wellgirl Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, grizzlyg said: Very true but I want their wages to go on new players, not another coach But as I said we had already budgeted for Obika being here for another year. I don't see any issues with it. He had a contract extension that isn't being triggered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 5 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Obika had an option for another year after this one... Which obviously wasn't taken up. So potentially the club hasn't gone over budget signing him as a coach Am sure someone wiser than me will rock up shortly to tell me I'm wrong though Whether he had another option of a player is immaterial if we've swapped his playing wage for a coaching wage and no one has come of the coaching staff we've in essence wasted a wage that could have gone to the playing budget. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 13 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Some players have left. Liam Kelly. Our highest paid player by all accounts. Calum Butcher. Very true but I want their wages to go on new players, not another coach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 3 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: Whether he had another option of a player is immaterial if we've swapped his playing wage for a coaching wage and no one has come of the coaching staff we've in essence wasted a wage that could have gone to the playing budget. I don't really care. Just saying. It's ok to have different opinions surely. None of us know who has or hasn't come off the coaching staff. If Kettlewell thinks he'll be an asset then I'm happy enough with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 2 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: Whether he had another option of a player is immaterial if we've swapped his playing wage for a coaching wage and no one has come of the coaching staff we've in essence wasted a wage that could have gone to the playing budget. It's only immaterial if he was planning to retire as a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 3 minutes ago, wellgirl said: But as I said we had already budgeted for Obika being here for another year. I don't see any issues with it. He had a contract extension that isn't being triggered We had budgeted for another year as a player if we had taken up 1 year extension. However he has retired so a possible wage on a player has went on another coach. That's not a dig at Obika, and if he turns out to be a good coach then great. I just feel we are not prioritising the key areas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 2 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: Very true but I want their wages to go on new players, not another coach Given the musical chairs over recent years, I think we've been short of a first-team coach, hence the academy and reserve coaches hanging about in the dugout for first-team games. If so, Obika has filled an empty post and not taken a wage away from a potential signing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 Just now, grizzlyg said: We had budgeted for another year as a player if we had taken up 1 year extension. However he has retired so a possible wage on a player has went on another coach. That's not a dig at Obika, and if he turns out to be a good coach then great. I just feel we are not prioritising the key areas Surely if he gets the best out of players in the team it will be worth it? I understand. Maybe we aren't prioritising the key areas but hopefully someone might be along soon to pump a bit of money into the club and it won't be such an issue? I know Kettlewell has always spoken very highly of Obika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, wellfan said: Given the musical chairs over recent years, I think we've been short of a first-team coach, hence the academy and reserve coaches hanging about in the dugout for first-team games. If so, Obika has filled an empty post and not taken a wage away from a potential signing. That's twice I've agreed with you in one evening 😘 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, wellfan said: Given the musical chairs over recent years, I think we've been short of a first-team coach, hence the academy and reserve coaches hanging about in the dugout for first-team games. If so, Obika has filled an empty post and not taken a wage away from a potential signing. I have lost track of who is coaching who these days, maybe not a lot but feels like we have more coaches than Parks Of Hamilton ......cue........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, grizzlyg said: I have lost track of who is coaching who these days, maybe not a lot but feels like we have more coaches than Parks Of Hamilton ......cue........... Just take one for the team and admit you agree with wellfan 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 8 minutes ago, wellgirl said: But as I said we had already budgeted for Obika being here for another year. I don't see any issues with it. He had a contract extension that isn't being triggered I cant believe you cant see this. If we had budgeted for Obika for another year that a wage is from the playing budget. If we then decide to pay him as a coach we still have the same outgoings if no one has left the coaching staff. We have merely reduced the playing budget and increased the coaching budget. We could have called it quits not taken the one year option and we could have let him go and kept his wage in the playing budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 4 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: We had budgeted for another year as a player if we had taken up 1 year extension. However he has retired so a possible wage on a player has went on another coach. That's not a dig at Obika, and if he turns out to be a good coach then great. I just feel we are not prioritising the key areas If he had the option, would he have chucked it and just walked away? Maybe his retirement came as a result of being offered the coaching position and there was never going to be a wage freed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, FirParkCornerExile said: I cant believe you cant see this. If we had budgeted for Obika for another year that a wage is from the playing budget. If we then decide to pay him as a coach we still have the same outgoings if no one has left the coaching staff. We have merely reduced the playing budget and increased the coaching budget. We could have called it quits not taken the one year option and we could have let him go and kept his wage in the playing budget. The option was definitely ours, not his? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, bobbybingo said: If he had the option, would he have chucked it and just walked away? Maybe his retirement came as a result of being offered the coaching position and there was never going to be a wage freed up. options are a two way agreement. Just because there was an option it doesnt the player has the final decision its a two way agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 Just now, FirParkCornerExile said: I cant believe you cant see this. If we had budgeted for Obika for another year that a wage is from the playing budget. If we then decide to pay him as a coach we still have the same outgoings if no one has left the coaching staff. We have merely reduced the playing budget and increased the coaching budget. We could have called it quits not taken the one year option and we could have let him go and kept his wage in the playing budget. See wellfans post. Apparently we were short of coaching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 Just now, bobbybingo said: The option was definitely ours, not his? Just now, wellgirl said: See wellfans post. Apparently we were short of coaching staff. My very point from the start. if the coaching budget had seen a reduction i dont have an issue. I would if the coaching budget was being increased to create a position for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, FirParkCornerExile said: options are a two way agreement. Just because there was an option it doesnt the player has the final decision its a two way agreement. You'd have to explain why a player would sign a deal with the option of an extension if the club could simply tell them to bugger off, because that sounds like a completely worthless contract to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, bobbybingo said: You'd have to explain why a player would sign a deal with the option of an extension if the club could simply tell them to bugger off, because that sounds like a completely worthless contract to me. There is that too. Kettlewell did say in his comments today that his playing contract wasn't going to be extended beyond this year which I took to mean the end of next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 9 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Just take one for the team and admit you agree with wellfan 😉 I am not convinced about the appointment but we shall see. I am happy to be proved wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 15 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: I cant believe you cant see this. If we had budgeted for Obika for another year that a wage is from the playing budget. If we then decide to pay him as a coach we still have the same outgoings if no one has left the coaching staff. We have merely reduced the playing budget and increased the coaching budget. We could have called it quits not taken the one year option and we could have let him go and kept his wage in the playing budget. To be fair. It's taking me all my time to finish my degree with a broken leg without losing sleep over where Jon Obikas wages come from. 😏 Tomorrow I might care a lot more. I might even renew my season ticket if I can hobble to fir park Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 10 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: You'd have to explain why a player would sign a deal with the option of an extension if the club could simply tell them to bugger off, because that sounds like a completely worthless contract to me. 7 minutes ago, wellgirl said: There is that too. Kettlewell did say in his comments today that his playing contract wasn't going to be extended beyond this year which I took to mean the end of next season. I don't propose to write copious amounts about it here but there is plenty online about contact extensions and timelines and trigger points. The club certainly does have the ability to opt out of the extension however there are certain triggers and timelines they must adhere to after which the contact extends and the club wouldnt have such scope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 16 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: If he had the option, would he have chucked it and just walked away? Maybe his retirement came as a result of being offered the coaching position and there was never going to be a wage freed up. Are we locking ourselves into contracts with extension options that take no account of fitness/ability to continue playing when the option kicks in? No legal get out clause in other words. When a player is signed it is routine practice for him to undertake a medical. David Turnbull being a classic example. Would it not be prudent to have such a medical requirement linked into any extension option? And if that medical is failed, then the option falls. It is a shame for Obika and I wish him no harm, but we are not a registered charity and need to stop acting like one. He was lucky to be with us as a player given his medical history. And is he a qualified coach in any event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 3 minutes ago, dennyc said: Are we locking ourselves into contracts with extension options that take no account of fitness/ability to continue playing when the option kicks in? No legal get out clause in other words. When a player is signed it is routine practice for him to undertake a medical. David Turnbull being a classic example. Would it not be prudent to have such a medical requirement linked into any extension option? And if that medical is failed, then the option falls. It is a shame for Obika and I wish him no harm, but we are not a registered charity and need to stop acting like one. He was lucky to be with us as a player given his medical history. And is he a qualified coach in any event? Did we not stand by Turnbull when he had that injury and couldn't sign on for Celtic? What's the difference? Should Motherwell have just told Turnbull to get lost and not seen him through his recovery? And as soon as he did recover he signed for them. As was his choice Why would Kettlewell offering Obika a coaching job mean we are acting like a registered charity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted May 30 Report Share Posted May 30 14 minutes ago, dennyc said: Are we locking ourselves into contracts with extension options that take no account of fitness/ability to continue playing when the option kicks in? No legal get out clause in other words. When a player is signed it is routine practice for him to undertake a medical. David Turnbull being a classic example. Would it not be prudent to have such a medical requirement linked into any extension option? And if that medical is failed, then the option falls. It is a shame for Obika and I wish him no harm, but we are not a registered charity and need to stop acting like one. He was lucky to be with us as a player given his medical history. And is he a qualified coach in any event? To be honest, I hadn't read Kettlewell's comments until a few minutes ago. Obviously the club had the option to extend his deal as a player and were not going to do so. None of us have any clue whether Jon Obika will be a decent coach or not, but I can't believe Kettlewell would be paying him to just hang around contributing hee haw, so he must've seen something. Yeah, this is his first go at coaching, which probably means he'll be getting paid accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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