Peter Millar Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 4 hours ago, David said: I believe they can. It's not just the investment itself, it's what the strategic aspect can provide. For example, the service provided by the strategic investor can potentially save us money in areas we're already spending in, and it can provide results that allow us to capitalise financially further down the line. Those investors become contacts for other investments and so on. What I am virtually certain of, is that all of the information in the proposal document will more than allow the club to run sustainably, in profit, and without having to forfeit fan ownership. The previous Society board, perhaps well-intentioned, did not even scratch the surface as far as what can be done with our club model. Not even close. What I would be interested in, is why people are not placing as much scrutiny on Barmack's offer? He has rocked up, offered £300k a year for almost half the club, the chairmanship, seats on the board, and with a demand that the Well Society find an extra £200k per year just to finance the club while he basically runs it. And his ideas? An "of the shelf" AI software that can be implemented in a few weeks and costs in the low five figures in USD. The idea of taking one of our home games against one of the Old Firm to Wembley Stadium. He was also "incredulous" that the chairman wouldn't have a say in which players the club signs, and believes it would be within his remit to ask the club to sign and play two Latin American players simply because he has a contact that has a tequila company and would maybe want to sponsor us. Let's be honest, if the Society had included anything like those above in their proposal, they'd have been eaten alive by the support, and by you. Yet, Barmack gets a pass. why is thav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Caldwell seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth. One day he's pro ownership, the next day he's refusing to promote the Well Society plan on the club's Social Media. It's sensible from his perspective but it shows he's not at all trustworthy in terms of representing fan ownership on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman1991 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 20 minutes ago, steelboy said: Caldwell seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth. One day he's pro ownership, the next day he's refusing to promote the Well Society plan on the club's Social Media. It's sensible from his perspective but it shows he's not at all trustworthy in terms of representing fan ownership on the board. He's not in his position to do that - that's surely the job of the WS reps elected on the Society ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 3 Author Report Share Posted July 3 6 hours ago, David said: What I would be interested in, is why people are not placing as much scrutiny on Barmack's offer?.........Yet, Barmack gets a pass. why is that? It depends on what "people" you mean David. Just to be clear, I don't have X (Twitter), although I'm on Fb. From what I've read on here and on P & B, there's been far more scrutiny of EB's proposal than there has been of the Society's strategy, which was only released to most folk yesterday. Yes, there are a few fans, and they are few in number from what I can see, primarily on Fb, who have pretty much nailed their colours to the mast in support of the Wild Sheep proposal. I would hope Society members will scrutinise the strategy and ask questions and submit comments. The drop in session tonight is a start. I'm pretty sure thats what the Society Board will want. There's nothing more soul destroying than putting a lot of time and effort into something only for some recipients to comment "its fine / its rubbish". It sounds impressive but is not perfect and will be improved by members' scrutiny. To be fair, I haven't seen many detailed criticisms of the strategy so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 4 hours ago, steelboy said: Caldwell seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth. One day he's pro ownership, the next day he's refusing to promote the Well Society plan on the club's Social Media. It's sensible from his perspective but it shows he's not at all trustworthy in terms of representing fan ownership on the board. This is a good example of why the structure of the club needs to be changed. The CEO was recommended to the Executive Board by the WS Board. But he was employed by the Executive Board who are categorically recommending the investment proposal. He could be the biggest supporter of fan ownership and the WS proposal that there is, but it would take a very brave man to speak freely under those circumstances. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 2 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: This is a good example of why the structure of the club needs to be changed. The CEO was recommended to the Executive Board by the WS Board. But he was employed by the Executive Board who are categorically recommending the investment proposal. He could be the biggest supporter if fan ownership and the WS proposal that there is, but it would take a very brave man to speak freely under those circumstances. In a nutshell👌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 23 minutes ago, steelman1991 said: He's not in his position to do that - that's surely the job of the WS reps elected on the Society ticket. The social media channels are controlled by club employees. Caldwell is responsible for those employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 30 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: It depends on what "people" you mean David. Just to be clear, I don't have X (Twitter), although I'm on Fb. From what I've read on here and on P & B, there's been far more scrutiny of EB's proposal than there has been of the Society's strategy, which was only released to most folk yesterday. Yes, there are a few fans, and they are few in number from what I can see, primarily on Fb, who have pretty much nailed their colours