2024/25 Ins & Outs Discussion

[bobbybingo]

15 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

how we go from the Rangers performance to that utter bs yesterday is beyond me.

 

Our players just aren't capable of producing performances like that on a regular basis, hence the reason they're here. Same throughout a league that's as bereft of real quality as any I can remember, and odds are the standard of ability and entertainment will keep dropping.

[Kmcalpin]

11 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Same throughout a league that's as bereft of real quality as any I can remember, and odds are the standard of ability and entertainment will keep dropping.

It will until the English lower leagues collapse financially. They're running up huge unsustainable debts.

I have always modest expectations of entertainment and whilst I didn't like yesterday's level of performance, I don't get unduly concerned about it. 

[bobbybingo]

11 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I have always modest expectations of entertainment and whilst I didn't like yesterday's level of performance, I don't get unduly concerned about it. 

Hope for the best, but expect....you know.

Motherwell's my team, and no level is too low to change that. Same story for a lot of folk, but the poverty of the product, combined with rising prices - football related or otherwise - must be shaving numbers off the gate year by year, and it does hee haw to encourage new paying customers.

[wellfan]

36 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Hope for the best, but expect....you know.

Motherwell's my team, and no level is too low to change that. Same story for a lot of folk, but the poverty of the product, combined with rising prices - football related or otherwise - must be shaving numbers off the gate year by year, and it does hee haw to encourage new paying customers.

Add VAR and its destruction of the matchday experience to that, and gate numbers will only drop further. 

[bobbybingo]

15 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Add VAR and its destruction of the matchday experience to that, and gate numbers will only drop further. 

Very true.

[Kmcalpin]

There's two ways to look at squad rebuilding for next season. A large amount of bodies will be departing; lack of consistency and time for new lads to settle in and gel; managerial time and effort required to plan for this; some new arrivals will tank. Most, maybe all of this is true. 

However, I prefer to take the opposite, more positive view. Having managed the team for a bit longer now, SK will be more aware of individuals' strengths and weaknesses. He'll have seen them in more diverse situations. He'll also have more freedom to sign his own men as so many depart. More deadwood will have been cleared. More cash will be available to him to spend how he wants (not in overall terms but through distribution of what we could call wasted money).

On the Dundee matchday thread, Steelboy makes a very valid point in this respect, when he wrote "The problem with our squad is Lamie, Tierney, Maguire, McGinley, Obika, Wilkinson, Elliott and Shaw. Change them for a decent centre half and centre mid and we'd easily be top six." Some of course have already departed, but will have consumed cash in the process.

Now to that list you could also add the likes of Butcher and Kelly. The latter, in particular, will be on a fair wedge. There are always contrary opinions of course, but I suspect most fans would not be apoplectic if Kelly was to move on. I think we could secure a better keeper for the same outlay or hopefully less. 

Then, in the middle band, there are OOC players like Mugabi and O'Donnell and Slattery who some would retain and some wouldn't.  Of those OOC, the only one I'd really want to keep is McGinn. Younger prosects like Ewan Wilson - I'd also want to keep too.

In short, I'm not overly bothered if "all 5", whoever they may be, reject our new offers.

Some questions to be answered too. Is Nicholson considered to be a replacement for Spittal? Would he sign on again?

There are also known unknowns - the likes of Miller or Bair, might move on if offers are right. 

SK has already said that he identified signing targets months ago, and has been working flat out on squad planning. This summer promises to be very busy and interesting for us fans. I'd like to see us bring in a new commanding keeper; strengthen central defence; and introduce some steel to midfield.  

.

 

[wellsince75]

5 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

This summer promises to be very busy and interesting for us fans. I'd like to see us bring in a new commanding keeper; strengthen central defence; and introduce some steel to midfield.  

 

 

Give this man is job in recruitment

Completely with you.  We need 

A keeper who commands his 6 yard box would make a huge difference. 
Central defender who won the first ball and organised us. 
Centre Mid by the name of Alan Campbell would be awesome . 

We've got too many journey men and most can leave.   

Our better signings have been loanees - the likes of Gent and Vale - more like this please. Ideally sign them but if not another season loan would be great. 

