Motherwell v Ross County 28/10/2023

[Ya Bezzer!]

48 minutes ago, wellfan said:

There was a point in the second half yesterday where he got the ball at his feet in the box and instead of shooting he proceeded to run towards the O’Donnell stand with the ball. That suggests to me that he doesn't have the strikers instinct and no amount of preseasons could fix that. He was a panic signing and that's it. 

It's suggesting to you he doesn't have a strikers instinct based on one incident in a poor overall team performance when the player clearly isn't up to speed, hasn't played in the team and is maybe lacking a little bit of confidence.

There were plenty on here slating Van Veen in the first half of last season.  

I'm not saying he's the answer but he deserves to be judged on a run of games. 

Bair has 10 league starts, Shaw has 1.  You can't lump them in together and I think that's what a lot of people are doing.

[joewarkfanclub]

44 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I said before the match I wanted to see a strong start and I got a dreadful start.  Ross County really should have been three up in the first ten minutes.  We really need to make stronger starts to matches because we are giving the initiative to the oppositions and if we keep doing that we are going to be out of games early on.

Lennon Miller was noticeable in his absence and the midfield really didn't work yesterday.   I think 'officially' it was a 5-3-2 but Spittal was trying to link with the forwards and that really only left two in there and Slattery was completely anonymous yesterday.  I've said it before but Slattery is an AM, he cannot performance as a centre midfielder or someone with defensive duties.  

Although we lost 3 goals I don't think we were defensively too bad, the main difference in the teams was Ross County's radical idea to actually shot at goal.  Brophy and Murray's goals were both well taken and some good propaganda for the idea forward players should be finishers.  You'd think as an idea that concept should be obvious but.....  The third goal though was poor from us and we need to bring up Dan Casey.  The guy can be an asset and he has good qualities but his positional discipline is all over the place and he really needs to screw the heid a bit.  I actually thought he was to blame for the losing goal against Celtic when he was right where he needed to be and then for reasons unknown ran across the goal out of the area the ball was played into.  Even the goal he scored earlier in the season, why on earth was he there to score it?  I think from a coaching perspective Casey is a 'spare the rod, spoil the child' type.  Kettlewell really needs to keep Casey under firm reigns to get the best out of him.

Also from a defensive point of view our full backs are, and have been, an issue for a while.  O'Donnell shouldn't have been given a new contract and a succession of loan players over the past couple of seasons hasn't helped either.  Spencer was probably our best player going into the second half but as others have said he's a right back playing left back.

Upfront I've seen enough of Bair to come to the conclusion he's a space filler and that's about it.  He's a big guy and he doesn't even win headers. However I think some or even most here are being harsh on Shaw.  He's had no pre season and started one match and some folk are saying he should never play again.  Come on.  Not saying he's the answer and I'd play Wilkinson and Biereth in front of him but for me he gets into positions and had one of our few efforts at goal yesterday.

On Biereth, this guy is miles above Scottish Premiership level.  His pace, his drive, his ability can transform our season if he stays fit and other managers don't send out an assassin to deal with the guy.

Hard to argue with any of that. 

I think we have the makings of a pretty decent team that can challenge for top 6 when everyone is fit and available for selection.

Circumstances have conspired against us recently and we have had a poor run of results no doubt.

You could, and some have, pointed the finger at SK for signing players with a history of injuries (Souare and Obika) or players that have no track record of being good enough at this level (Bair), and that is all fair comment.

However, that all has to be taken in the context of who was available to us / willing to sign.

Spencer and Biereth look pretty shrewd aquisitions on the loan market. Both players we wouldnt have the resources to sign on permanent deals and we havent really seen enough of Gent to judge him fairly. Shaw similarly hasnt had much gametime to prove himself but as others have said he was a last minute signing to cover for injury.

I would expect in the run up to the next international break we will see much more game time for Mika and Butcher will be eased back into the starting line up at the expense of Mugabi. With Miller back we should get back to having more control in the midfield and give us a better platform to impose ourselves on the opposition.

Im fully in favour of getting Spencer on the right, but that would mean throwing Gent in at left back, and Im not sure he us ready for that. 

Big  few games coming up. SK needs to show he is capable of transitioning this team and getting the best out it.

 

[Ya Bezzer!]

4 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Im fully in favour of getting Spencer on the right, but that would mean throwing Gent in at left back, and Im not sure he us ready for that. 

I'm not a big fan of O'Donnell, as most will know, but some of his better performances as I seem to remember have actually been when he played at left back.

