Refereeing Inconsistencies

[wellfan]

8 minutes ago, MJC said:

That was long before my time so I’m not going to dispute what you’re saying, that may well have been the case back then. But like I said that has absolutely no relevance to what goes on today. Celtic clearly, in my opinion, have a lot more clout than any other club, including Rangers nowadays, in football, the media and in the political spectrum. 

In my opinion, neither has more influence/clout than the other, but we can all have different opinions on this, likely as a direct consequence of our varied backgrounds and experiences.

However, what I don't think is disputed is that it's clear that both have more influence than they should have in football etc. It’s the stain of Central Scotland’s religious tribalism that gives rise to, feeds, and appeases that influence. It's pervasive, nauseating and embarrassing. 

Much like my personal views on church and state, football and religion should be at a stage now where it can be and should be separate, but that's almost impossible for football culture in Central Scotland due to its social and political history.

As a consequence, the collective Catholic and Protestant victim/conspiracy/etc voices will always be heard the loudest in a Scottish football context, and that's unfortunately how it is these days.  

[punk_in_drublic]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

In my opinion, neither has more influence/clout than the other, but we can all have different opinions on this, likely as a direct consequence of our varied backgrounds and experiences.

However, what I don't think is disputed is that it's clear that both have more influence than they should have in football etc. It’s the stain of Central Scotland’s religious tribalism that gives rise to, feeds, and appeases that influence. It's pervasive, nauseating and embarrassing. 

Much like my personal views on church and state, football and religion should be at a stage now where it can be and should be separate, but that's almost impossible for football culture in Central Scotland due to its social and political history.

As a consequence, the collective Catholic and Protestant victim/conspiracy/etc voices will always be heard the loudest in a Scottish football context, and that's unfortunately how it is these days.  

I agree with this. 

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, wellfan said:

As a consequence, the collective Catholic and Protestant victim/conspiracy/etc voices will always be heard the loudest in a Scottish football context, and that's unfortunately how it is these days.  

Only because the government, football authorities, police etc etc do next to nothing about it and let the both of them spout their bigoted sectarian shite year after year, nothing ever gets done to eradicate it from modern society.

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Only because the government, football authorities, police etc etc do next to nothing about it and let the both of them spout their bigoted sectarian shite year after year, nothing ever gets done to eradicate it from modern society.

Agreed Allan. In all honesty though we can't expect the Scottish Government/Parliament to tell others to clean up their act when they won't clean up their own act. 

[smiddy]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Agreed Allan. In all honesty though we can't expect the Scottish Government/Parliament to tell others to clean up their act when they won't clean up their own act. 

ohh very political Kmc  you will be getting put off here for your political views,    and being replaced by a new poster called @m,moneforppe,com,  :):):):):

[Kmcalpin]

23 minutes ago, smiddy said:

ohh very political Kmc  you will be getting put off here for your political views,    and being replaced by a new poster called @m,moneforppe,com,  :):):):):

😂 I don't do political posts.......strictly non political observation. The Gruesome Twosome have built their power on the basis of sectarianism and that won't change anytime soon unfortunately. 

[sinjy]

I hate both with a passion. At the moment I find Rodgers a total pr1ck. His comments after the cup final about Kipres sending off and his interview after the late goal they got in a 1-1 draw in the invincibles season were outrageous.

As for their sisters anyone who has supported the Well as I have done for lots of years will remember the late seventies when with Miller, McVie and Stevens we were hammering them 2-0 and the crowd decided to break in and disrupt the game. After a long delay the game restarted and they won 5-3 and went on to win a treble. No action was taken by the league. Scum then and still are. 

[smiddy]

50 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

😂 I don't do political posts.......strictly non political observation. The Gruesome Twosome have built their power on the basis of sectarianism and that won't change anytime soon unfortunately. 

iv always based it on  pound notes were green for them

                                        fivers were blue for  them

                                       and the diddy clubs got the pennys that were left

[Happy Dosser]

45 minutes ago, sinjy said:

I hate both with a passion. At the moment I find Rodgers a total pr1ck. His comments after the cup final about Kipres sending off and his interview after the late goal they got in a 1-1 draw in the invincibles season were outrageous.

