steelboy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 This is the kind of proposal I expected from day one. A plan which claims to maintain fan ownership but is designed to end it covertly. The Society need to communicate this clrearly. They should be taking apart Barmack's bid before they launch their own plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Just now, dennyc said: What happens upon default? No need to answer as I know you are asking that same question. This is what Wild Sheep Sports (who even came up with that bloody name? They need to be sacked) is relying on to gain majority control. If and when the Society can't increase income to meet the conditions imposed by the executive board and Barmack, I believe it will allow WSS to increase their shareholding. I can't emphasise this enough: We need absolute clarity on what happens if the Society can't meet these financial obligations under the proposed deal. Under the proposed deal, the Society would be required to run faster than it ever has simply to stand still and not lose ground. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 14 minutes ago, steelboy said: Aye the chances are the Society will run out of money and not be able to buy enough shares. It's still a rip off where we pay £1.8 million to lose a huge amount of our shareholding. Also Barmack still has control of the board from day one. Yep, other than the Loan conversion to shares thing, the concessions do not appear to change much. And reducing that Loan will actually strengthen MB's position moving forward. And if the Shares we receive/purchase fall in value then effectively the Society assets are reduced in value. Perhaps we should just double the cost of the shares to be issued, with the WS receiving their new shares for free, matching the total taken up by others, including MB. That would retain the balance at no cost to the Society. And provide the same input to Club finances 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Converting the loan to shares while still losing overall shareholding is still basically forgiving the loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 12 minutes ago, steelboy said: The Society need to communicate this clrearly. They should be taking apart Barmack's bid before they launch their own plan. If they're still against the deal, as you would suspect, they better get the finger out on one or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 8 minutes ago, steelboy said: Converting the loan to shares while still losing overall shareholding is still basically forgiving the loan. I agree, and reducing power the Society currently holds The Board statement is just playing on the 51% emotional hang up folks have.. Giving fans the impression that it is being conceded but in reality this is a longer game with a far different outcome the objective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 It's also notable that when it suits McMahon it's all legally binding periods, head of terms and corporate finance experts. Then as soon as he realises he's made an arse of it the red pen comes out and he can make changes on the fly. A total fucking chancer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, dennyc said: I agree, The Board statement is just playing on the 51% emotional hang up folks have.. Giving fans the impression that it is being conceded but in reality this is a longer game with a far different outcome the objective. It's not even 51%. It's 50.1%. It's completely transparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Even if the Well Society does manage to scrape the money together to get the 50.1% shareholding they will still have no reserves in 6 years time which means 1 bad season and Barmack will be offering to cover it for full control. The deal stinks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 11 minutes ago, steelboy said: Even if the Well Society does manage to scrape the money together to get the 50.1% shareholding they will still have no reserves in 6 years time which means 1 bad season and Barmack will be offering to cover it for full control. The deal stinks. What he will do is then offer to repay the balance of the outstanding Loan, thus eliminating it completely. As I keep trying to tell folk, that Loan is a noose round his and McMahon's neck. It gives the Society so much added power over Fir Park. That's one reason it was set up in the first place. Why else do you think 'Loans' were dumped for 'Donations' under the old Dickie led WS. The Society never ever has any intention of demanding repayment of all monies loaned, but the Loan is a safety net. Essential it remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dossertillidie2 Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 The guy has just responded to someone on Twitter stating 1. He has no clear exit plan 2. A speculative business plan that provides no information 3. No desire to take money out the club over 6yrs ask yourself would you put nearly £2m into something and have no clear plan of how to get it back out? this guy is for the watching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clueless Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 I have spent the past 11 days checking the back of my head for buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 13 minutes ago, Dossertillidie2 said: The guy has just responded to someone on Twitter stating 1. He has no clear exit plan 2. A speculative business plan that provides no information 3. No desire to take money out the club over 6yrs ask yourself would you put nearly £2m into something and have no clear plan of how to get it back out? this guy is for the watching! If he's publicly admitting that he has no fucking plan (as we all know from how shite this all is), then this has to be killed right now. He's already said to @David on P&B he only has 10% of the information he needs to formulate one. The Exec Board's integrity is totally gone here if they're willing to give control of the club to a randomer who admits he's got absolutely no idea about what he's going to be doing. If this were a takeover/investment proposal for a "proper" company this would have fallen the minute he said "Let's see what happens, lol." I've written to the club today to ask what independent financial due diligence has been carried out on the proposal, as McMahon said he would (highly) recommend doing that at the AGM... although that was when he was planning to step down and have nothing to do with the negotiations, so maybe his opinion of his own calculations mean we don't need an independent auditor involved... Once I've got a reply to that, I'll be asking for more details of Mr Barmack's business plan, investment strategy, ROI calculations and what KPIs will be used to measure the "success" over the first two seasons prior to the WS deciding if he and and his wife are adding any value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron_Mcd Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 16 minutes ago, Dossertillidie2 said: The guy has just responded to someone on Twitter stating 1. He has no clear exit plan 2. A speculative business plan that provides