[wellgirl]

I personally think as good as Bair has been for us over the last while - there are still games where his form is a bit up and down (like many players) and I don't see why we should be thinking at this stage of him moving on when he's got another year on his contract. We should be looking to keep players who are producing the goods for us in my view. It's obviously going to be harder to keep Miller but I'd be hugely disappointed if we lost Bair this summer. 

I personally hope Slattery gets offered new terms. 

[Kmcalpin]

10 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

I personally think as good as Bair has been for us over the last while - there are still games where his form is a bit up and down (like many players) and I don't see why we should be thinking at this stage of him moving on when he's got another year on his contract. We should be looking to keep players who are producing the goods for us in my view. It's obviously going to be harder to keep Miller but I'd be hugely disappointed if we lost Bair this summer. 

Yes, his form is a bit erratic, you're right. However, he's hitting the net regulalry.

I don't think we're actively planning to sell Bair, but would accept a decent offer if one came in during the next window. Thats not unlikely in my view. We have to consider that scenario, and I'm sure we are.  I have no inside knowledge whatsoever but wouldn't be surprised if Miller moved on in the summer for a decent fee. Almost certainly the club has factored that into their planning.

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

There are also known unknowns - the likes of Miller or Bair, might move on if offers are right. 

Miller will be sold soon enough, and I don't see any BIG enough offers coming in for Bair yet. Much like Miller's extension, we should be offering Bair a one-year extension to protect our asset in the hope that he continues to improve next season and doesn't leave for bugger all at the end of season 2024/25.

[grumpy]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes, his form is a bit erratic, you're right. However, he's hitting the net regularly.

I don't think we're actively planning to sell Bair, but would accept a decent offer if one came in during the next window. That's not unlikely in my view. We have to consider that scenario, and I'm sure we are.  I have no inside knowledge whatsoever but wouldn't be surprised if Miller moved on in the summer for a decent fee. Almost certainly the club has factored that into their planning.

I'm resigned to losing Miller sooner rather than later, that seems to be how it goes now. In an ideal world, Man City give us a few million quid and loan him back to us for a season or two, I'm not holding my breath though.

Bair can be viewed two ways, we have picked him up under freedom of contract, and I suspect his wage is pretty low relative to a lot of the rest of the squad. He has rewarded us, and Kettlewell, with 12 goals and a few assists and is probably a season ahead of where Kettlewell hoped he would be after he was signed. Do we reward him with a new improved and longer contract, in the hope that he replicates, or improves, this form next year, or do we cash in a-la KVV, assuming a good offer is received of course.

[wellsince75]

In terms of Summer recruitment - I'd seriously look at the head of recruitment role ahead of any players.

Daws has been with us for 3 years and I'm struggling to see the value. Prior to him he picked up a few players and sold them off for very decent fee's - not been much of that since his arrival. 

Add to that the current first team and who we'd keep that he's signed on a perm. Spittal & McGinn certainly but given we've signed dozens of players there's not been many that have fitted. 

 

[mfc]

I wouldn't be surprised clubs in the english championship will be after bair come the summer,he's got the sort of attributes they look for down there.if him or miller move on then some of the money will definitely have to be put back into recruitment,we will most likely have a huge rebuild this summer and we will need to get it right more often than not,first thing should be staying away from players with dodgy injury records no matter how cheap we could get them for.

[wellfan]

17 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

In terms of Summer recruitment - I'd seriously look at the head of recruitment role ahead of any players.

Daws has been with us for 3 years and I'm struggling to see the value. Prior to him he picked up a few players and sold them off for very decent fee's - not been much of that since his arrival. 

Add to that the current first team and who we'd keep that he's signed on a perm. Spittal & McGinn certainly but given we've signed dozens of players there's not been many that have fitted. 

Maybe it's time to return to this thread, perhaps?

Also, remember this development, which seems to suggest Daws - the glorified scout down south - is here to stay, unfortunately. 

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/02/13/partnership-with-off-the-pitch/

[joewarkfanclub]

Im pretty relaxed about close season.

Plenty opportunities to free up cash and get more bang for our buck in certain areas of the pitch.

Id definitely offer Bair a year extension on improved terms as he has earned it. However he still isnt the finished article and can still be very frustrating to watch at times, if someone from say, League 1 in England comes in and offers reasonable money for him, I think we would be mad to turn ut down.

