Motherwell v Celtic 25/02/2024

[mfc]

9 minutes ago, wellfan said:

As I said during the game and in a post above, Butcher should not have replaced Casey. It completely fucked the defence, and it was downhill from there with the other subs. 

We shuffled the defence about to much today and it cost us.the left side is a real concern also,we're asking gent to do a lot up and down that side but we have nothing to replace him with when he runs out of gas.butcher may benefit from a break then a pre season but it shouldn't be with us,the guy has looked done since his injury.

[Motherwellfc1991]

Same issues different day. Another defeat another managerial masterclass another poor transfer window. 

Macgregor given the freedom of Fir Park this afternoon in the 2nd half  by a combination of a naive Lennon Miller , a naive manager and an incredibly lazy centre forward in Theo Bair. Yep it’s a tough shift up there but at least put yourself about - his 2nd half contribution and effort was woeful - maybe he was knackered but if so he should have been taken off with 25 to go. 
 

And a  side note for the god that is Blair spital . Great goal again but does he really think lambasting his team mates mistakes is going to help them - did it constantly today and it won’t help the younger players. Funny how he says nothing when he gives the ball away or kids on he gets caught wrong side. 
 

Sadly the club is in an absolute mess from top to bottom and Wednesday night is crucial to everyone apart from Kettlewell who has a job for life based on his win ratio and contract extension 

[Ya Bezzer!]

2 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Read my post above. Mugabi was doing fine in the centre of the back three, as was McGinn at the right of the back three. But, to accommodate Butcher, who has been poor for a while now, both had to switch, which unsettled the defence. Blaney should've been on at that point to keep it settled, be he shit or not. The rot set in with that defensive change anyway, so the rest is ultimately inconsequential.

I don't necessarily disagree with the tactical element of what you say but it also seems like a big slice of what-might-have-been.

We were under almost constant siege for the second half, certainly the last half an hour, most of our players were done after the 70th minute.

It's a big, big, downer to lose the match like we did but like I said giving Celtic basically 45 minutes to score a winner was a bigger issue because after that happened we were always going to get deeper, more tired, less concentrated and I'm not sure different personnel or set up would have made that much difference.

Not the first time this has happened, we are probably all veterans of it, hence my belief that Celtic having the ball in our half for pretty much the whole half had more to do with it than individual players or set up.

Also let's not forget that Maeda missed probably the sitter of the season before any of this happened.

[gaz7]

6 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Read my post above. Mugabi was doing fine in the centre of the back three, as was McGinn at the right of the back three. But, to accommodate Butcher, who has been poor for a while now, both had to switch, which unsettled the defence. Blaney should've been on at that point to keep it settled, be he shit or not. The rot set in with that defensive change anyway, so the rest is ultimately inconsequential.

100%  correct mate. Blaney straight swap for casey. But his changes to accommodate butcher had our back 3 all over place. Kettlewell has us playing some decent stuff at times but that today is on him.

Raging as they aren’t that good certainly worst celtic team in yeard but they still beat us.

[Inflato]

4 minutes ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

Same issues different day. Another defeat another managerial masterclass another poor transfer window. 

Macgregor given the freedom of Fir Park this afternoon in the 2nd half  by a combination of a naive Lennon Miller , a naive manager and an incredibly lazy centre forward in Theo Bair. Yep it’s a tough shift up there but at least put yourself about - his 2nd half contribution and effort was woeful - maybe he was knackered but if so he should have been taken off with 25 to go. 
 

And a  side note for the god that is Blair spital . Great goal again but does he really think lambasting his team mates mistakes is going to help them - did it constantly today and it won’t help the younger players. Funny how he says nothing when he gives the ball away or kids on he gets caught wrong side. 
 

Sadly the club is in an absolute mess from top to bottom and Wednesday night is crucial to everyone apart from Kettlewell who has a job for life based on his win ratio and contract extension 

Did you step on some lego this morning?

[purestate]

SK post match said they worked on covering the moves which led to Celtic goal and sounded pretty frustrated but he should know how immobile Butcher is, how McGinn is nowhere near as comfortable on left and general capability of players to play positions. 
I agree with others that Blaney should have replaced Casey which would have been less disruptive and then Butcher could have been a more defensive midfield option and Nicholson could have tried to play the Vale role.  

 

[wellsince75]

15 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I'd be happier with 3 or 4.

Most weeks we are competing against teams with bigger budgets, in some cases much bigger budgets, but I think the general effort and application is OK.

 

BTW, 

Aberdeen have 1 win in 9.

Hibs have 1 win in 9.

