Kmcalpin Posted February 26 Author Report Share Posted February 26 7 hours ago, wellgirl said: I didn't actually know that. I just paid the fiver as it was all I could afford and they must have added the low income option after I joined. That's fair enough though. I can afford the fiver and I'll get my mum signed up tomorrow. Well done. Bear in mind too that my figure of £35 is an underestimate as quite a few of of our 3,800 members will be minors paying a lot less than £10 a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 26 Author Report Share Posted February 26 Apologies now being told that monthly subscriptions have to be in £5 levels as per the website. £5 £10 £25 £50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_said Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 14 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: The Well Society currently own 70% of the club. We could sell 19% to an investor and retain majority shareholding to generate some revenue if the St Mirren model is so attractive..... Would it not be up to the people who own the 19% of shares wether they wanted to sell their shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, well_said said: Would it not be up to the people who own the 19% of shares wether they wanted to sell their shares. No, it's not about selling shares here (for now, anyway; that may change based on what any investor decides to do with their final offer, if we ever get that far), it's about how much the investor puts in to the club to effectively dilute the value of the other group/individual shareholding. So for example, I've got my own, privately held ordinary shares right now; those are worth a (very small) share of the club. When an investor comes in, they will essentially purchase shares in the club that dilute mine down to a lower share than they currently represent; that, I assume, will also be the case with the Society shareholding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 20 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: No, it's not about selling shares here (for now, anyway; that may change based on what any investor decides to do with their final offer), it's about how much the investor puts in to the club to effectively dilute the value of the other group/individual shareholding. So for example, I've got my own, privately held ordinary shares right now; those are worth a (very small) share of the club. When an investor comes in, they will essentially purchase shares in the club that dilute mine down to a lower share than they currently represent; that, I assume, will also be the case with the Society shareholding. Why would the Society agree to wipe out the value of it's shareholding for no return? That's giving the club including millions in assets away for absolutely nothing to a foreign entity. Madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wishielad Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 17 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: I don't doubt you're right. However, is Kibble not a charity? Kibble is a charity supporting kids at the margins and at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 17 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: And do Kibble gift them this money, or does it require to be paid back in the form of a soft loan? Kibble fund certain areas of the Club in return for the benefits those areas can provide the kids Kibble look after. Think transport, training and gym facilities, physical and mental heath support and the like. All of this supports the kids and the football club/players. .They can also justify providing funding as those same kids regularly gain work experience within the Club. It is a win win situation and does support the football club financially, but not technically by charitable donations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 4 hours ago, well_said said: Would it not be up to the people who own the 19% of shares wether they wanted to sell their shares. No. It would be up to the Society as a whole to vote on the matter. The Society owns the shares not the individual. We are all "members" of the Society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, dennyc said: Kibble fund certain areas of the Club in return for the benefits those areas can provide the kids Kibble look after. Think transport, training and gym facilities, physical and mental heath support and the like. All of this supports the kids and the football club/players. .They can also justify providing funding as those same kids regularly gain work experience within the Club. It is a win win situation and does support the football club financially, but not technically by charitable donations. Sounds like the kind of thing that would sit well with the Well Society ethos..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_said Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: No. It would be up to the Society as a whole to vote on the matter. The Society owns the shares not the individual. We are all "members" of the Society. It was the 19% I was referring to , surely that's got nothing to do with the well society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 Just now, well_said said: It was the 19% I was referring to , surely that's got nothing to do with the well society? The Well Society own 70% of the club. To maintain a majority shareholding obviously requires 51% So the Society could sell 19% of its shareholding to an interested party and still maintain control of the club. Investors could of course try to buy up the other 30% of shares that are in private hands. The Society would have no control over that, but they dont have to. That money wouldnt go into the club though. It would go into the pockets of the individual shareholders. The club could obviously hold a share issue to generate money as other clubs have done, but I couldnt comment on how that would work or the pro's and cons of that...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said: The Well Society own 70% of the club. To maintain a majority shareholding obviously requires 51% So the Society could sell 19% of its shareholding to an interested party and still maintain control of the club. Investors could of course try to buy up the other 30% of shares that are in private hands. The Society would have no control over that, but they dont have to. That money wouldnt go into the club though. It would go into the pockets of the individual shareholders. The club could obviously hold a share issue to generate money as other clubs have done, but I couldnt comment on how that would work or the pro's and cons of that...... The planned investments will be made, as far as I'm aware, in the purchase of additional shares (i.e. adding monetary value to the club) and by diluting, in percentage terms, the holding of both the Society and any private shareholders such as myself. The Society won't be diluting its shareholding by selling off some of its own, it'll have its shareholding diluted by the investor purchasing their own shares of the club. So the Society will still hold the same number of shares, that will just be a lower overall % of the total number of shares held in the club. Someone else can clarify here but no one is being asked to "sell" their shares as part of any of the current terms that have been discussed. Again, those terms could change based on any best and final offers which are/aren't made if negotiations continue to that stage with any party/parties (Also should we not be having this chat in the investment options thread this is about Sir Stuart of Kettlewell) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 26 Author Report Share Posted February 26 In answer to StAndrew7 on the Stuart Kettlewell thread, I agree we're not being asked to sell our shares. Any new investment, should it go ahead, would involve the party buying newly issued shares. As far as I know, no existing shareholder, be it the Society or small individuals like myself, would be asked to sell. However our percentage shareholding would be diluted i.e. 1.5 million shares out of 2.1 million issued currently = 71% but 1.5 million shares out of say 3.5million = 43%. (These figures are just illustrative). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 22 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: I think it depends on how you define "Can compete". Does it mean: A remain in the Premiership..just B drop to Championship with an occasional foray to the Premiership C settle in the Championship like Morton or Ayr. With insufficient investment....from whatever source......does A not lead to B then C and even beyond until a sustainable level is reached. Clearly I would not expect to go beyond Championship level, but I bet Dunfermline fans thought the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 10 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: In answer to StAndrew7 on the Stuart Kettlewell thread, I agree we're not being asked to sell our shares. Any new investment, should it go ahead, would involve the party buying newly issued shares. As far as I know, no existing shareholder, be it the Society or small individuals like myself, would be asked to sell. However our percentage shareholding would be diluted i.e. 1.5 million shares out of 2.1 million issued currently = 71% but 1.5 million shares out of say 3.5million = 43%. (These figures are just illustrative). Posted 11 minutes ago That's how other Clubs have raised finance. Issuing new shares with funds flowing to the Club rather than existing share holders. fairly common and a legit practice. Those new shares can sometimes have terms which differentiate them from Ordinary shares. Preference as a common example which take priority if the worst happens, or are head of the queue regards dividends. The net effect can be that shares held by others are reduced in overall %. Not in the know but I would imagine that is the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said: Sounds like the kind of thing that would sit well with the Well Society ethos..... Already does with the links with the MFC Community Trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 6 minutes ago, santheman said: Already does with the links with the MFC Community Trust. The Community Trust does lots of wonderful and essential work. But I think the difference in Paisley is that funds flow into St Mirren from Kibble thus reducing overall Club expenditure. If I am wrong please correct me, but I don't think the MFC CT provides funding to the football Club. Not dissing them in any way, far from it, but I think it is a different set up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, StAndrew7 said: The planned investments will be made, as far as I'm aware, in the purchase of additional shares (i.e. adding monetary value to the club) and by diluting, in percentage terms, the holding of both the Society and any private shareholders such as myself. The Society won't be diluting its shareholding by selling off some of its own, it'll have its shareholding diluted by the investor purchasing their own shares of the club. So the Society will still hold the same number of shares, that will just be a lower overall % of the total number of shares held in the club. Someone else can clarify here but no one is being asked to "sell" their shares as part of any of the current terms that have been discussed. Again, those terms could change based on any best and final offers which are/aren't made if negotiations continue to that stage with any party/parties (Also should we not be having this chat in the investment options thread this is about Sir Stuart of Kettlewell) That would make sense, with the revenue going into the club. And yes, happy to move the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 33 minutes ago, dennyc said: The Community Trust does lots of wonderful and essential work. But I think the difference in Paisley is that funds flow into St Mirren from Kibble thus reducing overall Club expenditure. If I am wrong please correct me, but I don't think the MFC CT provides funding to the football Club. Not dissing them in any way, far from it, but I think it is a different set up. No they don't provide any funding to the football club but what I meant was that they do much the same Community based things that Kibble do for St Mirren. I know that many of the ball boys and catering kiosk staff at the Midden are all "Kibble kids" and their football academy is part funded by them in return for some of their kids accessing their facilities. How much that actually amounts to in £'s I've no idea but don't think it will be a fortune. Anyway probably not the correct thread for this so apologies to anyone looking in expecting posts about our manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villageman Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 On 2/25/2024 at 12:32 PM, Villageman said: Probably prepared to double it, triple it not so sure. Would need some more info first. Current level of member, how many members contribute monthly pledges. total monthly income. that way we can say what average payment is. I appreciate early days members paid a lump sum to join, they may or may not continue with monthly payments. Quick update. Following the latest club I have requested this information from them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted February 27 Author Report Share Posted February 27 Did every Society member receive an email about Zoom sessions this coming Sunday? A positive step forward and I just hope sufficient members show an interest and take part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzlyg Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 21 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Did every Society member receive an email about Zoom sessions this coming Sunday? A positive step forward and I just hope sufficient members show an interest and take part. Yup got the email, sounds good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 On 2/24/2024 at 12:32 PM, mfc said: So we should take any investment going and spend like crazy but if we go bust it's ok cause we can come back as some tinpot outfit playing in public parks. That’s not what he said. I’m afraid that’s typical of too many posters coming on here and putting their own spin on others’ remarks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, El Grew said: That’s not what he said. I’m afraid that’s typical of too many posters coming on here and putting their own spin on others’ remarks. Like you have just done with mine then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 Someone's just posted the results of the vote on pie and bov. The vote went in favour of fans considering voting in support of the society losing it's majority share. Email been sent to members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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