St Johnstone v Motherwell 07/11/2023

[Onthefringes]

20 minutes ago, dennyc said:

 Do you condone last night's pyros or not? It is a fairly simple question. Yes or No? If you do then fair enough.  I am perfectly aware they have become common practice at matches and so far little or no action has been taken. Do you accept that such unauthorised, uncontrolled displays are against the Law because they can be a health hazard/cause injury? As you suggest, there may be scope for more controlled displays as happens in other sports. But that is a separate discussion which may provide a balanced solution.. 

Eventually the authorities will take a stance, and it's likely some wee club like Motherwell will be sanctioned rather than the big boys. Even using the excuse that effective, preventative measures were not put in place by a Club. As I said, maybe that's why the Board issued a statement. Acting in the best interests of the Club as the are obliged to do. But you never addressed that possibility either? The Bois bring plenty of noise, support and colour to games. Do thy really need to add displays such as last night?

To be clear, I don't think they have a place on the terraces irrespective of whether they are organised by The Bois, Green Brigade, Union Bears or any individual. 

Neither for nor against. I do accept there is poor legislation with poor execution of any law passed, as the health hazard/cause injury ideal has no real basis. You realise many of these devices are utilised in day to day life without issue? Enclosed spaces to record air flow for example? All points mentioned allude to the other debate.

Disagree in the ‘acting in the interests of the club’ ideal you recall - not in the theory, but, how the message is delivered. Certain club individuals were involved in the wording of the statement & were advised it wasn’t constructive & would be an understatement. Not a good environment. Choice words. Mirrors the dysfunctional outlook many believe there to be.

Would take all clubs’ to accept strict liability to see authorities take action. I’d discount the whataboutery of sanctions on one and not another. It’s not the refereeing fraternity likely to make any decisions.

Your opinion is clear.

[Onthefringes]

23 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

There should always be room for an adult conversation, but even if some kind of agreement were reached between the authorities and fan groups on the limited use of pyros in football grounds (we know that won't happen) I don't see it solving anything. I can just about remember doing daft stuff for the sole purpose of pissing folk off, and that has to be part of the appeal here. These groups obviously love the friction their actions create, whether it's between themselves and the police/government, the clubs they spend so much time and money supporting, or their fellow fans.

The authorities' intransigence may do nothing to help the situation, but even if they bent over tomorrow, I think the loss of control you mention is inevitable. It's just a matter of when and where.

Reasoned debate.

Is there an element of its use being edgy as it’s not allowed? A forbidden fruit? Reckon we’d see it take off in the first instance were it embraced, eventually the novelty wearing out.

[El Grew]

On 11/7/2023 at 9:49 PM, stv said:

Or Stevie Cowan

Stevie Cowan, Stevie Cowan! He’s fat, he’s round, he’s worth a million pounds.😂 😂😂

[SteelmaninOZ]

Goggsy99’s wee blog he’s laughing for a change.

 

[SteelmaninOZ]

An Air Sea Rescue helicopter mistakenly attempting a rescue ? 
Ban them flares from the ground  

rant over 🙄

[Toxteth O'Grady]

As well as the pyro, it looked like the toilets in the away end were covered in graffiti at half time. No doubt MFC will be receiving the bill for this.

[Big Stall]

8 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

 Certain club individuals were involved in the wording of the statement & were advised it wasn’t constructive & would be an understatement.

Love this bit. Advised by a comms agency?

Advised by the SPFL?

Advised by a select few fans?

[MJC]

13 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

As well as the pyro, it looked like the toilets in the away end were covered in graffiti at half time. No doubt MFC will be receiving the bill for this.

First I’ve heard of this but that’s poor stuff.

Won’t be the Well Bois or any of their wee hangers ons fault though, oh no! It’ll be over zealous stewarding, the polis, Bob Park, draconian legislation, the ridiculous and unreasonable layout of the toilets etc 🙄

[Onthefringes]

10 minutes ago, Big Stall said:

Love this bit. Advised by a comms agency?

Advised by the SPFL?

Advised by a select few fans?

Those representing club owners.

For example, had the Russell/Brannan brand or dare I say it Burrows been charged with the task it would’ve read a whole lot better.

Take Rangers statement last week:

“Supporters are reminded the use of pyrotechnics is illegal within Scottish football stadiums, and any supporter found to be in possession of a pyrotechnic device at any match risks arrest. The club can also be sanctioned for any use of pyrotechnics within a stadium.”

It’s factual, doesn’t offer opinion and ticks the boxes to avoid any issues from SPFL. Basics.

[wellfan]

Much like fireworks, pyro is generally inconsiderate and can be dangerous. It's pissing one's money up the wall for the sake of vanity and ego.