Livingston have 1 win in 19.

Ross County have 1 win in 11.

St. Johnstone have 1 win in 10.

Know why?  Cos there is so many draws in this league.

Completely with you.   Lots of teams have poor runs of form  

Personally I dislike references to the 2 wins in 23 games, conveniently ignoring we've played 27 and won 5 or heaven forbid only lost 11. 

We'd all like to have won more, we'd all like to win more games against the OF. 

Today we ran out of puff and they have a player depth that only the OF can match. 

We're still 9th and that position would do us just nicely come the end of season. 

[Great Balls of Shire]

9 minutes ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

Same issues different day. Another defeat another managerial masterclass another poor transfer window. 

Macgregor given the freedom of Fir Park this afternoon in the 2nd half  by a combination of a naive Lennon Miller , a naive manager and an incredibly lazy centre forward in Theo Bair. Yep it’s a tough shift up there but at least put yourself about - his 2nd half contribution and effort was woeful - maybe he was knackered but if so he should have been taken off with 25 to go. 
 

And a  side note for the god that is Blair spital . Great goal again but does he really think lambasting his team mates mistakes is going to help them - did it constantly today and it won’t help the younger players. Funny how he says nothing when he gives the ball away or kids on he gets caught wrong side. 
 

Sadly the club is in an absolute mess from top to bottom and Wednesday night is crucial to everyone apart from Kettlewell who has a job for life based on his win ratio and contract extension 

Steelboy is back under a different name.....bair is lazy, that's crazy talk

[purestate]

1 minute ago, wellsince75 said:

Completely with you.   Lots of teams have poor runs of form  

Personally I dislike references to the 2 wins in 23 games, conveniently ignoring we've played 27 and won 5 or heaven forbid only lost 11. 

We'd all like to have won more, we'd all like to win more games against the OF. 


 

Yes, and it’s the extra draws/games we didn’t lose that have us above StJ and RC and will likely make the difference in the final placings. 
 

I think there’s some in here who are probably happier we lost today rather than have another draw. 

[Inflato]

2 minutes ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

Steelboy is back under a different name.....bair is lazy, that's crazy talk

🤣

Steelboy wouldn't include "1991" in his alter-ego name... We were shite that year and fluked a cup win only because Celtic were shite and Davie Syme was a homer.

[Motherwellfc1991]

Watch it back 2nd half he was caught on his heels every time we tried to relive any pressure he wasn’t even 2nd to the ball. As I stated he may have been knackered but his lack of running allowed Celtic to advance 40/50 yards time and time again . Look at the size of him - put yourself about . Made John Sutton look fit and agile in that 2nd half . Defence under immense pressure we clear our lines and he is stood static - even my pal Blair Spittal had a pop at him. 
 

I forgot this forum was for happy clappy only don’t dare criticise the establishment. 
 

[Inflato]

2 minutes ago, Motherwellfc1991 said:

... I forgot this forum was for happy clappy only don’t dare criticise the establishment. 
 

You're right mate, this place is loaded with happy clappers... Hardly ever see any criticism of anyone or anything.

[MJC]

1 hour ago, robsterwood said:

Usual crap. Bring on investors soon. 

Investors won’t change our gutless mentality and inability to stop shooting ourselves in the foot in games like these.
 

I’ve seen it too many times now with too many managers and too many players. If Celtic or Rangers aren’t pumping us soundly under their own steam then we throw them a helping hand.
 

Its a mentality issue that runs deep within the club. Even when Spittal put us 1-0 up today I actually barely celebrated and indeed I thought those around me seemed quite subdued in their celebrations too. For me certainly it was just that knowing that it was only going to end the way it did and I couldn’t enjoy the moment as much as I should have done. It’s all just so infuriatingly predictable.

[wellgirl]

5 minutes ago, Inflato said:

You're right mate, this place is loaded with happy clappers... Hardly ever see any criticism of anyone or anything.

😂😂😂. You said it better than I would have. 

[Benson]

4 minutes ago, MJC said:

Investors won’t change our gutless mentality and inability to stop shooting ourselves in the foot in games like these.
 

I’ve seen it too many times now with too many managers and too many players. If Celtic or Rangers aren’t pumping us soundly under their own steam then we throw them a helping hand.
 

Its a mentality issue that runs deep within the club. Even when Spittal put us 1-0 up today I actually barely celebrated and indeed I thought those around me seemed quite subdued in their celebrations too. For me certainly it was just that knowing that it was only going to end the way it did and I couldn’t enjoy the moment as much as I should have done. It’s all just so infuriatingly predictable.

