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2024/25 Ins & Outs Discussion


David
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1 minute ago, wellgirl said:

I get this point too. But if our defence was better a lot of the goals against us wouldn't have been a consideration. If we have a bombscare defence it's not all on Kelly 

His save percentage of 63.4% is the second lowest in the league and shows that he’s massively unperformed without considering the defence in front of him. 

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1 minute ago, David said:

Then why are Celtic and Rangers wasting their time on him? If he's terrible?

I assume you’re his da?


Siegrest and Bain are leaving Celtic and McLaughlin and McCrorie are leaving Rangers.  Of that list he’s only a better keeper than Bain. 

You know fine well he’s going to be 2nd or 3rd choice at either club and will help them make up their “homegrown” quota.  
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

His save percentage of 63.4% is the second lowest in the league and shows that he’s massively unperformed without considering the defence in front of him. 

You understand that a goalkeeper's saves often result from the situations and positions created by the defence, right? Just like how a keeper's command of the box during set pieces can influence the defence's response?

It's very difficult to evaluate a goalkeeper or his statistics in isolation without considering the defence in front of him, and the same goes for evaluating many aspects of the defence without considering the goalkeeper's role.

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2 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

I assume you’re his da?

Siegrest and Bain are leaving Celtic and McLaughlin and McCrorie are leaving Rangers.  Of that list he’s only a better keeper than Bain. 

You know fine well he’s going to be 2nd or 3rd choice at either club and will help them make up their “homegrown” quota.  

However, we've often heard that there are significantly better goalkeepers available for a fraction of Kelly's salary. Why haven't Celtic or Rangers pursued any of these options?

Perhaps the reality is that he's not as bad as some people here think. Both sides of the Old Firm may have assessed him and concluded, "With a stronger defence in front of him, he could be a very competent backup keeper."

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Just now, David said:

You understand that a goalkeeper's saves often result from the situations and positions created by the defence, right? Just like how a keeper's command of the box during set pieces can influence the defence's response?

It's very difficult to evaluate a goalkeeper or his statistics in isolation without considering the defence in front of him, and the same goes for evaluating many aspects of the defence without considering the goalkeeper's role.

Okay then, has our defence been better or worse than that of Ross County? They’ve conceded 67 goals to our 59. Their goalkeepers the year have a save percentage of 69.9%. 
 

You can dress it up however you like, the fact is he has massively underperformed this year. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that. 

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6 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

Okay then, has our defence been better or worse than that of Ross County? They’ve conceded 67 goals to our 59. Their goalkeepers the year have a save percentage of 69.9%. 
 

You can dress it up however you like, the fact is he has massively underperformed this year. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that. 

Again, no one denies that he has underperformed. He has, like most of our players, particularly in defence.

However, if he were as bad as many here suggest, he would be finishing up the last days of his contract and heading off to somewhere like the Northern Premier League, just like Aaron Chapman did.

There are varying degrees to how well our goalkeepers have performed. Kelly may not be at the level of Ruddie or Randolph, but he's certainly better than Aaron Chapman or Craig Samson. We've had some legit terrible keepers in recent times. Kelly isn't one of them.

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8 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

Okay then, has our defence been better or worse than that of Ross County? They’ve conceded 67 goals to our 59. Their goalkeepers the year have a save percentage of 69.9%. 
 

You can dress it up however you like, the fact is he has massively underperformed this year. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that. 

Don't think anyone's save percentage has been that brilliant tbh. Not that much between a lot of the teams. 

Screenshot_20240521_220609.jpg

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1 minute ago, David said:

Again, no one denies that he has underperformed. He has, like most of our players, particularly in defence.

However, if he were as bad as many here suggest, he would be finishing up the last days of his contract and heading off to somewhere like the Northern Premier League, just like Aaron Chapman did.

There are varying degrees to how well our goalkeepers have performed. Kelly may not be at the level of Ruddie or Randolph, but he's certainly better than Aaron Chapman or Craig Samson. We've had some legit terrible keepers in recent times. Kelly isn't one of them.


Anyone claiming he’s the worst we’ve ever had is talking nonsense. He has been a decent servant to the club and helped us out of a sticky patch during the covid season. 

He had an excellent first 18 months with the club. His form has since fallen off a cliff and in my opinion he’s been lucky to keep his place in our starting 11.  

Hope he has a shite time at Rangers. 


 

 

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We do seem to spend an inordinate amount of time talking about how shite all our players are.... For context not saying everyone does it but it's been a bit miserable on here this day for some reason. 