As for their sisters anyone who has supported the Well as I have done for lots of years will remember the late seventies when with Miller, McVie and Stevens we were hammering them 2-0 and the crowd decided to break in and disrupt the game. After a long delay the game restarted and they won 5-3 and went on to win a treble. No action was taken by the league. Scum then and still are. 

Yup, summarised my thoughts on The Cheeks perfectly.

The Rangers fans' break-in at Fir Park was sheer intimidation and yet went completely  unpunished by the authorities. Rankles to this day.

'Nuff said.

[star sail]

Both Rangers and Celtic are as bad as each other. I had relatives who lived on Firpark Street in the 1980's in the days of the old terracing and the intimidation they had to endure when the OF teams came to town was disgusting.

I think that any Motherwell fan showing a leaning for one or the other is because they have a leaning, not because one teams behaviour is worse than the other.

With church attendance dropping off a cliff in recent decades it would be hard to argue that the UK is still a Christian country so the catholic/ protestant divide is one that even the most enthusiastic of sectarian bigots must be finding harder and harder to justify. Admittedly it was always a political rather than a spiritual difference of opinion anyway.

I used to get heated about and against the OF but in old age I really don't have any particular feelings against either. In fact I find myself supporting both teams in European competition these days. It makes for a far less emotive enjoyment of the Scottish game in general.

Regarding the refereeing inconsistencies, I don't think there is any doubt that both OF teams benefit from decisions in Scotland but it is only on the more marginal 50/50, 60/40 decisions. There is certainly no conspiracy theory behind the reasons for this, it is simply human nature.

I had a very close family friend who was a prominent Scottish referee in the 1980's. I got to witness the fallout for both him and his family if he made a controversial decision against either side of the OF. On more than one occasion he had to move his family to a safe house because of death threats and attacks on their household. This was a phenomenon unique to the OF teams.

The threat is so real that is it any wonder that either consciously or sub-consciously referee's go with the path of least resistance on the 50/50 calls. I think this becomes all the more acute in the last 5 minutes of evenly balanced games. 

As an aside, my family friend was a Motherwell fan and he was of the opinion that, over the years he was harsher on Motherwell than any other team. His belief was that he subconsciously overcompensated so that there could be no accusations of favouritism.

[well_said]

A former work colleague of mine was at  high school with Andrew Dallas and told me that Andrew came to school every day wearing a Motherwell scarf. I had a customer at that time who is a Celtic fan , a very good guy until any conversation got round to football and then his inner paranoia kicked in big style and he became a different animal. One day he said Andrew Dallas was a h*n bastard like his old man and despite me trying to assure him that Andrew was a well fan like myself he would not  accept it as all non Celtic fans were h**s anyway.  That's the kind of thing we're up against in this part of the world unfortunately.

[MJC]

Regards one of the above posts, I don't think any genuine Motherwell fan would have a leaning to either side, but it is possible to dislike one more than the other, as to be honest I think most people probably do for one reason or another. 

I know that it is the accepted and perhaps safest thing, especially on forums like these and social media, to say "I hate both Old Firm clubs equally". It is slightly less acceptable but still acceptable to a degree to say "I hate them both but I hate Rangers more" but it is absolutely taboo in my experience to say "I hate Celtic more than Rangers". We've even seen it on this very thread itself as to why, a Motherwell fan saying that they "were getting strong vibes of Rangers being their big team". A Motherwell fan saying that about other Motherwell fans. That's ridiculous but it's the way it goes in this part of the world and it's another example of Celtic driven manipulation, because such is the hold that club have on society never mind football, it is now seen by many that to merely voice dislike of Celtic suggests underlying anti Catholic/Irish bigotry/racism. I think that that's fucking ludicrous when you stop and think about it but there it is anyway.

I think there are also a lot of football fans out there, decent people who are only interested in supporting their club who also feel the same way about Celtic but for the sake of a quiet life just say that they hate Rangers more or that they hate them both equally. It's a sad state of affairs but I get why they do it. 

I've always said this, I don't like Rangers and find them as a club to have a weird, warped even attitude to life with their dated views, WATP mentality and their 'loving cup' etc. As a support I don't like some of the songs they sing but away from the games I find most of them are okay, if sometimes a bit thick.