Gutless mentality, a club on a shoestring budget that's never been relegated yet, not like hibs,Dundee,Dundee utd,St mirren,

[texanwellfan]

Some fair comments re perhaps doing Blaney for Casey. But then who for Gent? Oh and whereever McGinn would have been positioned, right left or middle he was also completely knackered!! 

[Great Balls of Shire]

5 minutes ago, Benson said:

Gutless mentality, a club on a shoestring budget that's never been relegated yet, not like hibs,Dundee,Dundee utd,St mirren,

Usual hyperbole from yer man, weak mentally but not gutless,for 90 mins we were great and then we switch off

[MJC]

3 minutes ago, Benson said:

Gutless mentality, a club on a shoestring budget that's never been relegated yet, not like hibs,Dundee,Dundee utd,St mirren,

Yes a gutless mentality and it’s been growing and festering for over twenty years now.

”we’re punching above our weight”

”we don’t expect anything against the Old firm”

”These games don’t matter because of the difference in budgets”

All quotes that have been doing the rounds since the early 00s and lo and behold that corresponds with our worst ever run of results against both OF sides all while the four clubs you mention and more have beaten them more than once during that same period regardless of whether they have been relegated or not.

And let me be clear here so that no one misunderstands this. I am not for one second suggesting that I would want to see us relegated if it meant we beat Celtic or Rangers every once in a while, but the two aren’t mutually exclusive. I would just like to see our mentality as a club improve.

[Ya Bezzer!]

13 minutes ago, MJC said:

Investors won’t change our gutless mentality and inability to stop shooting ourselves in the foot in games like these.
 

I’ve seen it too many times now with too many managers and too many players. If Celtic or Rangers aren’t pumping us soundly under their own steam then we throw them a helping hand.
 

Its a mentality issue that runs deep within the club. Even when Spittal put us 1-0 up today I actually barely celebrated and indeed I thought those around me seemed quite subdued in their celebrations too. For me certainly it was just that knowing that it was only going to end the way it did and I couldn’t enjoy the moment as much as I should have done. It’s all just so infuriatingly predictable.

Every Celtic player is better than our equivalent.

To compete in the game we have to make up with that with sheer workrate - which we did.

This however leaves you vulnerable in the latter stages of the game when stamina and mental fatigue become factors.

That's what happened today, it's what's happened many times in the past.

If it was mentality we wouldn't be holding out to 94th or 97th minute or indeed getting a late draw at Celtic Park earlier in the season.

People just need to get a grip.  Obviously it's gutting to lose like this but we don't need the finger pointing and vitriol.

How about maybe, just maybe, giving the team a slap on the back for competing against a team who's wages bill for their subs today is more than our entire club budget.

 

[wellfan]

3 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

Some fair comments re perhaps doing Blaney for Casey. But then who for Gent? Oh and whereever McGinn would have been positioned, right left or middle he was also completely knackered!! 

Montgomery would’ve been a good option for Gent, but he's injured, unfortunately, or Buyabu…oh wait. 

On the right, Elliot would've been a good option, but we’ve signed a player who isn't match fit. Brilliant. 

And another centre half should have been a January window priority. Instead, we got Shaw. 

The manager and fans can blame the weak bench options for today, but the manager has had two transfer windows to address things. 

[MJC]

Just now, Ya Bezzer! said:

Every Celtic player is better than our equivalent.

To compete in the game we have to make up with that with sheer workrate - which we did.

This however leaves you vulnerable in the latter stages of the game when stamina and mental fatigue become factors.

That's what happened today, it's what's happened many times in the past.

If it was mentality we wouldn't be holding out to 94th or 97th minute or indeed getting a late draw at Celtic Park earlier in the season.

People just need to get a grip.  Obviously it's gutting to lose like this but we don't need the finger pointing and vitriol.

How about maybe, just maybe, giving the team a slap on the back for competing against a team who's wages bill for their subs today is more than our entire club budget.

 

Talk about straight out of the happy clappers manual.

The game lasts as long as it does until the final whistle. And over the years I’ve seen us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory too often in these scenarios.

2-0 and 3-2 up against Celtic a few years back, lose with the last kick of the ball.

1-0 up at Ibrox with five minutes to go in the Scottish Cup. Lose 2-1 with two late goals.

Score a stoppage time equaliser against Celtic. Still lose the game.

Beating Rangers 2-1 at Fir Park and totally comfortable. Stevie Woods gifts them an equaliser and lose the replay.