However, if it can be used legally AND safely in a football stadium context, I’d struggle to find a reasonable argument against it. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

1 minute ago, wellfan said:

Much like fireworks, pyro is generally inconsiderate and can be dangerous. It's pissing one's money up the wall for the sake of vanity and ego.

However, if it can be used legally AND safely in a football stadium context, I’d struggle to find an argument against it. 

Really?

[SteelmaninOZ]

40 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

As well as the pyro, it looked like the toilets in the away end were covered in graffiti at half time. No doubt MFC will be receiving the bill for this.

That’s out of order 

[MJC]

19 minutes ago, wellfan said:

However, if it can be used legally AND safely in a football stadium context, I’d struggle to find a reasonable argument against it. 

I’ve seen this put forward a good few times now but how would that work? How could it be used in a way that is safe for everyone in the vicinity of it? Do they create a ‘pyro section’ where they advise anyone with asthma, heart conditions, COPD, anxiety not to go near it? Is that even possible I don’t know but I wouldn’t think so. 
 

Even apart from the safety element of it, it’s also a complete fucking nuisance to fans who are there to actually watch the football and support the team because their view of part of or in some cases the entire pitch is obscured by the actions of these selfish, arrogant louts.

Get the whole thing to fuck, like yesterday!

[Kmcalpin]

I can understand both sides of the argument about pyros, but too much attention is being focused on Tuesday night at Perth. Yes, it p****d me off big time as we couldn't see the game for 5 minutes and you could feel the smoke in your throat. However you can't take this one incident in isolation as many are doing. Similar pyros are in widespread use in crowds e.g. in large demonstrations, but no action is taken. The government(s) ought to take a clear line on this and a) clarify when and where they can be used legally or B) Bring in legislation to prevent such use. Once that is done, the football, or indeed other sporting, authorities can then take action in a consistent way. As OTF shows, the statement released by our club and Sevco are somewhat different. Thats not a good start and reflects badly on the SFA and SPFL. 

Also  it wasn't that long ago that our club was using images of such incidents on social media. 

As soon as the legal/regulatory framework is in place or clarified, then the football authorities need to make a clear statement, and in the interests of fairness, laws implemented by the police consistently, irrespective of location or numbers involved. Piecemeal action will achieve nothing.  

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

I can understand both sides of the argument about pyros, but too much attention is being focused on Tuesday night at Perth. Yes, it p****d me off big time as we couldn't see the game for 5 minutes and you could feel the smoke in your throat. However you can't take this one incident in isolation as many are doing. Similar pyros are in widespread use in crowds e.g. in large demonstrations, but no action is taken. The government(s) ought to take a clear line on this and a) clarify when and where they can be used legally or B) Bring in legislation to prevent such use. Once that is done, the football, or indeed other sporting, authorities can then take action in a consistent way. As OTF shows, the statement released by our club and Sevco are somewhat different. Thats not a good start and reflects badly on the SFA and SPFL. 

Also  it wasn't that long ago that our club was using images of such incidents on social media. 

As soon as the legal/regulatory framework is in place or clarified, then the football authorities need to make a clear statement, and in the interests of fairness, laws implemented by the police consistently, irrespective of location or numbers involved. Piecemeal action will achieve nothing.  

• Notice issued by the Scottish Govt in June 2022. Seems perfectly clear although whether it is practical and how the Clubs, Football Authorities and Police enforce the regulations is another matter.
•  
•  
•  in public places
• Firework control zones

Fireworks and pyrotechnics in public places

 

 

Extra measures to prevent the misuse of fireworks and pyrotechnics in public places including sporting and live music events have come into force. This is to help protect public safety. 

Unless you have a ‘reasonable excuse’ or are exempt, it is against the law to have: 

• any firework or pyrotechnic other than category 1 fireworks (for example party poppers, novelty crackers and sparklers) in any public place including the street and parks 

• any firework (including category 1) or pyrotechnic, such as handheld flares, at sport and live music events in venues that can hold 1000 or more people 

It is already a criminal offence to take or try to take a pyrotechnic into football matches. 

[joewarkfanclub]

Not been a huge fan if pyro in the past as I dont enjoy the experience of being in the thick of it. However, I think its time we had an adult converation about safe standing. 

Celtic have it at Parkhead. We kinda have it in Block E but without the fancy seats / stanchions.

If each ground had a designated area for these things then fans would have a choice of whether to be involved or not.

That can be easily managed for home fans but the problem comes at away venues like Perth where everyone is shoehorned into a small section.

The young ones are the lifeblood of the game and the next generations moaning old codgers.

