New Investment Options

[David]

2 hours ago, Mccus28 said:

I understand what your saying but to play devils advocate, EB was ripped to pieces for not going into the minutia of any plans by some on here.

That isn’t quite true. Barmack was criticised heavily for not having any plan at all, and then he didn’t help himself by admitting that he had about 10% of the knowledge needed to create one.

He  indicated in various conversations some of his ideas as follows:

• Take one of our home games against either Celtic or Rangers, where we still don’t fill a 13,700-seat stadium, to Wembley Stadium in London.
• Essentially force the manager and recruitment team to sign and play two Latin American players because it could be useful in securing a sponsorship deal with a tequila company.

Aside from that, he suggested implementing an AI system that would take a few weeks to put together and cost about $10,000.

So no, it’s not quite the same. The Well Society has put together a proposal that includes action plans, complete with KPIs and projected ROI, in a business plan that will be available shortly.

Barmack has produced absolutely nothing so far.

2 hours ago, bobbybingo said:

The problem I would have is, if anyone asks me to give them a specific example of what the Well Society is proposing, I couldn't - which echoes the answers I get if I ask Erik Barmack's backers for a specific example of his plans.

That being said, it's EB's proposal that people should be voting on, not the Society's.

If someone asks you for a specific example, just tell them about the strategic investment section of the proposal.

The Well Society’s strategic investment plan aims to secure the future of the club by attracting partnerships from companies and individuals who can offer both financial support and specialised expertise. In return, the investors will receive a share of the revenue generated from these projects, creating a mutually beneficial arrangement. This approach ensures the club remains financially robust and operationally advanced without relinquishing any shares or boardroom seats.

By leveraging the skills and resources of strategic investors, the Well Society can implement initiatives such as upgrading training facilities, introducing advanced scouting technologies, and creating immersive media content. These projects will not only provide immediate benefits to the club but also generate ongoing revenue and cost savings. Additionally, investors will gain the opportunity to showcase their products and services in a real-world, high-visibility environment, receive valuable feedback and data for further development, and enjoy the brand association with a historic football club, which provides them with the "test case" needed to sell their services to other clubs and companies. The strategy allows for the club’s continuous improvement and financial stability while preserving the fan ownership model, ensuring the values and traditions of Motherwell are upheld.

25 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

In my opinion, the only way the WS can generate substantial increased revenue is for investment and not increased members. 
 

investors will want something in return for their investment. What are the WS offering in return? Shares/percentage of the club? Is that not the same as EB is offering right now? 

See above.

[StAndrew7]

10 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

No what?

No, it's not the same.

What @David said.

[prideoflanarkshire]

I’m failing to see why someone would invest to get a “share of the revenue generated”. What does that even mean. Say I wanted to invest £100k into the club what revenue do we generate to allow an investor to get return on their investment?

im not trying to be difficult or controversial but that just sounds a lot of buzz words and convoluted statements. 
 

what is the WS offering an investor to encourage them to invest in us?

[weeyin]

2 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

I’m failing to see why someone would invest to get a “share of the revenue generated”. What does that even mean. Say I wanted to invest £100k into the club what revenue do we generate to allow an investor to get return on their investment?

Here's a hypothetical example or two.

I own a 4G (or 5G) football pitch company. I invest 50K into the club and lay a practice pitch for cost. In return I get 5 year's free advertising inside Fir Park and 50% of revenue generated by renting out the practice pitch.

I'm a sports data company. I give you the equipment and software to use for free. In return, you give me all your player data for free and I combine that with other team's data that I combine and sell to sports scientists, universities, journalists and game developers.

I invest 500k for new equipment and faclities in the academy. In return, I get 10% of transfer fees from academy graduates for the next 10 years, capped at 750k.

 

 

[StAndrew7]

13 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

I’m failing to see why someone would invest to get a “share of the revenue generated”. What does that even mean. Say I wanted to invest £100k into the club what revenue do we generate to allow an investor to get return on their investment?

im not trying to be difficult or controversial but that just sounds a lot of buzz words and convoluted statements. 
 

what is the WS offering an investor to encourage them to invest in us?

On top of @weeyin's examples, I'd suggest keeping an eye out for the Business Plan that's going to be released soon. I think it'll help answer these questions, alongside what @David has already said.

[prideoflanarkshire]

3 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Here's a hypothetical example or two.

I own a 4G (or 5G) football pitch company. I invest 50K into the club and lay a practice pitch for cost. In return I get 5 year's free advertising inside Fir Park and 50% of revenue generated by renting out the practice pitch.

I'm a sports data company. I give you the equipment and software to use for free. In return, you give me all your player data for free and I combine that with other team's data that I combine and sell to sports scientists, universities, journalists and game developers.