Comfortable against Rangers in a Semi Final at Hampden. Craigan loses Naismith in the last minute. Lose the game.

Likewise against Celtic at Hampden in a semi. Corrigan pass backs to Graeme Smith last minute, they score they win.

Get a last minute penalty against Rangers when 0-0. Miss it.

I could go on but you get my drift.

[Benson]

10 minutes ago, MJC said:

Yes a gutless mentality and it’s been growing and festering for over twenty years now.

”we’re punching above our weight”

”we don’t expect anything against the Old firm”

”These games don’t matter because of the difference in budgets”

All quotes that have been doing the rounds since the early 00s and lo and behold that corresponds with our worst ever run of results against both OF sides all while the four clubs you mention and more have beaten them more than once during that same period regardless of whether they have been relegated or not.

And let me be clear here so that no one misunderstands this. I am not for one second suggesting that I would want to see us relegated if it meant we beat Celtic or Rangers every once in a while, but the two aren’t mutually exclusive. I would just like to see our mentality as a club improve.

Early 00s does that include europa league qualifiers,champions league qualifier,league Cup finalists,Scottish Cup finalists and still never been relegated with a club that shops In poundland and has ave 5000 through its gates,give yerself a shake man,and beating the old firm doesn't keep you in the league,ask the clubs chairman who've been relegated what they'd prefer,beating old firm now and again or staying,yer brains frazzled.

[bobbybingo]

12 minutes ago, MJC said:

Talk about straight out of the happy clappers manual.

The game lasts as long as it does until the final whistle. And over the years I’ve seen us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory too often in these scenarios.

2-0 and 3-2 up against Celtic a few years back, lose with the last kick of the ball.

1-0 up at Ibrox with five minutes to go in the Scottish Cup. Lose 2-1 with two late goals.

Score a stoppage time equaliser against Celtic. Still lose the game.

Beating Rangers 2-1 at Fir Park and totally comfortable. Stevie Woods gifts them an equaliser and lose the replay.

Comfortable against Rangers in a Semi Final at Hampden. Craigan loses Naismith in the last minute. Lose the game.

Likewise against Celtic at Hampden in a semi. Corrigan pass backs to Graeme Smith last minute, they score they win.

Get a last minute penalty against Rangers when 0-0. Miss it.

I could go on but you get my drift.

You're a bloody Jonah.

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 minute ago, MJC said:

Talk about straight out of the happy clappers manual.

The game lasts as long as it does until the final whistle. And over the years I’ve seen us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory too often in these scenarios.

2-0 and 3-2 up against Celtic a few years back, lose with the last kick of the ball.

1-0 up at Ibrox with five minutes to go in the Scottish Cup. Lose 2-1 with two late goals.

Score a stoppage time equaliser against Celtic. Still lose the game.

Beating Rangers 2-1 at Fir Park and totally comfortable. Stevie Woods gifts them an equaliser and lose the replay.

Comfortable against Rangers in a Semi Final at Hampden. Craigan loses Naismith in the last minute. Lose the game.

Likewise against Celtic at Hampden in a semi. Corrigan pass backs to Graeme Smith last minute, they score they win.

Get a last minute penalty against Rangers when 0-0. Miss it.

I could go on but you get my drift.

Rangers and Celtic are much better than us.  Hence we don't beat them much. It's why no one else has won the league since 1985 and the entire history of Scottish football has been dominated by them.

However I do remember some like pumping Rangers in the playoff 6-1 or the semi final win with Moult's wonder goal or a bunch of draws in recent times at Fir Park, Celtic Park and Ibrox or the semi final win on the way to the '91 win or Tommy Coyne scoring a header in a gale in the Scottish Cup or a bunch of other times.  Maybe you should remember some of the good times as well.

And of all the posters here I don't think I'm one that can be accused of being a happy clapper. 

I just think Motherwell fans should be fair, have realistic views and maybe have the self awareness of recognising where we are in the game.  

Putting in a good effort against a team with x 25 our resources and losing out narrowly ain't the worst thing in the world.

[Benson]

17 minutes ago, Wee Dougie said:

Tremendous application from the team today, but unfortunately ran out of steam in the second half. Could have been 2 or 3 goals up, but for some bad luck and dodgy lines. Thought Vale put in a shift should have scored and was the subject of some heavy tackles which went unpunished. Contrary to Mr Miserable, thought the crowd were excellent and right behind the team, so to say nobody celebrated our wonderful Spittal strike, is just his usual Pish. Onto the next game on the crap astro. Top 6 probably gone but let's get the season completed and hopefully next one can push on. 

Well said