David Posted June 4 Author Report Share Posted June 4 2 minutes ago, Mccus28 said: No, that some people on here wouldn't be happy either way no matter how wide the spectrum Okay. Do you want to see Mugabi back next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 1 hour ago, David said: That's our only choice, right? We either re-sign the same players from last season or bring in top-tier English Premier League players to replace them. Personally, I'm fine with O'Donnell and McGinn getting new contracts, but I understand why some fans might not be pleased given our team's performance last season. Being Motherwell doesn't mean we shouldn't aim to improve. Butcher played fewer than 20 games for us last season, so his departure doesn't significantly affect our starting defence. I don't mind the re-signing of O'Donnell and McGinn, as long as there's a clear plan for their roles this coming season. Mugabi's situation is puzzling because he was a significant part of our poor defence last season. Offering him a new deal is baffling to me; he's simply not good enough. There's a good chance we'll start next season with a team that looks much like the one that finished last season, with a few new loans and punts added in. If that's the case and we continue our poor performance, Kettlewell will have no grounds for complaint when the pressure mounts early in the season. Why would Kettlewell be under pressure and from where? This is what I struggle with to be honest. On the one hand we have fans who want top six and a good cup run every year (and that's fine) and others who are happy enough if we remain in the top flight. There were points last season where I thought we were in real trouble but things picked up. As far as I'm concerned it all comes down to money. If he had more cash at his disposal he would be able to afford better quality players, that's obvious but he doesn't. That's not me slating our players either. He can only do so much with the budget he has. He did the job he was asked to do two seasons in a row. There are fans who don't want outside investment and fans who would consider it. There are fans saying we don't need outside investment and at the same time unhappy with the players that Kettlewell is signing. I'm just not sure what it is they want him to do. And I think some fans across the board on social media have an issue with Kettlewell full stop. No matter what he does it wouldn't be good enough. As everyone knows we are a club with a small core support, fan owned and it's fair to say that Kettlewell won't have a large transfer budget at his disposal. I'd expect the team not to have many changes with a few signings added in and some loan deals. Particularly when we are competing with other clubs who can offer players more. Paying off two managers in two years hasn't helped either. We won't improve without investment - wherever that comes from. If Kettlewell did go next season the next manager would have exactly the same issues to deal with in my view. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mccus28 Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 3 minutes ago, David said: Okay. Do you want to see Mugabi back next season? Personally........................absolutely not but if he does re-sign he will get my support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 27 minutes ago, Mintymac said: Having said all that I’m sure Kettlewell and Frail know what’s needed. Given they've attempted to re-sign the entirety of the failed defence from last season, I’m not sure they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 4 Author Report Share Posted June 4 Just now, wellgirl said: Why would Kettlewell be under pressure and from where? This is what I struggle with to be honest. I'm not really sure what's hard to understand. We didn't do well last year. We played poorly for much of the season, and aside from Dundee who took a beating from teams following the split, we were among the highest goals conceded teams in the league. In fact, I think we were joint-worst outside of the bottom two. The defence was a problem. Even the most optimistic fans can see that. This is why it makes little sense to approach a summer when we would have the opportunity to revamp the defence by re-signing many of the players who caused our defensive issues. By re-signing O'Donnell, McGinn, and possibly Mugabi, we would now have those three, along with Blaney and Casey, under contract. What scope does that leave for significant additions to the defence beyond a couple of loan players? If we go into the new season with largely the same individuals in defence, and we start seeing the same results, then it only makes sense Kettlewell will be under pressure from the off. 23 minutes ago, wellgirl said: As far as I'm concerned it all comes down to money. If he had more cash at his disposal he would be able to afford better quality players, that's obvious but he doesn't. I could understand that if we had to go back to those players later in the summer after failing to get other players in, but that's not the case. We offered Mugabi, O'Donnell and McGinn new contracts as soon as the season finished, so how do we know who we could and couldn't get? 24 minutes ago, wellgirl said: As everyone knows we are a club with a small core support, fan owned and it's fair to say that Kettlewell won't have a large transfer budget at his disposal. 100%. Which is why wasting money on players like Mugabi will see questions being asked, and rightly so. 25 minutes ago, wellgirl said: We won't improve without investment - wherever that comes from. This situation has nothing to do with investment. It concerns our immediately offering new terms to players who didn't perform well last season. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 18 minutes ago, David said: I'm not really sure what's hard to understand. We didn't do well last year. We played poorly for much of the season, and aside from Dundee who took a beating from teams following the split, we were among the highest goals conceded teams in the league. In fact, I think we were joint-worst outside of the bottom two. The defence was a problem. Even the most optimistic fans can see that. This is why it makes little sense to approach a summer when we would have the opportunity to revamp the defence by re-signing many of the players who caused our defensive issues. By re-signing O'Donnell, McGinn, and possibly Mugabi, we would now have those three, along with Blaney and Casey, under contract. What scope does that leave for significant additions to the defence beyond a couple of loan players? If we go into the new season with largely the same individuals in defence, and we start seeing the same results, then it only makes sense Kettlewell will be under pressure from the off. I could understand that if we had to go back to those players later in the summer after failing to get other players in, but that's not the case. We offered Mugabi, O'Donnell and McGinn new contracts as soon as the season finished, so how do we know who we could and couldn't get? 100%. Which is why wasting money on players like Mugabi will see questions being asked, and rightly so. This situation has nothing to do with investment. It concerns our immediately offering new terms to players who didn't perform well last season. We’re singing from the same hymn sheet for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 1 hour ago, David said: I'm not really sure what's hard to understand. We didn't do well last year. We played poorly for much of the season, and aside from Dundee who took a beating from teams following the split, we were among the highest goals conceded teams in the league. In fact, I think we were joint-worst outside of the bottom two. The defence was a problem. Even the most optimistic fans can see that. This is why it makes little sense to approach a summer when we would have the opportunity to revamp the defence by re-signing many of the players who caused our defensive issues. By re-signing O'Donnell, McGinn, and possibly Mugabi, we would now have those three, along with Blaney and Casey, under contract. What scope does that leave for significant additions to the defence beyond a couple of loan players? If we go into the new season with largely the same individuals in defence, and we start seeing the same results, then it only makes sense Kettlewell will be under pressure from the off. I could understand that if we had to go back to those players later in the summer after failing to get other players in, but that's not the case. We offered Mugabi, O'Donnell and McGinn new contracts as soon as the season finished, so how do we know who we could and couldn't get? 100%. Which is why wasting money on players like Mugabi will see questions being asked, and rightly so. This situation has nothing to do with investment. It concerns our immediately offering new terms to players who didn't perform well last season. I've said more than once on here that I wouldn't have offered Mugabi terms. I have no issues with SOD and McGinn. Obviously it's a topic that's going to polarise opinion. Some folk don't want them. Others do and some want them retained as back up. The issue with going back to them later in the summer after other potential targets have been identified is surely that we risk them having moved on elsewhere. If some people think Kettlewell has made the wrong call, fair enough. Am sure as soon as the full team for next season is in place fans will be better placed to make the call as whether he called this one right or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 57 minutes ago, wellfan said: We’re singing from the same hymn sheet for a change. Talking about singing...it's SK's big 40 today......ALTOGETHER NOW.........HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU......🤣🤣🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 4 Author Report Share Posted June 4 8 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Others do and some want them retained as back up. I'm in the camp of being happy to have O'Donnell and McGinn mainly as squad players, but the caveat to that is that they should be on reduced terms. We obviously have no way of knowing that. I wouldn't have brought back Slattery, and I wouldn't bring back Mugabi. if Kettlewell decides that both of them are in his plans, he best hope they perform. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 1 hour ago, David said: By re-signing O'Donnell, McGinn, and possibly Mugabi, we would now have those three, along with Blaney and Casey, under contract. What scope does that leave for significant additions to the defence beyond a couple of loan players? For me of the 5 players you mention only Mugabi would be shown the door, as he's a bombscare. The other 4 had their moments at times when they were poor but generally they were OK, especially McGinn and I thought Blaney after an extended run in the team was improving week on week. If we sign a right back ie the Australian boy then SOD will be a very experienced back up. For me the biggest issue we had was a goal keeper more scared of crosses than Dracula, Kelly inspired no confidence in the defenders in front of him, I lost count of the number of goals we lost due to failing to deal with balls into the box. So we're going to have a new keeper, at the moment it's Oxborough but whether he's no 1 or 2 is anyone's guess, but one who commands his area and ventures off his line will be a vast improvement Let's see who we bring in to improve the defending and midfield before we get stressed about who we've re-signed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 I did see some chat of us being interested in some guy called Kofi Balmer from Crystal Palace. We were linked with him last summer and apparently both St Mirren and ourselves are interested this summer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 13 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: Talking about singing...it's SK's big 40 today......ALTOGETHER NOW.........HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU......🤣🤣🤣 Build the statue 🤣. On a serious note that's over 3000 season tickets sold. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 3 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said: I did see some chat of us being interested in some guy called Kofi Balmer from Crystal Palace. We were linked with him last summer and apparently both St Mirren and ourselves are interested this summer... I thought he played with Annan?.......cue.........🤣🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 2 hours ago, wellgirl said: Why would Kettlewell be under pressure and from where? This is what I struggle with to be honest. On the one hand we have fans who want top six and a good cup run every year (and that's fine) and others who are happy enough if we remain in the top flight. There were points last season where I thought we were in real trouble but things picked up. As far as I'm concerned it all comes down to money. If he had more cash at his disposal he would be able to afford better quality players, that's obvious but he doesn't. That's not me slating our players either. He can only do so much with the budget he has. He did the job he was asked to do two seasons in a row. There are fans who don't want outside investment and fans who would consider it. There are fans saying we don't need outside investment and at the same time unhappy with the players that Kettlewell is signing. I'm just not sure what it is they want him to do. And I think some fans across the board on social media have an issue with Kettlewell full stop. No matter what he does it wouldn't be good enough. As everyone knows we are a club with a small core support, fan owned and it's fair to say that Kettlewell won't have a large transfer budget at his disposal. I'd expect the team not to have many changes with a few signings added in and some loan deals. Particularly when we are competing with other clubs who can offer players more. Paying off two managers in two years hasn't helped either. We won't improve without investment - wherever that comes from. If Kettlewell did go next season the next manager would have exactly the same issues to deal with in my view. Possibly the most sensible and balanced comments I have read on here for months. With the emphasis on balanced. You are spot on regards SK (and others) being targets for some no matter what they do or do not achieve. They have been since the day they signed on. No rationale just an immediate dislike. All you have to do is look at how posters disappear for days on end when their obsessions contribute to a win. Then miraculously reappear busting a gut to sound off the first time a pass or a substitution does not come off. Every one of our players…past and present…has made errors. Same with our Managers. The difference is most fans…but sadly not all….are able and willing to acknowledge when certain employees contribute in a positive way. Also a factor is the refusal of some to accept that being fan owned, although great for the ego and bragging rights, limits the scope Kettlewell has for bringing in players of a better quality. And before anyone jumps in regarding offers extended to those that underperformed last season, I am also disappointed that the entire defence was invited back. I kind of understand it though. The reason being factors that nobody on this forum knows for sure - The terms offered to those players. Since January which players about to be out of contract elsewhere knocked back our early approaches. And others since season end. In the absence of any transfer income, what Budget SK has been given and whether that Budget could attract players of better quality than we currently have. That said, if Miller and/or Bair are sold, then I hope SK will be given a far greater Budget to secure replacements AND improve quality in other areas. But I am dubious about whether he would be adequately funded given the new CEO’s comments about the need to stop operating at a loss. In the absence of transfers out, I understand why we might be limited to loanee signings, perhaps towards the end of the transfer window. None of that hides the fact that other issues and efficiencies within the Club appear to need addressing. The sooner the Barmack situation is put to bed, one way or the other, the better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 4 Author Report Share Posted June 4 14 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: For me of the 5 players you mention only Mugabi would be shown the door, as he's a bombscare. The other 4 had their moments at times when they were poor but generally they were OK, especially McGinn and I thought Blaney after an extended run in the team was improving week on week. Were they okay, though? Really? The results wouldn't really suggest that. Blaney and Casey will stay unless someone comes in with an offer for them, which is unlikely, given our form last season. So they're both here for next season. For me, we should be looking to assess players with a number of criteria in the summer. That including: 1. Are they a sellable asset? Is it worth keeping them with the hope of selling at a profit in a year or two? 2. Are they on an upward trajectory? Or at least maintaining a standard of form that we deem acceptable? Looking at O'Donnell, he clearly doesn't fit the first category. And it's arguable that he's maintaining a standard of form that is acceptable. It could even be claimed he's on a downward trajectory at this stage of his career. At best he could be retained as a squad player and experienced head, but as I said before, his contract would need to reflect that. McGinn is a slightly different proposition in that while he doesn't meet the first category, he has at least maintained a level of form that is acceptable at our level. I would even say he should be our captain heading into next season. Mugabi meets neither of the conditions. If he is re-signed then it should sound some alarm bells. As far as waiting to see who we sign before stressing about who we've re-signed, it's worth noting that by that time, it won't matter. O'Donnell is here for the next two years. If Mugabi re-signs, he'll be here for the next year or two. For a club that consistently bangs on about having a smaller budget, we don't mind throwing money at people who don't really deserve it. Be it underperforming players being re-signed or injured players who will contribute nothing being signed under the category of "doing the right thing." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoBair14 Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/transfer-news-live-celtic-rangers-32898894 How about a new chant for our new defender? Evreybody loves Kofi Balmer 🎶 Tune of Peter Heartly song Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 3 hours ago, TheoBair14 said: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/transfer-news-live-celtic-rangers-32898894 How about a new chant for our new defender? Evreybody loves Kofi Balmer 🎶 Tune of Peter Heartly song If we've paid a fee for him and agreed one St Mirren couldnt I suspect either Bair or Miller are off or both. We cant normally afford any fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 6 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: If we've paid a fee for him and agreed one St Mirren couldnt I suspect either Bair or Miller are off or both. We cant normally afford any fees. Not necessarily. We don't know the details. It could be that St Mirren saw him as a squad player, whereas we see see him as a starter. Who knows? I wouldn't read much into this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 2 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Not necessarily. We don't know the details. It could be that St Mirren saw him as a squad player, whereas we see see him as a starter. Who knows? I wouldn't read much into this. the fee being quoted , admittedly on pie and bovril, is £100,000 if we've paid that one of the two I mentioned is offski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 11 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: If we've paid a fee for him and agreed one St Mirren couldnt I suspect either Bair or Miller are off or both. We cant normally afford any fees. From what I heard we had a "bit" to spend this summer, due to good budgeting and I think we're due some development fees, as well. The fee on P&B of £100k as you say is just rumoured. Could be half that with options or something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 Just now, FirParkCornerExile said: the fee being quoted , admittedly on pie and bovril, is £100,000 if we've paid that one of the two I mentioned is offski. Surely we would need to have money in the bank to be able to afford the fee without having to bank on a player being sold. Personally I think it would be ridiculous moving on either Miller or Bair to pay for a 100k transfer fee. Given how much of an asset Miller is in particular. It's all just speculation at the moment no matter what's being quoted on pie and bov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 6 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Not necessarily. We don't know the details. It could be that St Mirren saw him as a squad player, whereas we see see him as a starter. Who knows? I wouldn't read much into this. Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stv Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 4 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: If we've paid a fee for him and agreed one St Mirren couldnt I suspect either Bair or Miller are off or both. We cant normally afford any fees. He maybe heard good things about the Well and wanted to come here. Like the pitch which encourages the team to play silky passing football or the patient supporters who give all new players two months to bed in before they even think of criticism or the chance to shine and get a big KVV move on the back of one good season or the all you can eat Hup Lee buffet. Who knows but one thing is for sure we cant get rid of the whole team from last season , its fantasy we just can’t afford it , we need to sign some new players and resign others working within the budget and be realistic about our position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 7 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Surely we would need to have money in the bank to be able to afford the fee without having to bank on a player being sold. Personally I think it would be ridiculous moving on either Miller or Bair to pay for a 100k transfer fee. Given how much of an asset Miller is in particular. It's all just speculation at the moment no matter what's being quoted on pie and bov Fees are scheduled to be paid by dates , so not necessary to have the money in the bank at the time the transaction is agreed. St Pauli apparently interested in Bair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 4 Report Share Posted June 4 Just now, FirParkCornerExile said: Fees are scheduled to be paid by dates , so not necessary to have the money in the bank at the time the transaction is agreed. St Pauli apparently interested in Bair Ok. No idea what anyone is potentially offering for Bair either - not really looked the last few days. (up to eyeballs in uni work and dealing with this broken leg). Id hope we would keep Bair but it's obviously down to what another club might offer for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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