New Investment Options

[StAndrew7]

54 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

some of the responses I've see on twitter to him are disgusting , "fuck off " and "Fuck your offer" are really mutant material. 

Aye, it's abhorrent stuff.

[Casagolda]

The board of the society voted 6-3 against the proposal.

Should this even go to a ballot of members. My reading of the board statement says the deal breaches several of the Objects of the Society.

And will the voting require a 2/3rds majority as set out in the rules

https://mutuals.fca.org.uk/Search/Society/12455

and those rules state that even a 2/3rds vote does not require the board to break the rules of the society.

 

It is clear this deal goes against many of the Objects of the Society so have the Board of the Society got legal advice to ask if this vote is even legal without amendment to the rules of the Society?

[santheman]

56 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

some of the responses I've see on twitter to him are disgusting , "fuck off " and "Fuck your offer" are really mutant material. 

I'm not on twitter for that exact reason.

It's actually quite a reasonable debate on P&B with one or two exceptions. 

 

[stv]

1 hour ago, FirParkCornerExile said:

some of the responses I've see on twitter to him are disgusting , "fuck off " and "Fuck your offer" are really mutant material. 

Welcome to Scottish football, wait til he sees it on a Saturday.

[steelboy]

I still can't believe that McMahon and Barmack are proposing that the Well Society pays £1.8 million to give away over 1/3rd of our shareholding.

At their fake valuation of the club that's a £2.8m reduction in Well Society assets. 

The KLF only burned 1 million quid. They've got nothing on Tom Feeley.

 

[Spit_It_Out]

It is embarrassing the guy is on a forum answering questions constructively as he can to have utter morons abuse him didn’t have too but at least trying to shine light on some stuff.

I hope the Well Society have a plan of all plans to take us forward then or god help them looking at todays findings I wish them good luck.

[Kmcalpin]

57 minutes ago, steelboy said:

Feeley and Dickie were involved all the way.

They might well have been, but surely they kept other Society board members informed? Given the Society's public response, you'd think Messrs Dickie and Feeley were given other board members' responses to feed back into the official negotiations no? How did the Society board let things go this far if they were totally opposed to the details we've been given? It doesn't make sense. 

[wellgirl]

4 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

It is embarrassing the guy is on a forum answering questions constructively as he can to have utter morons abuse him didn’t have too but at least trying to shine light on some stuff.

I hope the Well Society have a plan of all plans to take us forward then or god help them looking at todays findings I wish them good luck.

Aye. Folk calling him names while the discussion which he's part of is taking place. 

[weeyin]

4 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

It is embarrassing the guy is on a forum answering questions constructively as he can to have utter morons abuse him didn’t have too but at least trying to shine light on some stuff.

I hope the Well Society have a plan of all plans to take us forward then or god help them looking at todays findings I wish them good luck.

I agree it's embarrassing, but at least he works in a field where he should at least be familiar with the trolls, morons and eejits on social media. 

No excuse for it, right enough. 

Having said all that, any Q&A should have taken place at a properly convened Society meeting.

[steelboy]

7 minutes ago, Spit_It_Out said:

It is embarrassing the guy is on a forum answering questions constructively as he can to have utter morons abuse him didn’t have too but at least trying to shine light on some stuff.

If that's as constructive as he can manage then it's a bad sign. He's said nothing about exactly what he's planning to do with the club when he gets control and is trying to set it up as 50+1 German style set up when it's nothing like that.

[steelboy]

4 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

They might well have been, but surely they kept other Society board members informed? Given the Society's public response, you'd think Messrs Dickie and Feeley were given other board members' responses to feed back into the official negotiations no? How did the Society board let things go this far if they were totally opposed to the details we've been given? It doesn't make sense. 

The two co-chairmen of the Well Society are in favour of the deal and they have the mandate from the previous vote so it obviously preceeded.

If the Society board was 9-0 against it we probably wouldn't be having a vote but 6-3 means it has to be entertained. Anyone who votes for this is off their head, the club valued at £4 million quid is ridiculous.

 

[Casagolda]

7 minutes ago, steelboy said:

The two co-chairmen of the Well Society are in favour of the deal and they have the mandate from the previous vote so it obviously preceeded.

If the Society board was 9-0 against it we probably wouldn't be having a vote but 6-3 means it has to be entertained. Anyone who votes for this is off their head, the club valued at £4 million quid is ridiculous.