Maybe you are just reversing the same problem but I always think if you are going to play one of two out of position you might as well put the better one in the correct role to maximise their effectiveness.

[Great Balls of Shire]

34 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Oh dear, the naughty language police have arrived. 

You're a hoot 😁

[star sail]

First home game I have managed to get along to this season so it was interesting for me for a number of reasons.

Firstly, I thought Firpark was looking as good as I have seen it. Nice to see that hard work is going into to maintaining the stadium.

The first 10 minutes from a Motherwell perspective was like a training session. I was taken aback by the lack of intensity. Biereth coming on in the second have made the contrast of the intensity with which the game should be played all the more notable.

Biereth was a level above any other player on the park. I was particularly interested to see Bair given the negativity when he first signed. He is no striker certainly but I thought for a big lad he had some nice touches and decent close control. It would be interesting to see him play with a couple of pacey strikers playing off him. 

The second RC goal in particular was a lovely goal and shows that they can play a bit when they get going. We were fortunate to escape with a draw 

The last 10 minutes reminds me of why I keep going back to the football. 80 mins of dross and then 10-15 mins of high drama and entertainment.

Biereth could be the difference between a top 6 finish and a relegation battle.

All in all a fairly typical Motherwell performance. A kind of four seasons in one day performance. Anybody saying it is the worst performance in decades cannot have spent decades going to FP.

 

[MJC]

It certainly wasn’t the worst performance in decades yesterday, we saw much worse at the tail end of Hammell’s tenure and plenty of much worse displays the season before under Alexander. 
 

However I think the “worst in decades” comment was more a description of our current forward options rather than the performance itself*. And Biereth apart then that’s an understandable view to take. To have Bair, Shaw, Obika and Wilkinson on our books at the same time takes some beating as far as dreadful forward options go. I don’t know if it’s the worst we’ve had in 40 years but it can’t be far off it. If we lose Biereth again to injury then we are fucked because we simply cannot rely on those four to get goals, lead the line and create chances.

*edit: it was a different post made by a different poster I was referring to, my mistake.

[wellfan]

39 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I'm not saying he's the answer but he deserves to be judged on a run of games. 

People said the same on here about Bair…and now look where we are. 

Furthermore, Luca Ross hasn't had a league start or had as a many minutes as Shaw so far, but the former showed more talent and effort in his brief cameo than Shaw did in 87 minutes. To me, he just doesn't look like he's got it. 

[wellfan]

1 minute ago, MJC said:

I think the “worst in decades” comment was more a description of our current forward options rather than the performance itself.

Correct. Biereth aside, and not including Luca Ross in this as he’s a kid in the development squad, our current striking options are dugmeat and we will indeed be fucked if Biereth gets injured again. 

[MJC]

1 minute ago, wellfan said:

Correct. Biereth aside, and not including Luca Ross in this as he’s a kid in the development squad, our current striking options are dugmeat and we will indeed be fucked if Biereth gets injured again. 

As I said yesterday signing the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse could well cost Kettlewell his job.

[Mad Dog]

7 hours ago, texanwellfan said:

Accidental hand ball in lead up to goal is no longer an offense and I don’t think it was deliberate hand ball. 

Not saying it was deliberate, just that his arm was above his head - so an unnatural position - and the ball dropped much more kindly than if it hadn't been handled - so gaining a clear advantage.

[wellfan]

2 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Not saying it was deliberate, just that his arm was above his head - so an unnatural position - and the ball dropped much more kindly than if it hadn't been handled - so gaining a clear advantage.

Unlike the officials, I don't even pretend to understand what the handball rule is nowadays. 

[bobbybingo]

4 minutes ago, MJC said:

As I said yesterday signing the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse could well cost Kettlewell his job.

I believe you're also mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

[SteelmaninOZ]

He was on point in the match 

 

[Kmcalpin]

31 minutes ago, star sail said:

Biereth could be the difference between a top 6 finish and a relegation battle.

Thats it in a nutshell for me. Our defence is playing poorly, but maybe Butcher's return will steady that particular ship......time will tell. Our midfield has gone off the boil.......maybe opposing teams have worked us out.  Based on the results of the past few games, we're a bottom 3/4 side.

Biereth looks to offer something different and can win games.  My one concern with him and a major one at that, is can we get him fit and  and keep him fit?  If yes, we can challenge for top 6; if not we'll struggle at the bottom.  As I said above and in another post, teams have now worked us out. We have to change things. Whether that means major changes or simply fine tuning I don't know.  The bottom line is that we can't rely on Biereth alone; putting all our eggs in one basket and all that. 

