steelboy Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 This full thing is a piss take but the biggest part is reducing the value of the club due to the debt. Somehow the debt owed to the Well Society reduces the value of the club by the full amount even if half of it is later forgiven. And the Scottish government loan which is interest free and paid over 20 years is deducted from the value at it's current outstanding amount even although the payments we make in the 2030s will be relatively far smaller due to inflation. Desperate and pathetic stuff from McMahon and Dickie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 1 minute ago, steelboy said: This full thing is a piss take but the biggest part is reducing the value of the club due to the debt. Somehow the debt owed to the Well Society reduces the value of the club by the full amount even if half of it is later forgiven. And the Scottish government loan which is interest free and paid over 20 years is deducted from the value at it's current outstanding amount even although the payments we make in the 2030s will be relatively far smaller due to inflation. Desperate and pathetic stuff from McMahon and Dickie. Aye it's appalling maths/economics all round. It's pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 Also, for those asking for the Well Society's business plan/model etc. I do hope you're expecting the same from Barmack? There' is absolutely no mention of a business plan detailing his plans for returns, cash flow, additional investors or how it's going to provide a return. If McMahon really does think he's going to convince people to vote for this based on what's on the website, he's deluded. I'll be sending a comprehensive request for information to the e-mail address provided in the coming days, just to try and understand exactly what is being proposed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benson Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 23 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Don't think I said anything to the effect anywhere that I thought the club should be handed over for a pittance. All I said was I'd make my mind up when I get a chance to read it more closely and I'd make my own mind up. As I said in my last post I'm currently in hospital and dealing with other things as well and haven't had time to look at it properly. 5 million for Miller, nae bother,one full season in spfl,how many goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 4 minutes ago, Benson said: 5 million for Miller, nae bother,one full season in spfl,how many goals? It wasn't me that said that. I quoted someone who did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mccus28 Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 Im not sure how Motherwell are in such a bad way that we need outside investment when there are such titans of the financial industry on this forum. Lets make our mind up when we see what the WS have to offer against this offer. Granted, on the face of it, in financial terms this offer doesn't seem mind blowing but is speculative and without doubt would open more doors than the WS in regards outward investment and opportunities to increase revenue streams. Fan ownership for me is a good thing but not if we stagnate as we have and in some degree we have gone backwards and now can't compete with our rivals. The WS in its current guise isn't fit for purpose, that much is clear but I do understand they are trying to change and I will make my mind up when both proposals are head to head and there are more details. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 Forgetting the Barmack insult offer it's important to look at the Well Society side of things. Despite losing majority control and going from 71% to 46% the Society is being asked to put in £1.85 million which conveniently enough is close to the total amount of cash at hand combined with the money owed to it by MFC. So in 6 years time when Barmack is free to sell up the Well Society will be totally skint and a total non factor in any future takeovers. I'd say it's very revealing that McMahon and Dickie's plan basically involves liquidating the Society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 2 minutes ago, steelboy said: I'd say it's very revealing that McMahon and Dickie's plan basically involves liquidating the Society. That very much looks to be the case here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 7 minutes ago, Mccus28 said: Im not sure how Motherwell are in such a bad way that we need outside investment when there are such titans of the financial industry on this forum. Lets make our mind up when we see what the WS have to offer against this offer. They don't need to offer anything right now to know this was a terrible deal that was presented. Doing nothing different this year is still better than accepting what The Sheep has to offer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, Richie said: Erik Barmack is currently fielding questions on Pie and Bovril (Assuming it isn't an elaborate wind-up) Yep, it's pretty interesting to follow the dialogue, but it's still a shite deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villageman Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 (edited) Making a little comment and may or may have been missed in the financial discussions. As of January this the WS stated that pledging members contributed £180k per annum. I have been a pledging member since 2015 I think. If this proposal gets voted through then my direct debit is immediately cancelled. How many more of the 1500 or so members feel same as I do ?. Definitely potential to make a big difference financially to the WS, Club and reduces the 300k investment substantially. It was also stated back in January that the average monthly pledge was £10 per month from around 1500 members. Tripling that average would generate £360 exceeding the investment proposal. There could be up to 2000 WS