential than Theo Bair? They shouldn't be at a club in the Scottish Premiership.

He's had a few appearances and done nothing and that's not me writing him off as he's only 17 I'm just stating the obvious. 

Kettlewell sees him every day and that is also reason he's not had a chance as likelihood is he doesn't do anything in training either.

Bair is a far better option than ferrie at this time 

 

[Kmcalpin]

4 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I've never liked Motherwell playing one up front and still don't.

Yes  playing one striker who isn't a goalscorer was always going to cause us problems. If injuries permit,  I'd play Shaw and Bair up front together. Great that young Ferrie got some game time but any time I've seen him he doesn't seem ready for first team football. Still not at all sure about Bair but no one expected him to be a first pick striker. 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, David said:

. 

Shaw looked a much bigger threat when he came on, which is what I think we want from a striker. Someone who looks like they could score a goal.

 

Every striker irrespective of ability looks like they can score a goal at some point its the ones who actually put the ball in the net that are remembered.

Shaws chance was a bad miss today he should have scored, and the same applies to Bair.

Today was a big game, 3 points would have kept us joint top and 4 in front of Rangers heading into the double header with the ugly sisters and our lack of a cutting edge cost us that chance.

Scintillating flowing football counts for nothing if you dont take full advantage of your dominance and chances by scoring goals.

[SteelmaninOZ]

Thought we’d beat them watching the highlights we did everything right except score. It’s bloody obvious we need our strikers off the injured list who knows we could even win next week. 
COYW!

[Kmcalpin]

I think we've only failed to score twice under SK and on both occasions its been against St Mirren. Lets hope that's as far as this statistic goes. Maybe just a coincidence. 

[texanwellfan]

3 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Bollocks , their fans are the same as any other support unless you've got insider knowledge on every one of them...would be easy for them to support the old firm

their manager will go down as one of our best ....so good luck to them.

We had 20 shots, 7 which were on target and 1 that hit the bar plus we had 8 corners none of which we looked particularly dangerous at so I think those stats back up some of your comments. Sooner we get our “preferred” choice strikers in the better. Although I’m sure there will other games where if we have similar stats or worse we will score goals. It’s been a while since we had a midfield move the ball around like we did today. I also noted Mugabi dribbling on a few occasions but I don’t think I like that. 😳

 

[The African]

We will play worse than that and win this season. The number of chances we are creating gives me some hope that we will have an improved season and are heading in the right direction.

I think we were always going to miss KVV’s goals and that criticism of our summer recruitment is an easy but lazy option. Who were we supposed to be bringing in to replace him on our budget? 

Two tough fixtures coming up where anything gained in terms of points will be a surprise and a bonus. Hopefully we come out of these games without too much damage to our confidence and can get back to accumulating points in the matches against our financial peers.

[smiddy]

5 hours ago, David said:

Yeah, no disagreement there. I'd just rather we gave someone like Ferrie that chance in the team rather than someone like Bair. 

Still, we'll see how it goes I guess.

oooooooft you dont like him mr moderstor do you ??????????

[Wellsince1976]

14 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Are we just ignoring Biereth?

Hardly SK's fault he is unavailable to us.

His replacement Shaw is not long in the door and has had a couple of cameos from the bench. Bit early to be writing him off.

Signing Obika is up for criticism based purely on his injury record and there hasnt been much from Wilkinson to give encouragement. But based on his previous career / stats, he wasnt disimilar to KVV.

Bair is the one that everyone was thinking WTF, but honestly, he has been way better than I thought he was going to be. Nothing startling but a big honest laddie that will run about and try to create space for others to fill.

Todays result isnt really a surprise given our injury woes and McGinns suspension.

The fact that we were able to still put in a decent performance and just couldnt take our chances is what is frustrating.

I think once everyone is back fit we will be in a strong position. Just need to try and grind out a few results until then.

The next two weeks will be tough assignments.

Spot on 100%

[Bart Verheul]

14 hours ago, ropy said:

When the chance fell to Shaw I thought he was offside, linesman didn’t flag possibly because the keeper collected it? Anyone else?

