texanwellfan Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 47 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Point taken, however Aberdeen's spies will have been interested observers at Greenock. Central defence needs changed and, if possible, we should move away from one up top,if that is possible. I'd love to see Vale get more gametime even if he's only fit for 45 mins. I’d like 2 up top as well but that makes us weaker in midfield but might still be worthwhile trying it with Vale and Bair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clackscat Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 Oxborough not featuring since his league cup debut, got me thinking about another keeper who had to wait for his chance. If I remember correctly the chat was that big Sieb Dykstra had not impressed the coaching staff at training or in reserve games, but he went on to be a great keeper for us. He made 1 start in Aug 91 when Billy Thomson was no 1, never played again that season, his next game was in a 3-3 draw with St Johnstone in Sept 92, and apart from 1 game was an ever present that season and the next. The thing is with GKs you never know until they play in the heat of battle Its a tough call for Kettlewell, but if he does go for Ox lets hope history repeats itself 🤞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, texanwellfan said: We need to be careful and not make too many changes. Yes, Friday was a nightmare but yet the Tuesday was sublime. In our 8 games since the County nightmare only rangers have beat us. Won2, drew5 and lost that one game. We have had 2 shut outs and only rangers and hibs scored 2 against us. We are not that far away that we need to be making wholesale changes. I think that’s where we went wrong initially. We went on a bad run of results but playing well. We made a bunch of changes and our performances dropped off a cliff. We are inconsistent and we need to “tweak” rather than totally change things. With respect to Kelly he hasn’t really cost us enough the last 8 league games to warrant being dropped for an untested keeper. Not too many changes. But I would be sorely tempted to give Oxborough a start. I get that we dont want to upset the dynamic in the dressing room by dropping the captain, but you can also do that by making someone undroppable regardless of how many mistakes they make. Any outfield player would have been rested by now. I'd give Devine a start at RWB as he earned it with his cameo on Friday and we need that dynamism at full back to make our system work. Midfield wise Davor and Spittal are stick on's. The others would depend on whether Halliday is fit again and whether we want to play 1 or 2 up top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewelllfan Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Oxborough Mcginn Blaney Casey Devine Davor Halliday Gent Spittal Nicholson Bair Would be my choices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 7 hours ago, thewelllfan said: Oxborough Mcginn Blaney Casey Devine Davor Halliday Gent Spittal Nicholson Bair Would be my choices Not to bad mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 12 hours ago, grizzlyg said: My team would be this but no way will it happen as SK not brave enough to drop certain players he has been too loyal to. I would start Vale but he will go 1 up top. Oxborough McGinn. Casey. Blaney Devine. Gent Davor. Halliday. Miller Spittal Bair I like that line up COYW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Like others, I'd like to see Nicholson start, but I just don't think he's fit enough yet. So far, he's been given 10-15 minutes and its a huge step up to 90. Our priority is to solidify the defence. If we play one up top the chances are that Bair will be isolated. Maybe time to give Vale 45 minutes depending on his fitness levels. In terms of fatigue, some rotation is required, but we can't afford wholesale turnover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, Kmcalpin said: Like others, I'd like to see Nicholson start, but I just don't think he's fit enough yet. So far, he's been given 10-15 minutes and its a huge step up to 90. Our priority is to solidify the defence. If we play one up top the chances are that Bair will be isolated. Maybe time to give Vale 45 minutes depending on his fitness levels. In terms of fatigue, some rotation is required, but we can't afford wholesale turnover. That’s true we should make more of our rotation it should be implemented within reason especially with all these games every couple of days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretzel Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 We're 5 points better off than we were at this point last season. After our 25th league fixture last season, we kicked on after beating St Mirren at Fir Park and went on a great run which would see us only lose 2 of the remaining games for the rest of the campaign, I wonder if we can have another season where the form is greatly improved for one half of it as we have been either sugar or shite going back many seasons now. Friday was a kick in the baw's as it seemed like we were turning a corner. We lost some poor goals the last time we played Aberdeen, annoyingly when we had a go when we went 4-0 down their defence provided just as fragile so I hope we have more of a go this time around. Ross County play Rangers at Ibrox so it's a great opportunity to open up some breathing space between them and Aberdeen. Kevin Clancy is the ref for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 “And here is the Motherwell line up for this evening’s match at Pittodrie… Number 1 - the Captain - Liam Kelly Number 2 - Stephen O’Donnell………” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Looks like Kelly starts if todays presser is anything to go by. Manager doubling down on his support for his Captain. Loyalty is a great quality to have. But it can be blinding at times. Hopefully not the case here and Kelly repays him with a good performance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 What's the deal with Callan Elliot? He's not been marked as injured or doubtful for this game or others. Is he so far away from match fitness that there isn't a point in mentioning him? He's clearly behind SOD and Devine in the pecking order anyway, but I bet his contract will have expired before he's fully fit if that's the issue. Kettlewell was clear that he wasn't just signing bodies to make up numbers, but signing an unfit player and mysterious re-signing(?) of Shaw could well point to examples of what he said he wouldn't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 9 minutes ago, wellfan said: What's the deal with Callan Elliot? He's not been marked as injured or doubtful for this game or others. Is he so far away from match fitness that there isn't a point in mentioning him? I read somewhere that he hadn't play a competitive game since June. If true then it will take some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said: Looks like Kelly starts if todays presser is anything to go by. Manager doubling down on his support for his Captain. Loyalty is a great quality to have. But it can be blinding at times. Hopefully not the case here and Kelly repays him with a good performance I think it's more than loyalty at play. The one thing Kettlewell has had in our bad run of winless games is the full support of the squad. We've seen what can happen to managers when they piss off the majority of the squad or even just the influential dressing room leaders. He's had that support because he's played it very smart regarding squad harmony. Like him or not, Liam Kelly is a huge presence in that dressing room. He's the captain for a reason. From what I've heard, the players rate him very