2024/25 Ins & Outs Discussion

[Great Balls of Shire]

2 hours ago, steelboy said:

Spencer started well but got dragged down by playing out of position.

Davor wouldn't get a game for any other team in our league, Livi have three better midfielders than him. His one attempt at playing a forward pass yesterday missed by about 25 yards. 

Vale hasn't looked like scoring a goal apart from a couple of injury time goals when County and Livi had chucked it. He's a good athlete but not much of a footballer.

I agree re Davir, too lightweight and slow to play that position. 

I know he's there to break up play but he needs to be able to pass it too.Maybe being harsh and a full pre season might help but can't help thinking that's why mgr bought halliday .

[wellgirl]

32 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Was there not also a cancelled PCA spat between Ross County and St Johnstone?

Yes. Richard Brittain. 

[wellfan]

Let's hope that the next cancelled PCA will read Andy Halliday.

[Mad Dog]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Was there not also a cancelled PCA spat between Ross County and St Johnstone?

Just googled it. Are you referring to the Richard Brittain dispute from eleven years ago?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/23083594

EDIT: Sorry, must remember to turn the page before answering!

[wellgirl]

The Brittain situation was a bit different. He signed a PCA with St Johnstone and wanted to stay at Ross County whereas Halliday may have signed a PCA with Motherwell and some fans don't think he's up to the job and don't want him next season. 

Not sure we could just rip a PCA up if he's signed one without being liable for compensation. 

Im sure though that there will be folk on here with more legal knowledge than I have (zero) that will know where Motherwell would stand legally if we didn't want Halliday next season. Pre contracts aren't legally binding in England but they are in Scotland. 

[steelboy]

Celtic cancelled a PCA around the same time. A Polish defender who they agreed terms with in February then he busted his knee on the final day of the season. 

[pretzel]

Going back to a fair old bit but we once canceled a contract of a Finnish defender that Harri Kampman signed on a PCA called Harri Ylonen. I don't know if he was recompensed or such or how we got out of that one. Saying that I'm sure things have changed a lot since then.

[thewelllfan]

To be completley honest as good as Bair has been I'd be cashing in. Don't see him replicating the same numbers next season and his value will drop. 

Build the team next season around Lennon Miller and ideally get him to sign on for another year to protect his value.

Seen a lot on here wanting to keep Mcginn I don't mind him but he makes too many mistakes for me i'd be bringing in a whole new back 5 only Cb I'd keep is Dan Casey

[weeyin]

Casey has been a bombscare this season. He seems to get a pass because he runs about a lot, but his basic defending skills like marking his man were sorely lacking. 

I'd be fine with building the defence from scratch next season. 

Not including the wingbacks in that although I suspect we'll need new faces there too. 

[wellgirl]

13 minutes ago, thewelllfan said:

To be completley honest as good as Bair has been I'd be cashing in. Don't see him replicating the same numbers next season and his value will drop. 

Build the team next season around Lennon Miller and ideally get him to sign on for another year to protect his value.

Seen a lot on here wanting to keep Mcginn I don't mind him but he makes too many mistakes for me i'd be bringing in a whole new back 5 only Cb I'd keep is Dan Casey

Miller has signed until summer 2026

[grizzlyg]

21 minutes ago, thewelllfan said:

To be completley honest as good as Bair has been I'd be cashing in. Don't see him replicating the same numbers next season and his value will drop. 

Build the team next season around Lennon Miller and ideally get him to sign on for another year to protect his value.

Seen a lot on here wanting to keep Mcginn I don't mind him but he makes too many mistakes for me i'd be bringing in a whole new back 5 only Cb I'd keep is Dan Casey

I said same yesterday to my mates. I can't see Bair repeating form next season and also he won't be an unknown quantity in the league.  However if we still have him next season I won't be complaining,  just please give him a strike partner 

[dennyc]

2 hours ago, wellgirl said:

I'd be very surprised if it were a gentlemans agreement. 

Surely given the fact that other clubs were after him he would want some kind of security. If there was a PCA can Motherwell cancel it? Everything on the Internet re Halliday makes clear that his deal was going to become permanent in the summer. 

If there was a formal PCA in place, would the Club not have announced it that way?  They didn't so that does provide doubt. I live in hope he was promised a deal if he proved his worth by season end. Clearly he has not done so, thus I hope we can walk away. He cannot last 45 minutes and even then he is off the pace. A liability. He has been given plenty of chances and we are not a charity. If other clubs are after him. they can have him.

[StAndrew7]

28 minutes ago, thewelllfan said:

To be completley honest as good as Bair has been I'd be cashing in. Don't see him replicating the same numbers next season and his value will drop. 

Build the team next season around Lennon Miller and ideally get him to sign on for another year to protect his value.

Seen a lot on here wanting to keep Mcginn I don't mind him but he makes too many mistakes for me i'd be bringing in a whole new back 5 only Cb I'd keep is Dan Casey

I'm a fan of Blaney; his recent run in the team has shown me that there's definitely potential there. He's also comfortable with the ball at his feet and looks like he can bring it out of defence when required. Seems like a good communicator, too; always hearing him shouting for headers, etc.