Celtic on the other hand are a cancer of not just football but society as well and even the decent fans normally show their true colours eventually and show themselves up as obnoxious, paranoid, bigoted, hateful arseholes.

They are far, far worse than Rangers.

[Mad Dog]

Nothing to do with refereeing but I'm a member of a Scottish Exiles group here on Guernsey and there are members from all over Scotland that have made this island their home. The Rangers and Celtic fans all get along great and their kids have kick-abouts together in their respective kits in the parks. A couple of the families even go away to France together. They all agree how wonderful it all is and how it would never happen if they were still living in Glasgow.

[twistandshout1983]

My take on things I equally hate both sides with a passion , any proper Well fan does not have a genuine leaning towards either team

I went to what the Celtic fans would call a h*n school .  In their eyes it must make me one also .  I think it all depends on the circumstances 

Basically I am surrounded by personally a lot more Rangers fans and listening to their gloating , especially in 2021 winning what they call their 55th title felt almost unbearable , along with their 2012 liquidation nonsense 

I know for a fact if roles were reversed I would be thinking exactly the same .  Know a few Well fans from Celtic supporting families who are always accused of being a h*n despite whatever happens

Also for the record the Green Brigade are a shower of bigots, and better off when they were banned, and Celtic’s paranoia definetly edges their bluenose friends across the city 

In other news 2-1 Bradford now ,  the Graham Alexander effect 

2-2 now . Sounds a good game

 

[SteelmaninOZ]

4 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

Nothing to do with refereeing but I'm a member of a Scottish Exiles group here on Guernsey and there are members from all over Scotland that have made this island their home. The Rangers and Celtic fans all get along great and their kids have kick-abouts together in their respective kits in the parks. A couple of the families even go away to France together. They all agree how wonderful it all is and how it would never happen if they were still living in Glasgow.

Yes that happens down here too and long may it continue.

[twistandshout1983]

18 minutes ago, twistandshout1983 said:

My take on things I equally hate both sides with a passion , any proper Well fan does not have a leaning towards either team

I went to what the Celtic fans would call a h*n school .  In their eyes it must make me one also .  I think it all depends on the circumstances 

Basically I am surrounded by personally a lot more Rangers fans and listening to their gloating , especially in 2021 winning what they call their 55th title felt almost unbearable , along with their 2012 liquidation nonsense 

I know for a fact if roles were reversed I would be thinking exactly the same .  Know a few Well fans from Celtic supporting families who are always accused of being a h*n despite whatever happens

Also for the record the Green Brigade are a shower of bigots, and better off when they were banned, and Celtic’s paranoia definetly edges their bluenose friends across the city 

In other news 2-1 Bradford now ,  the Graham Alexander effect , doing well

2-2 now . Sounds a good game

 

2-4 now

The Graham Alexander effect indeed 🙈

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 1/6/2024 at 10:17 AM, MJC said:

Regards one of the above posts, I don't think any genuine Motherwell fan would have a leaning to either side, but it is possible to dislike one more than the other, as to be honest I think most people probably do for one reason or another. 

I grew up, football wise, in the Rangers-Souness era. So it seems natural to dislike Rangers more than Celtic.  Indeed we had Celtic in our back pocket for long spells in the 80's and 90's.

There is also the fact that Rangers were a bigoted club.  Some of the younger fans probably wouldn't believe the fuss that happened when Rangers signed Mo Johnston and broke with tradition.  Whether you like it or not Celtic were not a bigoted club in the same sense.

I mean I don't like Celtic and the current Celtic support is really very high up on the list of the most irritatingly entitled supporter bases of all time but when you you take everything into account I think the 'culture' around Rangers to me it's quite a bit uglier.

Manchester and George Square being two fairly recent examples of depravity.

 

 

[pretzel]

Great to hear Willie Collum will never referee another Motherwell game but the sad news is that he will be take up the role as Head of Referees. I thought they might have looked elsewhere after Crawford Allan's performance. 