highly, and to remove him from the team would basically be Kettlewell signing his own P45 at this stage. We've seen at Ross County how far some man-management skills can take you. Absolutely nothing Derek Adams said about his squad was incorrect. But because of how he handled it, the players pretty much downed tools from day one. He was never getting that squad back onside. Kettlewell has retained the squad behind him partly because of how vocal he's been in support of a very influential player who's having a tough time. He's been incredibly smart in that regard, and it's why we're sitting where we are in the league instead of lower down the table. Look at the managers who work with Kelly regularly. Kettlewell and Clarke. Now, on form alone, Kelly should be nowhere near the Scotland squad. But he is. Why? Because Clarke knows that a third-choice keeper is likely never going to get game time, but again, in that dressing room, Kelly is well-liked and respected by the other players in the Scotland squad. He adds a ton in squad harmony, and we've seen how far that has gotten Scotland. There's a method to the madness, basically. In my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: I read somewhere that he hadn't play a competitive game since June. If true then it will take some time. That is correct, but he's a professional who was surely keeping himself fit over these past 7+ months. Match fitness, however? He may prove excellent, but it seems a bit daft to have signed someone who wasn't almost immediately ready to jump into the matchday squad to help a struggling team. Is he another project? Or are we his ticket back to Scotland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, wellfan said: He may prove excellent, but it seems a bit daft to have signed someone who wasn't almost immediately ready to jump into the matchday squad to help a struggling team. Is he another project? Or are we his ticket back to Scotland? I'm a bit baffled myself. He's clearly not fit enough to play anytime soon. If he's a project, and we only have until May to assess him, when does he play? As far as Kelly is concerned, maybe SK is "managing" him in public. I can only assume that he has seen enough of Oxborough to know he doesn't rate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 What annoys me is SK publicly came out and slated Gent after Hibs game. Must be ok to slate Loan players. I have no doubt Kelly is a great professional and popular with all of the squad but fact remains he has not been good this season compared to previous seasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 13 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: What annoys me is SK publicly came out and slated Gent after Hibs game. Must be ok to slate Loan players. Everyone reacts differently to criticism - Gent has been superb since that very public kick up the arse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, Mad Dog said: Everyone reacts differently to criticism - Gent has been superb since that very public kick up the arse. He certainly has, can't disagree with that. I just feel that SK singled him out yet other players can make mistakes but nothing mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: He certainly has, can't disagree with that. I just feel that SK singled him out yet other players can make mistakes but nothing mentioned. Yeah, that's my point, maybe Kelly has been dealt with differently and in private. SK comes across as someone who is a good man-manager and, more often than not, he knows how to get the best out of his players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 53 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: What annoys me is SK publicly came out and slated Gent after Hibs game. Must be ok to slate Loan players. I have no doubt Kelly is a great professional and popular with all of the squad but fact remains he has not been good this season compared to previous seasons Certain players are Teflon, and Kelly is one of them, rightly or wrongly. I think he's a good enough goalkeeper for our level, but not at the reported wage he's on anymore, and I wouldn't be too bothered if we kept him on at reduced terms or he went elsewhere. In truth, I think he may need a fresh start, as it must be hurting him to know how bad his form can and has plummeted this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 30 minutes ago, wellfan said: Certain players are Teflon, and Kelly is one of them, rightly or wrongly. I think he's a good enough goalkeeper for our level, but not at the reported wage he's on anymore, and I wouldn't be too bothered if we kept him on at reduced terms or he went elsewhere. In truth, I think he may need a fresh start, as it must be hurting him to know how bad his form can and has plummeted this season. I think Kelly's problem is where would he go? I think he would struggle to be first choice elsewhere in SPL or down south. On a big wage so if he didn't sign a new deal I wouldn't be too bothered but also if he did re-sign I wouldn't be upset either but I feel would need to be on reduced terms which I would not expect him to sign which I couldn't disagree with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Balls of Shire Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 4 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: Looks like Kelly starts if todays presser is anything to go by. Manager doubling down on his support for his Captain. Loyalty is a great quality to have. But it can be blinding at times. Hopefully not the case here and Kelly repays him with a good performance Heard that, it's great mgr is loyal and Kelly is good in dressing room but he needs to stop the mistakes and pull out some big stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Balls of Shire Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, grizzlyg said: What annoys me is SK publicly came out and slated Gent after Hibs game. Must be ok to slate Loan players. I have no doubt Kelly is a great professional and popular with all of the squad but fact remains he has not been good this season compared to previous seasons He didn't slate gent. He said he was at fault for the goal and he would learn, both of which are true...Gent was good before that goal and after it. I think he's also said re Kelly when he's been at fault that he knows he could've done better ...we don't know what ox is like , I think Kelly should be dropped but SK doesn't so there you go. He never seems to make a mistake when we are 4 nil up. Not that it happens much 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortonhallwell Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 13 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: I think Kelly's problem is where would he go? I think he would struggle to be first choice elsewhere in SPL or down south. On a big wage so if he didn't sign a new deal I wouldn't be too bothered but also if he did re-sign I wouldn't be upset either but I feel would need to be on reduced terms which I would not expect him to sign which I couldn't disagree with I hope Kelly walks at the end of the season. He is a decent shot stopper, but that's it. He doesn't command his box so any high ball into our box causes problems. Any semi decent keeper is able to use their reach advantage to gather high balls but this is beyond Kelly. Yes he may be a big presence around the club but if he's not competent at the basics then he shouldn't be playing. However seeing Kettlewells interview it looks like he will play Kelly against Aberdeen so the messages is clear, no matter how bad you play you'll remain in goals for our next game and beyond. I despair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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