2024/25 Ins & Outs Discussion

[wunderwell]

SOD has conceded 3 penalties in the last 10 games. This is one of the reasons he gets singled out.
He is one of the major causes of our shaky defence. Him and Mugabi.

[wellgirl]

1 minute ago, wunderwell said:

SOD has conceded 3 penalties in the last 10 games.
He is one of the major causes of our shaky defence. Him and Mugabi.

Think one of those penalties was very harsh from recollection. Ball hit off his arm as I recall. 

[Yodo]

10 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Kelly has gone. Butcher has gone. Mugabi is still negotiating clearly and surely other players will come in. As far as I'm concerned the entire team was poor on that long winless run with the odd exception.

I personally think SOD has been singled out a lot. I don't just mean on forums but at games. I think he gets a lot of stick and some other players when they aren't performing don't get the same treatment. I personally don't think these players are bad players - I don't think Kelly is a shit goalie either. I think that long run of games without a win affected the players a lot. 

Probably haven't explained what I mean as well as I could have there. But hopefully you get what I'm trying to say 

So whose fault was the long run we were on if it wasn’t the players 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/dundalk-knock-back-motherwell-bid-32951767

Dundalk knock back Motherwell bid for defender who is out of contract at end of season

Scottish Premiership side Motherwell have made a move for one of Dundalk’s most impressive players.

By Mark McCadden
18:25, 3 JUN 2024

Dundalk have rejected a bid from Motherwell for defender Archie Davies - but they could lose him for nothing at the end of the season.

Davies has spent the last two years at Oriel Park, having moved from Aldershot Town in the summer of 2022.

His performances convinced Scottish Premiership side Motherwell to make a move, but it was quickly turned down by Dundalk.

It is believed that the bid included no upfront payment, but instead proposed modest performance-related fees.

Right-back Davies is out of contract at the end of the League of Ireland season, so Motherwell have the option of waiting until January and getting him for nothing.

[robsterwood]

1 hour ago, Yodo said:

So whose fault was the long run we were on if it wasn’t the players 

We had 4th worse defence in spl. Clearly defence and keeper primary problem. O Donnel is not up to spl standard. He did have 4 assists however and has contributed. Only 1 less than Gent. Nearer end of season he was getting less game time. I'm very surprised  he got contract. Also I would never offer Mugabe a deal. Slow and error prone. Hope he don't take offer and goes to st mirren. We did well in attack. Most teams had difficulty period. Kelly's not even in top 10 for clean sheets. 

[Kmcalpin]

12 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

Point was our defence has been really poor - the stats and data back that up .

offering the same guys contracts doesn’t stack up to me , unless we’re happy to accept similar amount of goals conceded . 
 

This is where I'm at. I just don't get re-signing the all of the same players or offering them renewal deals, given last year's serious defensive problems. It wasn't all down to Liam Kelly, who also seems to have been offered a new deal, for whatever reason. Coaching didn't seem to work either. Are we going to sign a new defensive midfielder?

Now, I get that its early in the close season and the transfer window is yet to open but it all seems a bit weird to me. No doubt time will tell.   

[FirParkCornerExile]

7 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

We had 4th worse defence in spl. Clearly defence and keeper primary problem. O Donnel is not up to spl standard. He did have 4 assists however and has contributed. Only 1 less than Gent. Nearer end of season he was getting less game time. I'm very surprised  he got contract. Also I would never offer Mugabe a deal. Slow and error prone. Hope he don't take offer and goes to st mirren. We did well in attack. Most teams had difficulty period. Kelly's not even in top 10 for clean sheets. 

I could be persuaded, if not totally convinced, to keep some Id rather see gone but Mugabi just isnt one of them.

[wellgirl]

1 hour ago, robsterwood said:

We had 4th worse defence in spl. Clearly defence and keeper primary problem. O Donnel is not up to spl standard. He did have 4 assists however and has contributed. Only 1 less than Gent. Nearer end of season he was getting less game time. I'm very surprised  he got contract. Also I would never offer Mugabe a deal. Slow and error prone. Hope he don't take offer and goes to st mirren. We did well in attack. Most teams had difficulty period. Kelly's not even in top 10 for clean sheets. 

O'Donnell is not up to Spl standard? Just him? Not Casey Blaney McGinn? Who would you replace him with? 

[grizzlyg]

12 hours ago, StAndrew7 said:

Isn't he off managing Master Wayne's estate somewhere these days?

Cue...........🤣🤣

[Mccus28]

Reading some of these posts about how garbage our players are really has me thinking about which team folk think they are supporting!!

We can't simply go out and sign Virgil Van Dijk (although folk on here would be suggesting he is sh*t and past it as he is in his 30's) our players are going to have limitations, its a simple fact.