 

IDK it is 2/3rds of the board against the idea. The Co-Chairs should hold no more weight than another board member.

I still see legal issues with the very idea of this vote with the rules of the society as they are currently constituted. I think there needs to be an amendment to the rules at a general meeting that changes some of the fundamental objectives of the society before this can proceed.

Obviously there was the indicative vote on whether we should consider giving up majority control but that cannot be binding over the regulations of the Society.  It should need a proper motion with text deleted from the Objectives of the Society.

[Spiderpig]

As someone who has never seen the WS as being fit for purpose since it was proposed, I have to say they seem to be getting shafted on this proposal.

It's blatantly obvious that Mcmahon and his cronies want out and I get the impression they don't give a feck what happens after that. Barmack wants full control of the club without the WS to annoy him that's his return on the investment and if that happens, in a few years he'll get bored and move his cash elsewhere then we are really screwed.

I have my doubts as to whether the WS can really stop this going through or if the enthusiastic amateurs on the WS board have the nous, knowhow and willingness to come up with an alternative. 

Additional investment is required but not this proposal, so I would hope it goes no further.

 

[steelman1991]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Where did you see this?

Also on the Official Site

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/06/10/well-society-co-chair-steps-down/

[well_said]

2 hours ago, steelboy said:

Feeley and Dickie were involved all the way.

So who was the third board member voting for the investment?

[joewarkfanclub]

Folk really need to stop saying the Well Society is not fit for purpose.

The Well Society previously was not fit for purpose because it was set up that way by the incumbents on the club board to get the benefit of of the money raised but without the interference that would come with true fan ownership.

The fact that Society Members have had the temerity to vote individuals onto the Society Board who might actually want to change that and have a real say in the running of our club appears to have brought a lot of this to a head.

Its clear from detail given that McMahon has been pushing this deal and that Barmack doesnt want to be inconvenienced by a rejuvenated Well Society trying to influence any decision making. He appears to have been assisted by Dickie and Feely in this regard which is a clear conflict of interest.

How else can you explain a proposed deal with 1 side putting in £1.95m over 6 years and gaining 49% of the club whilst the other side puts in £1.75 over the same time period to lose 25% of its existing stake?

Barmack also gets effective control of the club from day 1 for only £300k and an 8% stake due to his chairmanship and board appointees?

The deal is ludicrous and should be chased.

The new Well Society Board have only been in place since October. In that time they have done their due diligance on this and are putting together their own proposals to strengthen the club going forward.

They are all all Motherwell fans with the best interests of the club at heart. They have a diversity of skill and experience. They deserve a chance to show they can can do better than the ones who got us to this point.

[Kmcalpin]

30 minutes ago, well_said said:

So who was the third board member voting for the investment?

Does it matter? We must avoid getting involved in witchhunts. 

I'll be emailing the Society to ask for the reasoning behind the 3 board members' vote. I have no wish to know their identity.  I simply want to understand their thinking. We know the reasoning behind the other 6, I just want to know theirs to inform my thinking. 

[StAndrew7]

4 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Does it matter? We must avoid getting involved in witchhunts. 

This.

[David]

6 hours ago, dennyc said:

But the dilemma I have is that I cannot see how the WS alone can generate sufficient funds to sustain us in the top division, dependent upon player sales for survival. That also....in my opinion....is fraught with too much risk. Their proposal needs to come soon and be realistic.

There are ways we can raise the required funds via outside sources without handing over the keys to the castle. It can be done, and it wouldn't be that difficult really.

[wunderwell]

It's a bit like being on Dragons Den.

We've pitched and we've got an offer. Only one of the dragons is interested.

Do we work with the guy who can possibly take us to a higher level or go with the status quo?

It's a punt but I'm in favour of going into the unknown.  It will either go very very well or flop to a horrendous degree.

The Well Society are going nowhere fast, but they have time to convince me otherwise. I'm interested in where they could take us. Maybe that website like Hearts have would be a good start.

[wunderwell]

2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Folk really need to stop saying the Well Society is not fit for purpose.

The Well Society previously was not fit for purpose because it was set up that way by the incumbents on the club board to get the benefit of of the money raised but without the interference that would come with true fan ownership.

The fact that Society Members have had the temerity to vote individuals onto the Society Board who might actually want to change that and have a real say in the running of our club appears to have brought a lot of this to a head.