no information 3. No desire to take money out the club over 6yrs ask yourself would you put nearly £2m into something and have no clear plan of how to get it back out? this guy is for the watching! A whole lot of Erik Barmack's strategy is relying on 'trust me bro' and hoping people will fall for it. If I was to guess, unless something changes in the next few days this proposal will pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casagolda Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 This a huge change and there must be adequate time for scrutiny before any Well Society vote. There must be a full explanation of how many new shares are planning to be be issued per year and how much they will cost. And this still doesnn't address the major issue that Barmack's offer is way below the value of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Just now, Cameron_Mcd said: A whole lot of Erik Barmack's strategy is relying on 'trust me bro' and hoping people will fall for it. If I was to guess, unless something changes in the next few days this proposal will pass. The Society needed to get in front of this and I think there's been a real missed opportunity this week, being honest. Now that this "revised offer" (read: the plan all along) has been provided in (unsurprisingly) a lot less detail than the lengthy statements issued previously, people will think it's a far better deal than the original and vote for it because "why the fuck not, this lad seems alright". It's pretty standard business practice; go in with shite, tweak it a bit, then convince the turkeys you won't do anything to them at Thanksgiving but never mention Christmas being round the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dossertillidie2 Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 20 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: If he's publicly admitting that he has no fucking plan (as we all know from how shite this all is), then this has to be killed right now. He's already said to @David on P&B he only has 10% of the information he needs to formulate one. The Exec Board's integrity is totally gone here if they're willing to give control of the club to a randomer who admits he's got absolutely no idea about what he's going to be doing. If this were a takeover/investment proposal for a "proper" company this would have fallen the minute he said "Let's see what happens, lol." I've written to the club today to ask what independent financial due diligence has been carried out on the proposal, as McMahon said he would (highly) recommend doing that at the AGM... although that was when he was planning to step down and have nothing to do with the negotiations, so maybe his opinion of his own calculations mean we don't need an independent auditor involved... Once I've got a reply to that, I'll be asking for more details of Mr Barmack's business plan, investment strategy, ROI calculations and what KPIs will be used to measure the "success" over the first two seasons prior to the WS deciding if he and and his wife are adding any value. Look at what GregAnderson_21 is asking him on Twitter. He’s clearly avoiding certain questions by his responses. He’s in danger of being shown for what he appears to be on there. An absolute chancer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Barmack made a compete cunt of himself last week over on p&b,no serious individual should be arsing about on a fans forum,the thought of this clown having any control over our club is grim. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 19 minutes ago, Cameron_Mcd said: If I was to guess, unless something changes in the next few days this proposal will pass. Agreed. Individuals quizzing him on X or P&B will do next to hee haw when it comes to influencing folk who can only see £ and Hollywood signs. The Well Society have to do/say something meaningful, and sharpish, or the horse will have bolted. By the way, how long do they normally take to acknowledge you've joined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 4 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: By the way, how long do they normally take to acknowledge you've joined? I joined last week (Tuesday I think), other than a confirmation of my DD, nothing. I emailed them my details too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybingo Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 Just now, StAndrew7 said: I joined last week (Tuesday I think), other than a confirmation of my DD, nothing. I emailed them my details too. Yup, same here. I realise they have far bigger fish to fry at the moment, but a wee automated welcome email or similar would have been a nice touch. Anyone know if there is/was there a cut-off point for voting rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 45 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: I've written to the club today to ask what independent financial due diligence has been carried out on the proposal, as McMahon said he would (highly) recommend doing that at the AGM... although that was when he was planning to step down and have nothing to do with the negotiations, so maybe his opinion of his own calculations mean we don't need an independent auditor involved... Once I've got a reply to that, I'll be asking for more details of Mr Barmack's business plan, investment strategy, ROI calculations and what KPIs will be used to measure the "success" over the first two seasons prior to the WS deciding if he and and his wife are adding any value. Can you ask for details of the share subscription in each of the 6 years. Specifically how many shares, who can buy them and how much each party pays per share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 I said the other day that I was worried about the Well Society communications and this has increased now. Now McMahon can frame a revised offer as reasonable and protecting fan ownership when it's nothing of the kind. The Society board should have been shouting from the rooftops about a massive undervaluation and the unfairness of paying out all our cash reserves in return for a huge reduction in shareholding. Instead McMahon has set the agenda all week and we've heard nothing from the Society. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 50 minutes ago, bobbybingo said: Agreed. Individuals quizzing him on X or P&B will do next to hee haw when it comes to influencing folk who can only see £ and Hollywood signs. The Well Society have to do/say something meaningful, and sharpish, or the horse will have bolted. By the way, how long do they normally take to acknowledge you've joined? There's a backlog just now. They tweeted this the other day. From recollection it took about ten days to process my mums membership (maybe slightly less) - I assume they do it in batches Edited to say my mum joined after the initial proposal and I assume she won't get a vote - her joining had nothing to do with this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 They surely can't be letting people who have signed up during this process have a vote? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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