I invest 500k for new equipment and faclities in the academy. In return, I get 10% of transfer fees from academy graduates for the next 10 years, capped at 750k.

 

 

None of that sounds great at all…

we are now offering free advertising, percentages of our transfers, part of our end of year profits, some of the revenue from renting out our facilities all to try and gain investments. 
 

I do look forward to reviewing the business plan in the forthcoming days. 

[StAndrew7]

10 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

None of that sounds great at all…

we are now offering free advertising, percentages of our transfers, part of our end of year profits, some of the revenue from renting out our facilities all to try and gain investments. 
 

I do look forward to reviewing the business plan in the forthcoming days. 

How else do you suggest a return on investment is provided, then?

Returns on investment in any business are provided from, basically, three things (I'm being somewhat flippant here):

1) Profit related payments 

2) Something being provided for free there would normally be a cost associated with

3) Receiving a percentage of the sale of an asset you helped develop or were involved with, or the related IP which you can then exploit for your own gain.

What else are we meant to do when someone invests and wants their investment back or to make a profit on it, provided it's all worked out?

[Peter Millar]

13 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Here's a hypothetical example or two.

I own a 4G (or 5G) football pitch company. I invest 50K into the club and lay a practice pitch for cost. In return I get 5 year's free advertising inside Fir Park and 50% of revenue generated by renting out the practice pitch.

I'm a sports data company. I give you the equipment and software to use for free. In return, you give me all your player data for free and I combine that with other team's data that I combine and sell to sports scientists, universities, journalists and game developers.

I invest 500k for new equipment and faclities in the academy. In return, I get 10% of transfer fees from academy graduates for the next 10 years, capped at 750k.

 

 

I have some queries on your hypotheticals

Who meets the cost of maintaining the pitch, ensuring it’s clean and safe for each let. Who pays the utility bills and what are these costs because that will eat significantly into any profits.

I’m your star player, and I don’t want my data shared because I or my agent is doing a separate deal with the sports data company, or just because it is protected by GDPR.

What happens if I invest £500k in new equipment and facilities for Academy and the Academy produces zilch. How do I get a return on my investment?

[David]

40 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

I’m failing to see why someone would invest to get a “share of the revenue generated”. What does that even mean.

Example 1: Technology Firm - Advanced Scouting Software

Investor: Tech Firm Specialising in Player Scouting Software

Investment: £50,000 per annum over three years, plus free software for the club

Implementation:

• The tech firm provides advanced scouting software.
• Software is integrated into the club’s scouting operations.
• Training provided for scouts and coaches to utilise the software effectively.

Outcome and Benefits:

For Motherwell FC:

• Improved player recruitment based on data-driven insights.
• Potential to secure promising player signings leading to better team performance.
• Savings on scouting costs due to the efficiency of the software.

For the Tech Firm:

• A compelling case study demonstrating the effectiveness of their software in a professional football setting, allowing them to then sell their software to other football clubs as an alternative to current scouting software.
• Enhanced visibility and credibility in the sports technology market.

Example 2: Health Tech Company - Injury Prevention Technology

Investor: Health Tech Company Offering Wearable Devices for Injury Prevention

Investment: £30,000 per annum over five years, plus provision of wearable devices for the team

Implementation:

• Deploy wearable devices during training sessions and matches to collect data and analyze injury risks.
• Tailor training programs based on insights to reduce injuries and improve player health.

Outcome and Benefits:

For Motherwell FC:

• Notable decrease in training-related injuries, keeping key players fit and available.
• Improved player performance and longevity.
• Potential cost savings on medical treatments and player rehabilitation.

For the Health Tech Company:

• Revenue Split: 70% of savings from reduced injury costs to Motherwell FC, 30% to the health tech company.
• Valuable data and feedback to refine and enhance their product.
• Strengthened market position with a successful implementation in professional sports.

[weeyin]

20 minutes ago, Peter Millar said:

I have some queries on your hypotheticals

Who meets the cost of maintaining the pitch, ensuring it’s clean and safe for each let. Who pays the utility bills and what are these costs because that will eat significantly into any profits.

I’m your star player, and I don’t want my data shared because I or my agent is doing a separate deal with the sports data company, or just because it is protected by GDPR.

What happens if I invest £500k in new equipment and facilities for Academy and the Academy produces zilch. How do I get a return on my investment?

For the pitch, the maintenace costs come out of the rental fees. The return on investment percentage comes after costs paid. 

For the data, players obviously already have it in their contracts given the Opta stats that is available for a fee. 

If you invest 500k and get zero return from the academy, that's tough luck. Any investor knows returns are not guaranteed and the rate of return factors in that risk. A 50% return implies higher risk. 