People throwing comments like "disgusted" at players being signed on again need a dose of reality!!!!

[andalg]

The managers primary job is to keep Motherwell in the top division.  The players he is resigning have done that so having them in the squad does make some sense.  We are never going to sign 22 top quality players so have to cut our cloth to suit our means.  Hopefully we can then add 3 or 4 better quality players, either as permanent signings or on loan.

[bobbybingo]

3 hours ago, robsterwood said:

We had 4th worse defence in spl. Clearly defence and keeper primary problem. O Donnel is not up to spl standard. He did have 4 assists however and has contributed. Only 1 less than Gent. Nearer end of season he was getting less game time. I'm very surprised he got contract.

O'Donnell played more games for us than anyone apart from Spittal last season. As far as I can see, the only league game he took no part in was the final game.

Whatever folk's personal opinions, it's clear what Kettlewell thinks of him, so I don't understand why it would come as a surprise to see him get another deal.

[robsterwood]

1 hour ago, wellgirl said:

O'Donnell is not up to Spl standard? Just him? Not Casey Blaney McGinn? Who would you replace him with? 

I liked Butcher. I also thought McGinn done ok. I think giving O'Donnell the position he has has been difficult for him and he has more of the ball than central defenders. It's a role for player with pace and we should be and probably are looking at England's top league or tier lower reserve prospects. 

[wellgirl]

33 minutes ago, andalg said:

The managers primary job is to keep Motherwell in the top division.  The players he is resigning have done that so having them in the squad does make some sense.  We are never going to sign 22 top quality players so have to cut our cloth to suit our means.  Hopefully we can then add 3 or 4 better quality players, either as permanent signings or on loan.

Absolutely this! Why would you just get rid of three or four players without having anyone to replace them. Then he would be getting pelters for not having a full squad. 

[Kmcalpin]

29 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

Why would you just get rid of three or four players without having anyone to replace them. Then he would be getting pelters for not having a full squad. 

Some logic to that certainly. Irrespective of changes to the squad, we do need a degree of continuity and stability. Many of you will recall the consequences of Ally MacLeod's sweeping changes and how they worked out. However, whats the alternative? Renew contracts of existing players, bring in slightly better new faces to ensure we have a squad and then mutual the contracts of some players we've just re-signed? There will always be an element of risk but its about balancing that.

[StAndrew7]

I think there is a point to be made about squad harmony and unity, as well.

You can see from the team that even when we were going through our bad run last season, they never stopped playing for Kettlewell and as a unit. Yes, the football was absolutely shite at times but it was clear the players hadn't downed tools. Kettlewell wanting to keep players with that kind of attitude and willingness to play for him isn't a bad thing in my eyes.

Building a squad is a very nuanced and intricate process, not at all easy and is thankless for a manager because some fans will never be pleased with signings that are made.

[David]

2 hours ago, Mccus28 said:

Reading some of these posts about how garbage our players are really has me thinking about which team folk think they are supporting!!

We can't simply go out and sign Virgil Van Dijk (although folk on here would be suggesting he is sh*t and past it as he is in his 30's) our players are going to have limitations, its a simple fact.

People throwing comments like "disgusted" at players being signed on again need a dose of reality!!!!

That's our only choice, right? We either re-sign the same players from last season or bring in top-tier English Premier League players to replace them. 

Personally, I'm fine with O'Donnell and McGinn getting new contracts, but I understand why some fans might not be pleased given our team's performance last season.

Being Motherwell doesn't mean we shouldn't aim to improve.

16 hours ago, wellgirl said:

Kelly has gone. Butcher has gone. Mugabi is still negotiating clearly and surely other players will come in. As far as I'm concerned the entire team was poor on that long winless run with the odd exception.

I personally think SOD has been singled out a lot. I don't just mean on forums but at games. I think he gets a lot of stick and some other players when they aren't performing don't get the same treatment. I personally don't think these players are bad players - I don't think Kelly is a shit goalie either. I think that long run of games without a win affected the players a lot. 

Probably haven't explained what I mean as well as I could have there. But hopefully you get what I'm trying to say 

Butcher played fewer than 20 games for us last season, so his departure doesn't significantly affect our starting defence.

I don't mind the re-signing of O'Donnell and McGinn, as long as there's a clear plan for their roles this coming season. Mugabi's situation is puzzling because he was a significant part of our poor defence last season.

Offering him a new deal is baffling to me; he's simply not good enough.

There's a good chance we'll start next season with a team that looks much like the one that finished last season, with a few new loans and punts added in. If that's the case and we continue our poor performance, Kettlewell will have no grounds for complaint when the pressure mounts early in the season.