Football needs to evolve with the times, within safe and legal limits, obviously 

[grizzlyg]

With pyros it just seems to be an issue for away games.  I can't recall any sets of fans letting them off in their own stadium.  I think stewarding comes into it also.  Proper searches might help to stop any being taken in.

But also it needs proper communication between the club and the fans groups.

I have given Bois plenty praise and 2 of my mates lads are part of them so I know fine well the enthusiasm and great work they do.   Issue as usual seems to be with a small minority which you find with everything in life.

COYW

[steelboy]

The Pyro thing isn't complicated. It's unsafe, unhealthy and stops people from seeing the game. It's not really about creating an atmosphere at the match it's clearly about creating content for social media.  

[Onthefringes]

22 minutes ago, steelboy said:

The Pyro thing isn't complicated. It's unsafe, unhealthy and stops people from seeing the game. It's not really about creating an atmosphere at the match it's clearly about creating content for social media.  

End of debate. You stick to sniffing bicycle saddles.

[Kmcalpin]

Thanks for clarifying that Denny. Very helpful. The issue then is one of implementation  or rather lack of. No arrests on Tuesday, as far as I know, but then again no arrests for letting off fireworks (as opposed to public disorder), in public on 5 November or in recent public protests. For the record, I'm against their use in crowds, but the law has to be applied fairly and consistently. Football fans shouldn't be singled out.

[MJC]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

It's not really about creating an atmosphere at the match it's clearly about creating content for social media.  

That’s exactly what it’s about, as it’s the case for so many aspects of life these days. We live in the “look at me, look at me” culture and football is no different so it’s no surprise to see it being hijacked by bampots who’s primary interest in being there is to set off flares, display banners, jump on the park and create a reputation for themselves.

#scenes 

[dennyc]

4 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Not been a huge fan if pyro in the past as I dont enjoy the experience of being in the thick of it. However, I think its time we had an adult converation about safe standing. 

Celtic have it at Parkhead. We kinda have it in Block E but without the fancy seats / stanchions.

If each ground had a designated area for these things then fans would have a choice of whether to be involved or not.

That can be easily managed for home fans but the problem comes at away venues like Perth where everyone is shoehorned into a small section.

The young ones are the lifeblood of the game and the next generations moaning old codgers.

Football needs to evolve with the times, within safe and legal limits, obviously 

I’m all for having safe standing areas for those fans that prefer that type of match day experience. I can see why it appeals and certainly worth Clubs seeking permission. Especially if it brings in the next generation of fans. 

That said, I read that Celtic are considering cutting back on their area. Not because fans don’t appreciate it, in fact most fans want it extended, but because of the goings on of the Green Brigade. Given an inch, taking a mile. So again the actions of a few impacting on the enjoyment of the majority.

I think any Club can seek approval from Local Authority, Football Authorities and Police. Each application looked at on its own merits. If a standing area can be safely accommodated then why not if there is a demand? 

 

 

[santheman]

27 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I’m all for having safe standing areas for those fans that prefer that type of match day experience. I can see why it appeals and certainly worth Clubs seeking permission. Especially if it brings in the next generation of fans. 

That said, I read that Celtic are considering cutting back on their area. Not because fans don’t appreciate it, in fact most fans want it extended, but because of the goings on of the Green Brigade. Given an inch, taking a mile. So again the actions of a few impacting on the enjoyment of the majority.

I think any Club can seek approval from Local Authority, Football Authorities and Police. Each application looked at on its own merits. If a standing area can be safely accommodated then why not if there is a demand? 

 

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that the cost of turning the Bois section into safe standing was going to be in the tens of thousands so maybe not a priority at this moment in time.

[Onthefringes]

1 hour ago, MJC said:

That’s exactly what it’s about, as it’s the case for so many aspects of life these days. We live in the “look at me, look at me” culture and football is no different so it’s no surprise to see it being hijacked by bampots who’s primary interest in being there is to set off flares, display banners, jump on the park and create a reputation for themselves.

#scenes 

”look at me, look at me” never more apt each and every time you post.

Boring. Your prejudice and lack of understanding of a subject you clearly know little of offers nothing when others are debating reasonably.

[MJC]

1 minute ago, Onthefringes said:

”look at me, look at me” never more apt each and every time you post.

Boring. Your prejudice and lack of understanding of a subject you clearly know little of offers nothing when others are debating reasonably.

I know as much as I need to know on this subject thank you very much. I’ve got eyes and ears and I can see and hear things for myself. I have absolutely no interest in developing any further ‘understanding’ of this particular subject either. I go to the football to support my team and my club, I don’t want that ruined or my safety jeopardised by the actions of people who can’t behave.