But given I made these up inside 60 seconds, I'm sure some actual thought could be given to more watertight scenarios.

It's hardly a unqiue situation for businesses to partner with sports teams for some kind of return. 

[prideoflanarkshire]

David with all respect, this example seem full of hypotheticals:

why would a tech company pick us over all the other clubs?

where have the figures came from? no company is going to give away income of £150k in both cases. 
 

I love Motherwell but if you were wanting to showcase your produce you would try for a worldwide know club. 
 

30% of the saving on injuries that’s just nonsense 

 

[weeyin]

35 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

None of that sounds great at all…

we are now offering free advertising, percentages of our transfers, part of our end of year profits, some of the revenue from renting out our facilities all to try and gain investments. 
 

I do look forward to reviewing the business plan in the forthcoming days. 

So how does it stack up to EB's proposals and how he plans on getting his return on investment?

[weeyin]

3 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

David with all respect, this example seem full of hypotheticals:

why would a tech company pick us over all the other clubs?

where have the figures came from? no company is going to give away income of £150k in both cases. 
 

I love Motherwell but if you were wanting to showcase your produce you would try for a worldwide know club. 
 

30% of the saving on injuries that’s just nonsense 

 

Accies received hundreds of thousands in partnerships and I'd argue we are higher profile than them. 

[Peter Millar]

7 minutes ago, David said:

Example 1: Technology Firm - Advanced Scouting Software

Investor: Tech Firm Specialising in Player Scouting Software

Investment: £50,000 per annum over three years, plus free software for the club

Implementation:

• The tech firm provides advanced scouting software.
• Software is integrated into the club’s scouting operations.
• Training provided for scouts and coaches to utilise the software effectively.

Outcome and Benefits:

For Motherwell FC:

• Improved player recruitment based on data-driven insights.
• Potential to secure promising player signings leading to better team performance.
• Savings on scouting costs due to the efficiency of the software.

For the Tech Firm:

• A compelling case study demonstrating the effectiveness of their software in a professional football setting, allowing them to then sell their software to other football clubs as an alternative to current scouting software.
• Enhanced visibility and credibility in the sports technology market.

Example 2: Health Tech Company - Injury Prevention Technology

Investor: Health Tech Company Offering Wearable Devices for Injury Prevention

Investment: £30,000 per annum over five years, plus provision of wearable devices for the team

Implementation:

• Deploy wearable devices during training sessions and matches to collect data and analyze injury risks.
• Tailor training programs based on insights to reduce injuries and improve player health.

Outcome and Benefits:

For Motherwell FC:

• Notable decrease in training-related injuries, keeping key players fit and available.
• Improved player performance and longevity.
• Potential cost savings on medical treatments and player rehabilitation.

For the Health Tech Company:

• Revenue Split: 70% of savings from reduced injury costs to Motherwell FC, 30% to the health tech company.
• Valuable data and feedback to refine and enhance their product.
• Strengthened market position with a successful implementation in professional sports.

I’d be surprised if this level of investment would be available. There are already sophisticated examples of both these systems on the market sold globally that have cost a fortune to develop. It’s difficult to see why they would pay Motherwell to use them. I’m not sure they would go for that level of revenue split either.

[weeyin]

4 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

David with all respect, this example seem full of hypotheticals:

why would a tech company pick us over all the other clubs?

where have the figures came from? no company is going to give away income of £150k in both cases. 
 

I love Motherwell but if you were wanting to showcase your produce you would try for a worldwide know club

 

So what you're really asking is why EB, owner of an American film production company, would choose us over a worldwide known club? Or does that test only apply to Scottish businesses?

[David]

5 minutes ago, Peter Millar said:

I’d be surprised if this level of investment would be available. There are already sophisticated examples of both these systems on the market sold globally that have cost a fortune to develop. It’s difficult to see why they would pay Motherwell to use them. I’m not sure they would go for that level of revenue split either.

It's available. I know that for a fact.

EDIT: Those examples are really simple in their approach, which is why I chose them. They're easy to understand, so you can get an idea of how it would work.

And it does work.

[prideoflanarkshire]

2 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Accies received hundreds of thousands in partnerships and I'd argue we are higher profile than them. 

They also had a manager that got a cut of transfer fees so their Crown Jewels were sold on the cheap so he could get a cut before he was sack

[weeyin]

2 minutes ago, Peter Millar said:

I’d be surprised if this level of investment would be available. There are already sophisticated examples of both these systems on the market sold globally that have cost a fortune to develop. It’s difficult to see why they would pay Motherwell to use them. I’m not sure they would go for that level of revenue split either.

That's why they are examples.

EB hasn't even offered those. 