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21 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said:

Okay then, has our defence been better or worse than that of Ross County? They’ve conceded 67 goals to our 59. Their goalkeepers the year have a save percentage of 69.9%. 
 

You can dress it up however you like, the fact is he has massively underperformed this year. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that. 

What they can't see is whether McCrorie or McLaughlin are, as you said, better keepers than him. It's hard to lose goals when you never play.

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McCrorie should have left years ago. Throughout the SPL there aren't many clubs that give chances to homegrown 'keepers so really no point in sticking around.

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21 minutes ago, David said:

Again, no one denies that he has underperformed. He has, like most of our players, particularly in defence.

However, if he were as bad as many here suggest, he would be finishing up the last days of his contract and heading off to somewhere like the Northern Premier League, just like Aaron Chapman did.

There are varying degrees to how well our goalkeepers have performed. Kelly may not be at the level of Ruddie or Randolph, but he's certainly better than Aaron Chapman or Craig Samson. We've had some legit terrible keepers in recent times. Kelly isn't one of them.

Twardzik.....Hollis....Michael Fraser.....Smith

Yup Kelly better than those also

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I find the whole Kelly debate quite boring. Theres too many posters with entrenched positions digging in for the long haul rather than engaging with any meaningful debate.

Kelly was a good keeper once. He hasnt been for some time. He doesnt come of his line which leaves us vulnerable at set pieces and his distribution is awful. He is far from the worst keeper we've ever had, but also far from the best.

Looks like he is signing for Rangers and we can get his rather substantial wages off the wage bill.

Might free up some money for better defenders to better protect the next incumbent.

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3 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Anyhoo. Who do folk think will be our next goalie? Wrong answers only... 

No seriously...... 

Someone just as good, if not better than Kelly on a fraction of his salary.

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3 hours ago, David said:

Someone just as good, if not better than Kelly on a fraction of his salary.

Not impossible given that we found ourselves in a diminishing returns scenario with Kelly this season. 

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10 hours ago, David said:

Kelly drawing interest from both Celtic and Rangers, then?

You have to wonder why either of them hasn't chosen the "just as good but half the wages" option that certain people on here have been talking about.

Guess that means we can jump in now and grab that guy though, whoever he is.

Rangers want Kelly to be their back up goal keeper because it gives them extra players in their European squad due to him coming through their academy. 

The Celtic story that was planted will just have been to make it palatable to Rangers fans when they sign him ie 'he can't be that bad if Celtic were looking at him as well'. 

 

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1 hour ago, wellfan said:

Not impossible given that we found ourselves in a diminishing returns scenario with Kelly this season. 

Kelly was never good enough to attract a transfer bid from a bigger club during his time with us so we were never making any cash from moving him on,he was always going to end up a free agent.

With no interest from the ugly sisters etc he would probably have resigned the new contract we offered, but the chance to sign for Rangers for more cash and an easier gig as back up is a no brainer for him, I wish him well if it happens.

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If it turns out that we're offered £800K + add ons for Bair then we should take it. He may not replicate this season's form next year. Yes, that will leave us short up front, but hopefully SK has been preparing for this very scenario. 

My one proviso is that that any fee received is not used to plug financial gaps. Those gaps should be addressed by external investment and/or the Society proposal.

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2 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

If it turns out that we're offered £800K + add ons for Bair then we should take it. He may not replicate this season's form next year. Yes, that will leave us short up front, but hopefully SK has been preparing for this very scenario. 

My one proviso is that that any fee received is not used to plug financial gaps. Those gaps should be addressed by external investment and/or the Society proposal.

Yup I agree, not convinced Bair will be as prolific next season and if he is then teams will get him cheaper as 1 Yr left of contract.  However if we can get him to sign year extension I would be tempted to keep him.

Regarding next goalie I would happily take a loan goalie for a season. Has worked for us before and it also didn't do killie and st mirren harm this season

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25 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

My one proviso is that that any fee received is not used to plug financial gaps. Those gaps should be addressed by external investment and/or the Society proposal.

There aren't any financial gaps to plug, though. The club is on course to break even this season, before any additional transfer income is considered and will have a decent reserve of cash, so why would it be?

As for Bair; take the money, although there's a bit of a double-edged sword with the Copa America. If he scores a couple there and catches the eye (although he absolutely won't be starting ahead of Jonathan David), we should be looking for a bit more, imho. Perhaps a clause in the negotiations that increases the price by £xyz if he scores some international goals.

Use 50-75% of it to bring in a bit more quality/replacements for him and Spittal, then keep the rest for January. Although we all know that's not really how transfer fees work these days, so it'll be what it'll be.

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