Yeah said this at the time, if it had went in I was convinced it would have been disallowed by VAR

[Kmcalpin]

Oh for Davy Cooper yesterday, as our crossing and set pieces were very poor and predictable. He could vary his deliveries and in a game like yesterday's, where aerial balls were totally ineffective, he'd fire in hard, knee high balls into the 6 yard box, knowing they were a nightmare to defend against. On paper, our best chance of snatching a goal was perhaps set pieces but that was never going to happen.

Currently, Shaw is the only other fit senior striker we have but we don't know if he's match fit quite apart from the fact he might not be good enough.  I'd like to think though that we'll now cease "the lone striker as Bair" forced experiment forthwith.  There are other, albeit limited, avenues to explore hopefully.   

[dennyc]

13 hours ago, David said:

He hasn't really had a chance though, has he? And let's be honest, if we have strikers on our books who have less potential than Theo Bair? They shouldn't be at a club in the Scottish Premiership.

Agree Ferrie may well have potential. But let’s be realistic. He is nowhere near ready for the first team. Most obvious is how easily he gets pushed off the ball, bullied.  Cannot fault his effort though. I think we have scrapped our reserve team, which is a pity as maybe that would have given Ferrie a chance to develop and mature physically in a fairly competitive setting. Not sure what he can learn at youth level. Sadly a sign of the times at most clubs. 

If it’s a comparison of Bair, Shaw and Ferrie. Bair is big, strong and links up well. Works his socks off. Sadly not a natural finisher as his record shows.

Shaw is mobile, links up well, decent in the air, looks to have a bit of pace and has scored goals elsewhere. Admittedly he should have done better when fed by Paton. Given more game time he is likely to be our top scoring striker this season.

Ferrie has potential but that’s it at the moment. If Obika and Wilkinson are ever fit again, then they will also be ahead of him in the queue and for me that speaks volumes. 

Like you I was in despair when we signed Bair, looking his record elsewhere. I saw it as a waste of limited funds. Unlike you I am trying to move on from that and recognise what he does contribute to the team. Tynecastle and yesterday proved that he can add value. But somehow Kettlewell has to find him a goal scoring partner to play alongside him which might be a challenge given our preferred formation. Had we won yesterday, I doubt we would be having this debate today. If Bair is eventually dropped, then Shaw seems the best option to me. 

[GazzyB]

Bair works hard, puts himself about and links the play quite well. He's not much of a goalscoring threat but does that really matter when 1) he's upfront on his own and 2) he's contributing to twenty efforts on goal overall yesterday?

 

He's NOWHERE NEAR as bad as I was expecting with all the shite from St Johnstone fans etc during pre-season. He's just not much of a goal threat, but everything else about him looks decent. Stick a fully fit Biereth or Shaw alongside him and maybe we'll see more goals overall.

[gaz7]

Bair is playing as a target man rather than a striker as I read someone else point out and this sums him up I think.

By only having him up top it allows our 4 in midfield to get a grip on the game and hence slattery paton and Spittal are all having gd games recently going forward whilst miller sits deeper and keeps things ticking over.

Curtis main done similar role when turnbull arriyibi and hastie were tearing it up and he also got some stick on here.

We will switch between I up which will help us dominate midfield and 2 up which will mean more direct route as season develops I feel on a horses for courses basis.

 

[steelboy]

Bair had a great chance to score in both halves and fluffed the two of them. He's also doesn't seem to have much ability to find space in the box for crosses. 

Hopefully we can get shot of him at the end of the season because he's not good enough. Everything he does is going away from goal which opposition teams are happy to let him do. 

[dennyc]

14 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Bair had a great chance to score in both halves and fluffed the two of them. He's also doesn't seem to have much ability to find space in the box for crosses. 

Hopefully we can get shot of him at the end of the season because he's not good enough. Everything he does is going away from goal which opposition teams are happy to let him do. 