I can't really remember him being responsible for any clangers, either? Like, on Sunday he was in the correct position when Bevis and Kelly had their collective brain-fart and didn't really appear to provide any "oh shit" moments, which Bevis and McGinn did once or twice.

[well_said]

34 minutes ago, pretzel said:

Going back to a fair old bit but we once canceled a contract of a Finnish defender that Harri Kampman signed on a PCA called Harri Ylonen. I don't know if he was recompensed or such or how we got out of that one. Saying that I'm sure things have changed a lot since then.

This was nevin and boyle acting like arseholes to have a dig at kampman,  The guy played 46 times for his country so would have been decent quality.

[wellgirl]

8 minutes ago, dennyc said:

If there was a formal PCA in place, would the Club not have announced it that way?  They didn't so that does provide doubt. I live in hope he was promised a deal if he proved his worth by season end. Clearly he has not done so, thus I hope we can walk away. He cannot last 45 minutes and even then he is off the pace. A liability. He has been given plenty of chances and we are not a charity. If other clubs are after him. they can have him.

I've no idea but I think it would be unusual if I club said to him prove your worth and you'll get a deal at the end. 

I did see something that gave a list of players and it said that Halliday had signed a PCA but I can't find it. It's possible someone posted that list on pie and bov and that's where I saw it. 

I also get that we aren't a charity but if he's signed a PCA then if its cancelled I assume Motherwell will have to pay compensation. 

[StAndrew7]

2 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

I've no idea but I think it would be unusual if I club said to him prove your worth and you'll get a deal at the end. 

I did see something that gave a list of players and it said that Halliday had signed a PCA but I can't find it. It's possible someone posted that list on pie and bov and that's where I saw it. 

 

It doesn't get much more official than the club confirming it when he signed:

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/01/19/andy-halliday-arrives-in-ml1/

Opening paragraph; loan, then becomes permanent in the summer.

[wellgirl]

Just now, StAndrew7 said:

It doesn't get much more official than the club confirming it when he signed:

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/01/19/andy-halliday-arrives-in-ml1/

Opening paragraph; loan, then becomes permanent in the summer.

Yeah. I have seen this and Ive said elsewhere on the boards that this was the case, that his deal was going to become permanent - I think what people are wondering is if this is a PCA. It certainly looks like it is but the club haven't worded it in that way which is causing the confusion. 

 

[StAndrew7]

Just now, wellgirl said:

Yeah. I have seen this and Ive said elsewhere on the boards that this was the case, that his deal was going to become permanent - I think what people are wondering is if this is a PCA. It certainly looks like it is but the club haven't worded it in that way which is causing the confusion. 

 

Yeah, fair point!

[Kmcalpin]

We just don't know. This link, from the Herald, might provide some enlightenment. In short, the devil is in the detail. IF a PCA has been signed, and we don't know that it has, it might be subject to a medical before actual signing the permanent deal i.e. the Celtic/Fojut case.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13101399.case-pre-contract-not-legally-binding/

[wellgirl]

5 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

Yeah, fair point!

Tbh I think that if he's signed on a PCA then Motherwell will need to see it out. I'm not particularly calling for him to go but it's a legally binding agreement and if we broke it we'd be very likely liable to compensate him. 

[dennyc]

11 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Yeah. I have seen this and Ive said elsewhere on the boards that this was the case, that his deal was going to become permanent - I think what people are wondering is if this is a PCA. It certainly looks like it is but the club haven't worded it in that way which is causing the confusion. 

 

Exactly this. And the media did not mention a formal PCA either, as they did with Spittal and others.

Time will tell I guess. 

[David]

1 minute ago, wellgirl said:

Tbh I think that if he's signed on a PCA then Motherwell will need to see it out. I'm not particularly calling for him to go but it's a legally binding agreement and if we broke it we'd be very likely liable to compensate him. 

Not only that, but we'd likely be viewed in a negative light by other clubs and players, which could affect future player business.

I mean, imagine how we'd feel if he'd come in on loan under the same agreement to sign for next season and he'd been a revelation, running our midfield and looking amazing, only to get to the summer and say, "Actually, I've had a few better offers elsewhere now after my late-season showing, so I'm just gonna cancel this deal with you guys and bugger off."

It works both ways. If we've made a commitment to the player, we need to honour it.

[StAndrew7]

1 minute ago, David said:

It works both ways. If we've made a commitment to the player, we need to honour it.

Integrity and transparency. It'll never catch on.

[wellgirl]

6 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

In short, we just don't know. This link, from the Herald, might provide some enlightenment. In short, the devil is in the detail. IF a PCA has been signed, and we don't know that it has, it might be subject to a medical before actual signing the permanent deal i.e. the Celtic/Fojut case.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13101399.case-pre-contract-not-legally-binding/

The Foujat case was different though. He was injured before he played for Celtic and that's why the PCA was ripped up. I don't see us putting Halliday through a medical when he's already played for us. I can't read the article. It's behind a pay wall for me. 

[thewelllfan]

24 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Casey has been a bombscare this season. He seems to get a pass because he runs about a lot, but his basic defending skills like marking his man were sorely lacking. 

I'd be fine with building the defence from scratch next season. 

Not including the wingbacks in that although I suspect we'll need new faces there too. 

Disagree with Casey being a bombscare feel far more confident when he's in cb compared to the the other then again that's not saying much.