[steelboy]

On 1/8/2024 at 7:34 PM, Ya Bezzer! said:

I grew up, football wise, in the Rangers-Souness era. So it seems natural to dislike Rangers more than Celtic.  Indeed we had Celtic in our back pocket for long spells in the 80's and 90's.

There is also the fact that Rangers were a bigoted club.  Some of the younger fans probably wouldn't believe the fuss that happened when Rangers signed Mo Johnston and broke with tradition.  Whether you like it or not Celtic were not a bigoted club in the same sense.

I mean I don't like Celtic and the current Celtic support is really very high up on the list of the most irritatingly entitled supporter bases of all time but when you you take everything into account I think the 'culture' around Rangers to me it's quite a bit uglier.

Manchester and George Square being two fairly recent examples of depravity.

 

 

Dragging out the child abuse case for 30 years at the expense of the victims isn't an issue for you?

[steelman1991]

26 minutes ago, pretzel said:

Great to hear Willie Collum will never referee another Motherwell game but the sad news is that he will be take up the role as Head of Referees. I thought they might have looked elsewhere after Crawford Allan's performance. 

Yip - the lunatics have finally taken over the asylum.

[Spiderpig]

1 hour ago, pretzel said:

Great to hear Willie Collum will never referee another Motherwell game but the sad news is that he will be take up the role as Head of Referees. I thought they might have looked elsewhere after Crawford Allan's performance. 

I said in an earlier post Allan's replacement will be from within the governing clique, another yes man who will preserve the secrecy culture, nothing ever changes.

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

Dragging out the child abuse case for 30 years at the expense of the victims isn't an issue for you?

Child abuse, like many other terrible things, is endemic in society.  I don't view it as a specific football issue.  It's a societal/legal issue.

I didn't stop supporting Motherwell when one of our managers was charged with domestic abuse, for instance.

In the Celtic case there was ambiguity over who was responsible over settlement.  Hence the drawn out nature of the case.  For some time Celtic denied they were responsible, which was their legal right.

If I'd had access to all the court documentation I would honestly have had no idea if Celtic were legally responsible.

I simply have no idea what links one entity to another under Scots law, which was the crux of the case.

These issues are for the courts and legal profession to sort out and far outside of my view as a football supporter.

Overall though I've always found football supporters 'point scoring' against others in cases where there was real human suffering a little troubling.

[steelboy]

32 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Child abuse, like many other terrible things, is endemic in society.  I don't view it as a specific football issue.  It's a societal/legal issue.

I didn't stop supporting Motherwell when one of our managers was charged with domestic abuse, for instance.

In the Celtic case there was ambiguity over who was responsible over settlement.  Hence the drawn out nature of the case.  For some time Celtic denied they were responsible, which was their legal right.

If I'd had access to all the court documentation I would honestly have had no idea if Celtic were legally responsible.

I simply have no idea what links one entity to another under Scots law, which was the crux of the case.

These issues are for the courts and legal profession to sort out and far outside of my view as a football supporter.

Overall though I've always found football supporters 'point scoring' against others in cases where there was real human suffering a little troubling.

The 'point scoring' deflection argument is what has allowed them to treat the victims with contempt for 30 years. You had no problem opining about bigotry and George Square but when it comes to this topic apparently you need to be an expert with all the facts to comment. Funny how that works.

There have now been six convictions of abusers who were operating in their club. Clubs like Chelsea and Man City settled with their victims as soon as possible. Celtic because of the particular mindset which is prevalent in their club refuse to accept any responsibility and have made life much more difficult for the victims than it needs to be.

[bobbybingo]

15 minutes ago, steelboy said:

The 'point scoring' deflection argument is what has allowed them to treat the victims with contempt for 30 years. You had no problem opining about bigotry and George Square but when it comes to this topic apparently you need to be an expert with all the facts to comment. Funny how that works.

There have now been six convictions of abusers who were operating in their club. Clubs like Chelsea and Man City settled with their victims as soon as possible. Celtic because of the particular mindset which is prevalent in their club refuse to accept any responsibility and have made like much more difficult for the victims than it needs to be.

Have we paid any compensation regarding John Hart?

[steelboy]

11 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Have we paid any compensation regarding John Hart?

Has anyone took legal action against the club?