Peter Millar Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 On 6/12/2024 at 5:44 PM, steelboy said: The football side is hard. But the directors don't have much input into that it's the manager, players, head of recruitment to a lesser extent the CEO. The administrative side is easy, you could put a Sausage Dog in the board room and we are still selling out the South Stand to the Old Firm and getting our share of the TV money, the UEFA money etc. ‘The football side is hard but the directors don’t have input into that’. How do you evidence that statement. ’The administrative side is easy’. So running an £8 million pound busy with all the adjacent issues and challenges could be done by a sausage dog. So ensuring crowd safety is easy; ensuring compliance is easy; managing HR issues is easy; dealing with licensing is easy. Do me a favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 58 minutes ago, Peter Millar said: ‘The football side is hard but the directors don’t have input into that’. How do you evidence that statement. ’The administrative side is easy’. So running an £8 million pound busy with all the adjacent issues and challenges could be done by a sausage dog. So ensuring crowd safety is easy; ensuring compliance is easy; managing HR issues is easy; dealing with licensing is easy. Do me a favour. If every club and business in the land manages to do it ok it suggests it's not difficult. If you work in a job where a Charles Dunne type is trying to break your fingers while you're sending a email then I apologise but the competitive nature of football makes it an entirely different challenge. Running an £8 million business like Motherwell is easy. Season ticket sales are consistent and fuck all to do with the board. Away fans are not coming because of Jim McMahon and Douglas Dickie. Sky deal and UEFA money is completely external to the club. That's your main income streams which the board have very little impact on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 15 minutes ago, steelboy said: If every club and business in the land manages to do it ok it suggests it's not difficult. If you work in a job where a Charles Dunne type is trying to break your fingers while you're sending a email then I apologise but the competitive nature of football makes it an entirely different challenge. Running an £8 million business like Motherwell is easy. Season ticket sales are consistent and fuck all to do with the board. Away fans are not coming because of Jim McMahon and Douglas Dickie. Sky deal and UEFA money is completely external to the club. That's your main income streams which the board have very little impact on. You really do believe the shite you post don't you, constant trolling on an online forum you really need to have a good look at yourself 🤦♂️ 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 19 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: You really do believe the shite you post don't you, constant trolling on an online forum you really need to have a good look at yourself 🤦♂️ I'm replying to a question from someone who dug up a post from weeks ago. There are a lot of people out there who are invested into parroting the idea that sending emails and filling in forms is a talent like being a footballer or a musician but that doesn't make it true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Millar Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, steelboy said: If every club and business in the land manages to do it ok it suggests it's not difficult. If you work in a job where a Charles Dunne type is trying to break your fingers while you're sending a email then I apologise but the competitive nature of football makes it an entirely different challenge. Running an £8 million business like Motherwell is easy. Season ticket sales are consistent and fuck all to do with the board. Away fans are not coming because of Jim McMahon and Douglas Dickie. Sky deal and UEFA money is completely external to the club. That's your main income streams which the board have very little impact on. What has Charles Dunne got to do with anything? Really you have nothing to back up your statement that it’s easy other than generalisations? Sorry I didn’t reply earlier. I was on holiday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 17 minutes ago, Peter Millar said: What has Charles Dunne got to do with anything? Really you have nothing to back up your statement that it’s easy other than generalisations? Sorry I didn’t reply earlier. I was on holiday Ok. I'll make this simple. Adminstrative tasks which have close to 100% success rate across every business in the country cannot be considered difficult. Complicated and time consuming but not difficult. Football is different from compliance because it's a competitive sport with rivals who are expending efforts to ensure you don't succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 That's the first time I've laughed at a post on here in ages. Aye running a business of any description is dead easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 4 hours ago, steelboy said: If every club and business in the land manages to do it ok it suggests it's not difficult. They don't. 20% of business fail in the first year. 60% within 3 - 5 years. Boyle bankrupted our business, and if wasn't for the fact he chose not to be repaid all he was owed from the club, we wouldn't be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Millar Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 3 hours ago, steelboy said: Ok. I'll make this simple. Adminstrative tasks which have close to 100% success rate across every business in the country cannot be considered difficult. Complicated and time consuming but not difficult. Football is different from compliance because it's a competitive sport with rivals who are expending efforts to ensure you don't succeed. Ok. I’ll make this simple too. If you think close on 100% administrative tasks are completed successfully then I am happy for you but if you can back this up with hard evidence I’ll believe you. I’ll wait. All businesses across all business sectors expend effort and resources to try and ensure they are ahead of their competitors as they identify them. It doesn’t just impact on football. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 So we're now 1 week from the voting opening and we still haven't seen the club's detailed proposal about issuing new shares or any kind of business plan from Erik Barmack and the Well Society haven't announced a single public meeting about the situation. Farcical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 44 minutes ago, steelboy said: So we're now 1 week from the voting opening and we still haven't seen the club's detailed proposal about issuing new shares or any kind of business plan from Erik Barmack and the Well Society haven't announced a single public meeting about the situation. Farcical. There's some serious work going on behind the scenes with the Society, trust me. Considering the board all has full-time jobs and lives, the fact they're doing what I've seen thus far is nothing short of amazing. Anyone who questions their commitment is more than welcome to get in touch and offer to help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 McMahon's masterplan. 1. Declare State of Emergency. Heap pressure on the Society Board insisting they produce a strategy that is actually his Board's responsibility. Hint at continual decline if no action taken immediately. Deny Society access to vital financial information and enforce timescales. 2. Raise expectations amongst Society Members as to what the Society can realistically achieve. 3. Maintain silence , monitor unrest. Gloat. 4. Immediately prior to vote, declare that Barmack is the only viable show in town. 5. Ride off into the sunset having inflicted massive damage to the Well Society. Leave the Club in the hands of any investor he can convince to take on the challenge. Irrespective of whether or not a long term plan exists. 6. Sit back basking in the glowing Club Statement about his magnificent and modernist approach to Football Club leadership. And sadly he might pull it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 2 hours ago, David said: There's some serious work going on behind the scenes with the Society, trust me. Considering the board all has full-time jobs and lives, the fact they're doing what I've seen thus far is nothing short of amazing. Anyone who questions their commitment is more than welcome to get in touch and offer to help? No criticism of your statement but for me it highlights the fundamental issue we have "all the board have full time jobs" for the WS to operate as it should to ensure true fan ownership the boards full time jobs should be running the WS. Professional people in place to provide effective and professional governance hopefully the current scenario will be the catalyst for the required changes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 35 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: No criticism of your statement but for me it highlights the fundamental issue we have "all the board have full time jobs" for the WS to operate as it should to ensure true fan ownership the boards full time jobs should be running the WS. Professional people in place to provide effective and professional governance hopefully the current scenario will be the catalyst for the required changes. The point I'd make is that the Society board isn't tasked with running the club. That's why we have a Chairman, a CEO, and a club board. I'd view the Society as a hands-off majority owner. For now, anyway. The people we should be quizzing on the way forward for the club are the Chairman, and the new CEO. I'd be interested in seeing his plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 44 minutes ago, David said: The point I'd make is that the Society board isn't tasked with running the club. That's why we have a Chairman, a CEO, and a club board. I'd view the Society as a hands-off majority owner. For now, anyway. The people we should be quizzing on the way forward for the club are the Chairman, and the new CEO. I'd be interested in seeing his plan? Yeah, what is the Board's Plan B if the WS members reject Barmack? I'm sure they must have one given the Chairman's comments about how investment is much needed. After all they are the professionals charged with safeguarding the Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 4 hours ago, David said: There's some serious work going on behind the scenes with the Society, trust me. Considering the board all has full-time jobs and lives, the fact they're doing what I've seen thus far is nothing short of amazing. Anyone who questions their commitment is more than welcome to get in touch and offer to help? I think perhaps the frustration is that some fans know nothing of the well societys plans. I certainly know nothing about what's going on behind the scenes. I personally have every intention of helping out in some capacity once I'm able to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderwell Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 4 hours ago, David said: There's some serious work going on behind the scenes with the Society, trust me. Considering the board all has full-time jobs and lives, the fact they're doing what I've seen thus far is nothing short of amazing. Anyone who questions their commitment is more than welcome to get in touch and offer to help? You know my feelings by now and I'll try and be nice and mellow about it! It's behind the scenes and you have seen it. Once we do see it, hopefully those frustrations go away and it's as good as you say. It wouldn't be easy for me to help and probably many more. 3 kids and a few businesses to run at this end. That's why I wouldn't raise a hand. I don't suspect those that did could