Miller will he an interesting one. Would love to get another full season out of him before he goes anywhere, and he might feel that is in his best interests, but ultimately money will talk. 

Id definitely keep McGinn and probably SOD, as we need senior players to hold things together and if Kelly does move on then we would be a little light on that front. Both can do a job in a number of positions as well and that can be vital if running a small squad.

Interesting close season ahead.

[Spit_It_Out]

On and off the park it’s going to be an interesting time I for one am looking forward to see what’s in store for us.

McGinn I hope signs a new contract and would make him Captain also Kelly can leave think we can get the same what he offers on much less money.

Butcher and Obika can leave they offer us nothing at this point if they signed on again it’s throwing money away.

Will be sad to see the Blackburn guys go think Vale and Gent have been fantastic for us sadly I can see clubs coming in with offers for them.

 

[steelboy]

McGinn's form is in decline and although SOD has been better recently he's still got too many errors in him and is rotten on the ball. 

I would guess the two of them will be on decent money as well. As we have seen with Gent and Spencer there are younger and better players available.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, steelboy said:

McGinn's form is in decline and although SOD has been better recently he's still got too many errors in him and is rotten on the ball. 

I would guess the two of them will be on decent money as well. As we have seen with Gent and Spencer there are younger and better players available.

So you would fill our team with rookie loanees?

[wellgirl]

1 hour ago, Spit_It_Out said:

On and off the park it’s going to be an interesting time I for one am looking forward to see what’s in store for us.

McGinn I hope signs a new contract and would make him Captain also Kelly can leave think we can get the same what he offers on much less money.

Butcher and Obika can leave they offer us nothing at this point if they signed on again it’s throwing money away.

Will be sad to see the Blackburn guys go think Vale and Gent have been fantastic for us sadly I can see clubs coming in with offers for them.

 

I hope we keep McGinn too. And SOD 

[texanwellfan]

8 hours ago, wellfan said:

Miller will be sold soon enough, and I don't see any BIG enough offers coming in for Bair yet. Much like Miller's extension, we should be offering Bair a one-year extension to protect our asset in the hope that he continues to improve next season and doesn't leave for bugger all at the end of season 2024/25.

Exactly, we should be trying to set up our possible “target” players so that we can at least get some sort of money when they leave. Surely we can come to some sort of agreement with them regarding contract extensions versus offers from other teams?  Would love to keep Gent and Vale but not sure what that would take and wouldn’t be surprised if they already have good offers lined up for next season already or under discussion. 

[grizzlyg]

McGinn has been one of our most consistent players so definitely should be kept.  Obika no way should be kept on and Butcher done us a great turn last season but shouldnt be offered a new deal.   I wouldn't mind SOD staying, has been much better this season and doesn't deserve the stick he gets from some

[wellgirl]

I think Butcher should be offered a new deal. Even if it's just a year 

[dennyc]

3 hours ago, steelboy said:

McGinn's form is in decline and although SOD has been better recently he's still got too many errors in him and is rotten on the ball. 

I would guess the two of them will be on decent money as well. As we have seen with Gent and Spencer there are younger and better players available.

When he came on at Dundee SOD did everything that Devine didn't.  Suddenly the midfield had an option moving forward out wide other than Gent and Dundee were  stretched all across the park. As a result Spittal started to contribute more, Bair had space to run into and Gent was not double marked. And Kettlewell deserves credit for making that change, despite the concern about SOD carrying an injury. His performances throughout the season have more than earned SOD another year.

 

[joewarkfanclub]

12 hours ago, wellgirl said:

I think Butcher should be offered a new deal. Even if it's just a year 

Sorry but he is done.

Much as I love the fact we look after players who have long term injuries, we cant be wasting money on guys who can no longer be reliable even when fit.

Obika is in the same category.

[Stuwell2]

I’d like to keep both McGinn (1year deal) and SOD (1or2year deal). Both have something to give but being 33 and 31 respectively there probably isn’t room for both of them unless their wage demands reflect their age leaving us enough to pay a younger guy who can play there and develop with their help until - hopefully - our academy player is able to step up. 
At their age I’d suspect both of them will be able to get one more decent contract either in the Scottish premiership or championship so both could be off and I’d say thanks for their time here and best luck to them.