[twistandshout1983]

The subs definetly changed that game yesterday

Never thought I would be happy at scraping a point at home to Ross County , but after the way that game went it almost felt like a win 

Looking forward to seeing more of Biereth , exactly the type of player we need

[bobbybingo]

We shouldn't have to throw the kitchen sink at it again come January, but the priority has to be a decent striker, because we're one injury away from being screwed again. Given Kettlewell's recent comments on Kelly's future, I wonder if he's looking to punt him in order to finance a move for an actual goalscorer.

[grizzlyg]

Watching highlights that was a cracking tackle SOD had on brophy,  I never realised how good Murray's goal was for them and also on highlights Mugabi looked even worse than I thought he did initially.  Gent for 3rd goal was just embarrassing.

But.....all in all to get a point from that yesterday really was incredible and hopefully can kickstart things again.   Butcher and Mika returning is going to be massive for us.  I think Butcher will keep Dan the Man in check also and disciplined.

My biggest concern like everyone else has been up front but with Mika, Wilkinson returning it's going to improve things and I still feel Shaw can improve maybe in a front 2 with Mika.

And last word to young Luca.....hero of the day 

[MJC]

Killie 1-0 up on Aberdeen at HT meaning they would leapfrog us should that stay the same. Aberdeen would then go above us if/when they beat us on Wednesday.

[wellfan]

39 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Biereth looks to offer something different and can win games.  My one concern with him and a major one at that, is can we get him fit and  and keep him fit?  If yes, we can challenge for top 6; if not we'll struggle at the bottom.  As I said above and in another post, teams have now worked us out. We have to change things. Whether that means major changes or simply fine tuning I don't know.  The bottom line is that we can't rely on Biereth alone; putting all our eggs in one basket and all that. 

I agree with this position, as it's naive to be a one-trick pony in this league. But, I honestly don't see what fine-tuning, major changes, or other players we can rely on that would allow Kettlewell not to have to place all our eggs in the Biereth basket until the January window. Just look at the last five games. 

The reality is that Biereth has shown us that he is currently our only good attacking option with his goals and assists. Persisting with variations of Shaw, Bair, and Wilkinson will see us concede more than we score. However, maybe Wilkinson will improve by playing alongside Biereth more often?! I hope so. And maybe Obika will come back, not get re-injured, and batter in 10+ goals. He's better than Bair and Shaw.

By now, it should be evident to everyone that we are, unfortunately, solely reliant on a fantastic loanee striker staying fit because Kettlewell signed a variation of crocks, duds, and cheap projects instead of spending those combined wages on 1 or 2 actual known quantities. It was a risk that turned out to be a mistake. And I'm sure he knows that now and will be feeling the pressure. 

[Mad Dog]

Just a draw puts Killie above us.

[wellfan]

18 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

And last word to young Luca.....hero of the day 

Agreed. With all the general negativity around the majority of the performance, and Biereth (rightly) taking the MOTM for singlehandedly changing the game, we shouldn't forget that young Luca did exactly what was expected of a striker and scored a goal when in the box. He deserves praise and I hope we see more of him coming off the bench as he develops. 

[texanwellfan]

1 hour ago, Mad Dog said:

Not saying it was deliberate, just that his arm was above his head - so an unnatural position - and the ball dropped much more kindly than if it hadn't been handled - so gaining a clear advantage.

I didn’t go and read what it actually said in the rules and I don’t know if there is any other documents with Guidelines for referees on how to apply the rules but any time there is handball on the lead up to a goal then the team obviously gained and advantage. It may be something more around the ball coming off the players body prior to touching his hand but truth be told the whole handball scenario is still a mystery to me and seems to vary week by week and ref to ref

[weeyin]

5 hours ago, MJC said:

Killie 1-0 up on Aberdeen at HT meaning they would leapfrog us should that stay the same. Aberdeen would then go above us if/when they beat us on Wednesday.

What happens if/when we beat Aberdeen and then win our game in hand?

Or doyou not have that module on your misery calculator?

[texanwellfan]

8 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Just a draw puts Killie above us.

Any result puts one of them ahead of us

[bobbybingo]

11 minutes ago, MJC said:

Killie 1-0 up on Aberdeen at HT meaning they would leapfrog us should that stay the same. 

And when Rangers hammer Hearts later, they drop below us. Sorted.