have foreseen this though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, David said: The point I'd make is that the Society board isn't tasked with running the club. That's why we have a Chairman, a CEO, and a club board. I'd view the Society as a hands-off majority owner. For now, anyway. The people we should be quizzing on the way forward for the club are the Chairman, and the new CEO. I'd be interested in seeing his plan? I've emailed both the well society and Brian Caldwell in the last week and both responded to me very quickly. Brian in less than 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted June 24 Report Share Posted June 24 3 hours ago, Spiderpig said: No criticism of your statement but for me it highlights the fundamental issue we have "all the board have full time jobs" for the WS to operate as it should to ensure true fan ownership the boards full time jobs should be running the WS. Professional people in place to provide effective and professional governance hopefully the current scenario will be the catalyst for the required changes. Paid for by whom? WS donations? Surely a false economy until there are sufficient funds for that to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 12 hours ago, David said: The point I'd make is that the Society board isn't tasked with running the club. That's why we have a Chairman, a CEO, and a club board. I'd view the Society as a hands-off majority owner. For now, anyway. The people we should be quizzing on the way forward for the club are the Chairman, and the new CEO. I'd be interested in seeing his plan? I was not suggesting the WS should run the club, although as majority shareholders there is an argument for that. I said run the WS properly, raise funds, grow the membership, fix the website, etc as up till now its been a shambles, to be exploited by the current board. Running an organisation with a responsibility over millions in cash should not be left to volunteers, however well meaning they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 9 hours ago, Yabba's Turd said: Paid for by whom? WS donations? Surely a false economy until there are sufficient funds for that to work. By growing the membership and hence donations, seeking other revenue streams, etc. I'm not suggesting a large payroll 1 maybe 2 paid officials would be sufficient, or if that fails call steelboy he seems to think running a company etc is easy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 17 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: I was not suggesting the WS should run the club, although as majority shareholders there is an argument for that. I said run the WS properly, raise funds, grow the membership, fix the website, etc as up till now its been a shambles, to be exploited by the current board. Running an organisation with a responsibility over millions in cash should not be left to volunteers, however well meaning they are. That's simply not true, though. There are plenty of examples; organisations (churches, presbyteries etc.) who run their own organisations with similar levels of cash in them, entirely (or almost entirely) run by volunteers. I accept that a lot of them have skills and experience from their professional lives they utilise here (e.g. the treasurer being an accountant), but it doesn't mean it can't be done. The church just down the road from the club (Motherwell South) is a perfect example; they have raised well over £1m (probably closer to £1.5m now) and paid for and built a new sanctuary and are about to pay to renovate the remainder of the buildings as well. That project has been run entirely by volunteers and bringing in professionals to do the relevant tasks like architectural drawings, building works etc. when the time has come. I would probably agree that more structure in terms of assigned roles is required on the WS Board, if it moves into a more prominent majority shareholder role (e.g. a treasurer with an accounting/banking background etc.) and I do think a paid/employed Society Secretary type position would make some sense. I'm not really up on my corporate law; would that mean the type of Company/Incorporation the Society is might need to change, so they can have employees? I would say that the Society would probably be best to continue in its role as an "at length" majority owner, but with better control over the Exec Board and its members, who make the decisions on the strategic direction and so on, with the more mundane/day to day side of business dealt with by the CEO and their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted June 25 Author Report Share Posted June 25 I think there is some kind of middle ground here. I can see where Spiderpig, David and StAndrew7 are all coming from. The principle of the WS being run by volunteers is fine but, it does need to exert more strategic control over the club. This is entirely consistent with it being the major shareholder. To date its been far too passive, for various reasons. Thats not to say that it should run the club on a day to day basis. It shouldn't. Currently I think it employs 1 employee, full time or not I don't know. That perhaps needs to be increased slightly. Its simply too much for one person to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 11 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: and I do think a paid/employed Society Secretary type position would make some sense. They already have this. The idea that the Well Society needs full time professional board members is ridiculous. No club in Scotland has that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 19 minutes ago, steelboy said: They already have this. The idea that the Well Society needs full time professional board members is ridiculous. No club in Scotland has that. Yeah, I realised that shortly after I posted 😅. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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