members not pledging ( I am aware that many of them paid a lump sum early days) Am I being naive in thinking a combination of these suggestions matches what is known facts about the proposal. Edited June 10 by Villageman missed word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 4 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said: The Well Society have £750,000 and in 6 years time they can buy back for £650,000, so can they not take back control at that point. Apologies I've not looked in detail yet. If I've read it correctly, the buy back option only runs till the end of year 2 - £650K being 2 years investment plus costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 I'll give tbe guy kudos for going on P&B and fielding all the questions the way he has as he didn't have to do that but still more questions than answers for me. I await the WS counter proposal with bated breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 4 minutes ago, santheman said: I await the WS counter proposal with bated breath. It's not a counter proposal ffs. It's just a new plan. As someone said on P&B the onus for generating new revenue should be on the people working full time at Fir Park who are professionals in those areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 6 minutes ago, santheman said: I'll give tbe guy kudos for going on P&B and fielding all the questions the way he has as he didn't have to do that but still more questions than answers for me. I await the WS counter proposal with bated breath. some of the responses I've see on twitter to him are disgusting , "fuck off " and "Fuck your offer" are really mutant material. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted June 10 Author Report Share Posted June 10 59 minutes ago, Mccus28 said: The WS in its current guise isn't fit for purpose, that much is clear but I do understand they are trying to change and I will make my mind up when both proposals are head to head and there are more details. Agreed. I have not read the external investment proposal in detail yet. However, I do have concerns. I'm going to digest it in more depth in the coming weeks. It transpires that the Society Boards vote was not unanimous, being 6-3. I would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind those 3 members voting yes. They must have some justification. The Society now needs to finalise and publish its proposal, as promised. When it does that I'll make up my mind. One thing is for sure, simply trying to increase membership, although admirable, is no solution. A final plea. Please keep the online discussion respectful. We've already seen some "poor" posts on P & B and on X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 5 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Agreed. I have not read the external investment proposal indetail yet. However, I do have concerns. I'm going to digest it in more depth in the coming weeks. It transpires that the Society Boards vote was not unanimous, being 6-3. I would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind those 3 members voting yes. They must have some justification. The Society now needs to finalise and publish its proposal, as promised. When it does that I'll make up my mind. One thing is for sure, simply trying to increase membership, although admirable, is no solution. A final plea. Please keep the online discussion respectful. We've already seen some "poor" posts on P & B and on X. Yeah. The guy doesn't deserve abuse whether people are unhappy or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 So when are we expecting Tom Feeley to resign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted June 10 Author Report Share Posted June 10 One issue that's baffling me, is the substantial reference to the Society in the external proposal. Surely the Society would have been actively involved in discussing this, despite previous comments to the contrary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 Just now, Kmcalpin said: One issue that's baffling me, is the substantial reference to the Society in the external proposal. Surely the Society would have been actively involved in discussing this, despite previous comments to the contrary? Feeley and Dickie were involved all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 40 minutes ago, Villageman said: I have been a pledging member since 2015 I think. If this proposal gets voted through then my direct debit is immediately cancelled. How many more of the 1500 or so members feel same as I do ?. Definitely potential to make a big difference financially to the WS, Club and reduces the 300k investment substantially. I said earlier that if the Society lost control I would cancel my direct debit, because there is no way I want to line the pockets of a new investor either now or when they inevitably sell up. That would still be the case for me now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted June 10 Author Report Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, steelboy said: Douglas Dickie has already left the Society board now that his attempts to screw us over have failed. Where did you see this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 Just now, Kmcalpin said: Where did you see this? It's on social media Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 6 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Where did you see this? The Well Society twitter account announced it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mio Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 51 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: some of the responses I've see on twitter to him are disgusting , "fuck off " and "Fuck your offer" are really mutant material. I Agree, they are an utter embarrassment to Motherwell and Scottish people as a whole. Absolute keyboard warrior bangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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