[weeyin]

3 minutes ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

They also had a manager that got a cut of transfer fees so their Crown Jewels were sold on the cheap so he could get a cut before he was sack

So you agree that they received hundreds of thousands in partnership deals, they are a smaller club than us and it's possible to get a return on academy players being sold?

[Peter Millar]

6 minutes ago, weeyin said:

For the pitch, the maintenace costs come out of the rental fees. The return on investment percentage comes after costs paid. 

For the data, players obviously already have it in their contracts given the Opta stats that is available for a fee. 

If you invest 500k and get zero return from the academy, that's tough luck. Any investor knows returns are not guaranteed and the rate of return factors in that risk. A 50% return implies higher risk. 

But given I made these up inside 60 seconds, I'm sure some actual thought could be given to more watertight scenarios.

It's hardly a unqiue situation for businesses to partner with sports teams for some kind of return. 

I’ve recently been involved in a community asset transfer process for a football pitch. After costs there’s not much left.

Opta stats are not the same as health information that is personal to you.

I don’t think ‘tough luck’ will cut it with many investors.

I appreciate you thought these up at short notice as examples.

[Peter Millar]

10 minutes ago, David said:

It's available. I know that for a fact.

EDIT: Those examples are really simple in their approach, which is why I chose them. They're easy to understand, so you can get an idea of how it would work.

And it does work.

For the amounts quoted in the post?

[David]

1 minute ago, Peter Millar said:

For the amounts quoted in the post?

Those are examples. You wanted examples, I provided examples. I'm not sitting here right now speaking to strategic investors in the club and publishing real-time information.

Those examples show how the system works. And like I said, it does work.

[Peter Millar]

6 minutes ago, David said:

Those are examples. You wanted examples, I provided examples. I'm not sitting here right now speaking to strategic investors in the club and publishing real-time information.

Those examples show how the system works. And like I said, it does work.

I didn’t ask for examples I think you might have provided them for someone else. I just commented on them. I think they can work too but just not at a level that can bring investment to the club that will provide meaningful sustainable growth. 

[David]

2 hours ago, Peter Millar said:

I didn’t ask for examples I think you might have provided them for someone else. I just commented on them. I think they can work too but just not at a level that can bring investment to the club that will provide meaningful sustainable growth. 

I believe they can. It's not just the investment itself, it's what the strategic aspect can provide. 

For example, the service provided by the strategic investor can potentially save us money in areas we're already spending in, and it can provide results that allow us to capitalise financially further down the line. Those investors become contacts for other investments and so on.

What I am virtually certain of, is that all of the information in the proposal document will more than allow the club to run sustainably, in profit, and without having to forfeit fan ownership. 

The previous Society board, perhaps well-intentioned, did not even scratch the surface as far as what can be done with our club model. Not even close.

What I would be interested in, is why people are not placing as much scrutiny on Barmack's offer? He has rocked up, offered £300k a year for almost half the club, the chairmanship, seats on the board, and with a demand that the Well Society find an extra £200k per year just to finance the club while he basically runs it.

And his ideas? 

An "of the shelf" AI software that can be implemented in a few weeks and costs in the low five figures in USD. The idea of taking one of our home games against one of the Old Firm to Wembley Stadium. He was also "incredulous" that the chairman wouldn't have a say in which players the club signs, and believes it would be within his remit to ask the club to sign and play two Latin American players simply because he has a contact that has a tequila company and would maybe want to sponsor us.

Let's be honest, if the Society had included anything like those above in their proposal, they'd have been eaten alive by the support, and by you. 

Yet, Barmack gets a pass. why is that?

[weeyin]

2 hours ago, Peter Millar said:

I’ve recently been involved in a community asset transfer process for a football pitch. After costs there’s not much left.

Opta stats are not the same as health information that is personal to you.

I don’t think ‘tough luck’ will cut it with many investors.

I appreciate you thought these up at short notice as examples.

"Tough luck" is what many savvy investors receive in the way of returns. That's why they diversify their portfolio. Sink money into multiple businesses knowing that many will return zero or close to, and hope the one or two that succeed will cover their losses. If all you have is 500k and sink that into a single business, you are a mug.

However, as I (and you) said, I literally came with up with those in under a minute. I have no doubt that given a few weeks we could come up with more concrete ideas. The biggest issue the Society has had in recent years, and the biggest issue I have had with the Society in recent years, is that they seem to have been doing nothing in this area. It's why I haven't voted for any of the incumbents in the past couple of elections.

But even if all my ideas are mince, it still feels that doing nothing at this point is much better than accepting the bad deal EB is offering. It's not like we are teetering on administration (which is what happened when JB was the single investor).

That's just my opinion though. It's only worth one vote, the same as the rest of the members.