Everybody is agreed Bair is not a goal scorer and if we had one ready to replace him then he would not be starting. But we don't, so he is currently our best option and the team is structured on that basis. Shaw might be that man but only time will tell.

Repeatedly banging on about his shortcomings and blatantly ignoring any positive contribution is so blinkered. You were not so vocal regards Bair after the Hearts victory. Have you ever considered that, under our current circumstances,  Kettlewell may be playing Bair looking for to him to assist others to take the chances he and the rest of the team create, rather than racking up KVV like numbers for himself?  Kilmarnock being another positive example where Bair helped us win a game that looked lost.

Was I delighted when we signed Bair? NO.

Do I recognise that he has contributed towards our excellent start to the League season? YES.

Do I expect him to feature in the team for ever and ever? NO. 

Where I do agree with you is that Kettlewell's efforts at finding a KVV replacement have fallen short. That's not really unexpected though and in truth Kettlewell did highlight how difficult that task would be. He was quite open that goals would likely have to come from other areas to compensate. And that is exactly where we are at.

I assume Bair has now joined your list that includes SOD and Spittal. Players whose every mistake is shouted from the rooftops, but whose every positive contribution is ignored. 

 

 

[texanwellfan]

45 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Everybody is agreed Bair is not a goal scorer and if we had one ready to replace him then he would not be starting. But we don't, so he is currently our best option and the team is structured on that basis. Shaw might be that man but only time will tell.

Repeatedly banging on about his shortcomings and blatantly ignoring any positive contribution is so blinkered. You were not so vocal regards Bair after the Hearts victory. Have you ever considered that, under our current circumstances,  Kettlewell may be playing Bair looking for to him to assist others to take the chances he and the rest of the team create, rather than racking up KVV like numbers for himself?  Kilmarnock being another positive example where Bair helped us win a game that looked lost.

Was I delighted when we signed Bair? NO.

Do I recognise that he has contributed towards our excellent start to the League season? YES.

Do I expect him to feature in the team for ever and ever? NO. 

Where I do agree with you is that Kettlewell's efforts at finding a KVV replacement have fallen short. That's not really unexpected though and in truth Kettlewell did highlight how difficult that task would be. He was quite open that goals would likely have to come from other areas to compensate. And that is exactly where we are at.

I assume Bair has now joined your list that includes SOD and Spittal. Players whose every mistake is shouted from the rooftops, but whose every positive contribution is ignored. 

 

 

I thought his scoring effort in the first half was ok. His angle was very tight and well covered by the goalie so he went for a more difficult option of putting it in at the far post and narrowly missed. It wasn’t an easy chance. The one in the second half he just snatched at it as it came to him quickly. 

[grizzlyg]

The problem with Bair was he was never going to be first choice but injuries have meant we have no other option. The lad is trying his best and isn't as bad as Is being made out to be. I would give Shaw a run in that role and see what happens 

[steelboy]

4 hours ago, dennyc said:

I assume Bair has now joined your list that includes SOD and Spittal. Players whose every mistake is shouted from the rooftops, but whose every positive contribution is ignored. 

 

 

Bair simply isn't good enough. SOD is a liability in defence and toothless in attack.

Spittal has good aspects to his game and should focus on them while losing the delusion that he's good at shooting or crossing the ball. He also needs to work on his fitness, 25 minutes into the game and he's literally walking back up the park while we are defending in our own half.

[SteelmaninOZ]

 

He was there as well.

[dinnae-punt-it]

I felt like part of the problem on Saturday was not having natural width on the left. I was crying out for O’Donnell to be taken off so Spencer could move to the right, with Gent coming on. Playing a one footed right back at left back with no less than 3 left footed players on the bench capable of playing left back was daft in my opinion, even if we got away with in Spencer’s first couple of games. O’Donnell get caught out so often at the back post and his general distribution and attacking ability is really poor. Hopefully SK start with Spencer and Gent/McGinley/Wilson in the next game, even if it is against Rangers. Won’t happen though. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by dinnae-punt-it
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