Its clear from detail given that McMahon has been pushing this deal and that Barmack doesnt want to be inconvenienced by a rejuvenated Well Society trying to influence any decision making. He appears to have been assisted by Dickie and Feely in this regard which is a clear conflict of interest.

How else can you explain a proposed deal with 1 side putting in £1.95m over 6 years and gaining 49% of the club whilst the other side puts in £1.75 over the same time period to lose 25% of its existing stake?

Barmack also gets effective control of the club from day 1 for only £300k and an 8% stake due to his chairmanship and board appointees?

The deal is ludicrous and should be chased.

The new Well Society Board have only been in place since October. In that time they have done their due diligance on this and are putting together their own proposals to strengthen the club going forward.

They are all all Motherwell fans with the best interests of the club at heart. They have a diversity of skill and experience. They deserve a chance to show they can can do better than the ones who got us to this point.

That's 9 months and counting. Any chance of a decent website that covers off firstly what the Well Society are all about.

https://www.foundationofhearts.org/

[dennyc]

1 hour ago, David said:

There are ways we can raise the required funds via outside sources without handing over the keys to the castle. It can be done, and it wouldn't be that difficult really.

I hope so. But is it not up to the Club Board to secure funds from outside sources rather than being the responsibility of the Society Board? The Club Board run the Club and the Society Board amass funds from member contributions. 

From what I have read of the proposal, McMahon supported by Dickie doesn’t just want to hand over the keys to the castle, he wants to nullify the Society. And in the process acquire the Society’s assets for his preferred new owner and remove any control the Society has over the direction the football club takes. No wonder Dickie’s position on the Society Board is untenable. How long does anybody think the Society will survive under that arrangement?

The Society was initially established to provide back up funds for a rainy day. Short term finance, to be repaid when suitable. Over time Les H and McMahon changed that role in that the Society now appears to be seen as a source of income. So much so that under this proposal the Society is forced to hand over a sizeable sum each year and at the same time have no real say in anything. Wow!

I for one want to see the Society operate as originally agreed, with the Club Board accepting responsibility for ensuring the Football Club operates at a profit ( or at least breaks even) by operating efficiently and generating income from their own efforts. After all, that is what I understood the role of a Football Club Board was all about. And that is certainly not the role of the Society Board. 
 

So for me. Thanks but no thanks. 

[Yoshi-1991]

9 hours ago, wellup83 said:

We have to look beyond the money here. The Barmacks are and were never going to be a sugerdaddy to the club, bankrolling us with millions of pounds year in year out. What this is is an opportunity to open new avenues to selling the club home and abroad with the purpose of generating new fans and investment in a safe and sustainable way. The Barmacks have the knowledge and platforms to do just that. With the welfare and assets of the club protected and safeguarded I don't see what we've got to lose. 

This is the argument I made to my mate earlier. The value of the investment doesn't come down to only money, but as you have said, the opertunity being offered which could potentially lead us to new money that as of yet lays in a pool untapped by Scottish football. 

You are not going to get many offers on the table that allow for the same protection offered here. It seems to me that Barmack has taken the time and effort to work along with fan demand as much as possible and likely more than a lot of others would offer.

If you are just looking at the money on offer then sure, it looks a bad deal, but if you take the opertunity into consideration then I dont think its as clear cut as many on here think it is. 

[weeyin]

13 minutes ago, dennyc said:

I hope so. But is it not up to the Club Board to secure funds from outside sources rather than being the responsibility of the Society Board? The Club Board run the Club and the Society Board amass funds from member contributions.

That's where it gets a bit complicated, or at least nuanced.

The Club Board definitely run the club, but as the Society is the majority shareholder, they run it at the behest of the Society. If we don't like what they are doing, there will be mechanisms, I'm sure, to replace them all.

[weeyin]

3 minutes ago, Yoshi-1991 said:

This is the argument I made to my mate earlier. The value of the investment doesn't come down to only money, but as you have said, the opertunity being offered which could potentially lead us to new money that as of yet lays in a pool untapped by Scottish football. 

You are not going to get many offers on the table that allow for the same protection offered here. It seems to me that Barmack has taken the time and effort to work along with fan demand as much as possible and likely more than a lot of others would offer.

If you are just looking at the money on offer then sure, it looks a bad deal, but if you take the opertunity into consideration then I dont think its as clear cut as many on here think it is. 

What's the opportunity?

If it does exist, then we should be charging extra for that opportunity cost, not handing over control for a discount.