[wellfan]

5 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

It is believed that the bid included no upfront payment, but instead proposed modest performance-related fees.

It seems like we offered them a packet of Space Raiders and some Panini stickers, so it’s not surprising we were told to bolt. 

[StAndrew7]

26 minutes ago, David said:

That's our only choice, right? We either re-sign the same players from last season or bring in top-tier English Premier League players to replace them. 

Personally, I'm fine with O'Donnell and McGinn getting new contracts, but I understand why some fans might not be pleased given our team's performance last season.

Being Motherwell doesn't mean we shouldn't aim to improve.

Butcher played fewer than 20 games for us last season, so his departure doesn't significantly affect our starting defence.

I don't mind the re-signing of O'Donnell and McGinn, as long as there's a clear plan for their roles this coming season. Mugabi's situation is puzzling because he was a significant part of our poor defence last season.

Offering him a new deal is baffling to me; he's simply not good enough.

There's a good chance we'll start next season with a team that looks much like the one that finished last season, with a few new loans and punts added in. If that's the case and we continue our poor performance, Kettlewell will have no grounds for complaint when the pressure mounts early in the season.

Every word of this.

[Yodo]

3 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

31 minutes ago, David said:

 

There's a good chance we'll start next season with a team that looks much like the one that finished last season, with a few new loans and punts added in. If that's the case and we continue our poor performance, Kettlewell will have no grounds for complaint when the pressure mounts early in the season.

if that’s the case he’ll be gone by September week end 

[Mintymac]

Of the players offered the opportunity to stay I’m happy with O’Donnell and McGinn resigning. 
Obviously people have there opinions …. that’s football supporters and how they see it, but not so keen on Mugabi  resigning . 
He seems to be ok in a flat back four but put him in a three and he really is poor ,positionally and decision making . 
All the more bizzare in that Kettlewell prefers a kinda back three. 

Would like to see a commanding CH who also has a wee bit pace as backline isn’t the quickest . 

Last year we lost some shocking goals and this season that must improve to stay up . We can’t rely on out scoring teams . That usually ends in tears .

Having said all that I’m sure Kettlewell and Frail know what’s needed . The hard bit is getting them in the door . 
Im of the opinion, as I was last season  that 2-3 really  good players down the spine would make a massive difference to this team .

 

[wunderwell]

4 hours ago, wellgirl said:

O'Donnell is not up to Spl standard? Just him? Not Casey Blaney McGinn? Who would you replace him with? 

The problem with O'Donnell is that he has momentary brain farts which does cost us goals.
Mugabi watches the play around him too much.

Blaney and McGinn have less errors in them. Casey certainly has a brain fart in him but does more good than bad.

I think who would you replace him as a specific is not the correct question, especially when we are in for a Dundalk right back that you would be lucky if anyone has ever seen ever.  The ideal general though is I would replace him in the starting line up with a younger pacier wing back, like Brodie Spencer.

I'm ok with signing him as part of the squad but having had Johnston and Spencer is easy to see how he can be displaced and used as back up. Mugabi should go.

[Mccus28]

48 minutes ago, David said:

That's our only choice, right? We either re-sign the same players from last season or bring in top-tier English Premier League players to replace them. 

Personally, I'm fine with O'Donnell and McGinn getting new contracts, but I understand why some fans might not be pleased given our team's performance last season.

Being Motherwell doesn't mean we shouldn't aim to improve.

Butcher played fewer than 20 games for us last season, so his departure doesn't significantly affect our starting defence.

I don't mind the re-signing of O'Donnell and McGinn, as long as there's a clear plan for their roles this coming season. Mugabi's situation is puzzling because he was a significant part of our poor defence last season.

Offering him a new deal is baffling to me; he's simply not good enough.

There's a good chance we'll start next season with a team that looks much like the one that finished last season, with a few new loans and punts added in. If that's the case and we continue our poor performance, Kettlewell will have no grounds for complaint when the pressure mounts early in the season.

Keep your knickers on, it was clearly an over exaggerated analogy to get a point across, at no point did i suggest we can only re-sign current players or top tier EPL players

[David]

2 minutes ago, Mccus28 said:

Keep your knickers on, it was clearly an over exaggerated analogy to get a point across, at no point did i suggest we can only re-sign current players or top tier EPL players

What was the point, though? That we're Motherwell, and we should just be happy to re-sign the players who were part of the issue last season?

[Mccus28]

6 minutes ago, David said:

What was the point, though? That we're Motherwell, and we should just be happy to re-sign the players who were part of the issue last season?

No, that some people on here wouldn't be happy either way no matter how wide the spectrum