to the mast in support of the Wild Sheep proposal. I would hope Society members will scrutinise the strategy and ask questions and submit comments. The drop in session tonight is a start. I'm pretty sure thats what the Society Board will want. There's nothing more soul destroying than putting a lot of time and effort into something only for some recipients to comment "its fine / its rubbish". It sounds impressive but is not perfect and will be improved by members' scrutiny. To be fair, I haven't seen many detailed criticisms of the strategy so far. Im not on Twitter anymore either. But there is definitely more unqualified support for the Wild Sheep proposal on FB than there is on here or P&B. There are some offering reasonable scrutiny towards the WS proposal and that is to be welcomed, as you say, as it will allow for a robust process and the improvement of what of the face of it seems a genuine vision for the future of the club. The problem with the Wild Sheep proposal is that, other than the financials or the board make up theres not a lot more to scrutinise (although those in themselves should be enough to vote against). Ive also heard a lot if people comment that the WS proposals wont work as they havent worked up til now. There seems to be a misapprehension of how the WS was operated before, why it was operated that way, and why its no longer being operated that way. The Well Society changed for the better last October folks! The new people involved are younger, more enthusiastic, full of new skills and ideas. They are no longer happy to be sidelined and payed lip service by the executive board. A vote against the Wild Sheep proposal isnt a vote for no change. Its a vote to give the Well Society the chance it always should have had to be a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 8 minutes ago, steelboy said: The social media channels are controlled by club employees. Caldwell is responsible for those employees. But who employs and is responsible for the CEO? Surely they are the final arbiters of what goes out? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman1991 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, steelboy said: The social media channels are controlled by club employees. Caldwell is responsible for those employees. He's employed by the Club and I would expect him to take direction from the Executive Board, who hired him. Think you're being overly critical of someone who's position doesn't exist to jump to the tune of the Society, or it's members. This disconnect between WS and Board is everything that's wrong with the current issues we're having. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villageman Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 I get the feeling that those critics of the WS plan would would not be so if it included the sentence. " We will provide £1.9 m over 6 years. " Or am I being cynical. Those same critics do not believe the WS plan will increase future financial support, yet do not seem to have the same doubt the WS CAN provide £1.35m + required under Wild Sheep investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 15 minutes ago, Villageman said: I get the feeling that those critics of the WS plan would would not be so if it included the sentence. " We will provide £1.9 m over 6 years. " Or am I being cynical. Those same critics do not believe the WS plan will increase future financial support, yet do not seem to have the same doubt the WS CAN provide £1.35m + required under Wild Sheep investment. I wouldn't say you are, no. I think there's also a willful ignorance from some as to what happens if/when the Society can't keep up its mutual investment in the Club. I'm also hoping/expecting the Business Plan which the WS will be releasing in support of their proposal to cover this kind of thing off; so the key performance metrics, investment plans/returns for investors etc. will detail what targets the're proposing to have and how they're going to look at meeting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman1991 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 I hope the WS are closely monitoring this thread and P&B, because there is clearly a wealth of talented individuals, in the support, who have their finger on the pulse and are extremely "swtiched on". They have to try and engage these folks and persuade them to get involved directly with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 3 minutes ago, steelman1991 said: I hope the WS are closely monitoring this thread and P&B, because there is clearly a wealth of talented individuals, in the support, who have their finger on the pulse and are extremely "swtiched on". They have to try and engage these folks and persuade them to get involved directly with them. I think there's a fair few posters on here and there who already are. I would expect quite a few to go along tonight if they're able to as well and have a discussion with the Board to try and develop ideas/understand them better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Only one question to be answered tonight . Who gave Jim McMahon permission to try and sell our club and why is he still there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 3 Author Report Share Posted July 3 38 minutes ago, steelman1991 said: I hope the WS are closely monitoring this thread and P&B, because there is clearly a wealth of talented individuals, in the support, who have their finger on the pulse and are extremely "swtiched on". They have to try and engage these folks and persuade them to get involved directly with them. Absolutely. However my concern is that although there are many talented and motivated individuals online just now where will they be in 6, 12 or 18 months time when volunteers are needed on matchdays and winter evenings. The Society has always struggled to get volunteers out. I sincerely hope that will change. The Society Board can come up with bright ideas but the membership has to be involved at a bread and butter level to make them work. As a start, I hope there will be a Society presence at the match on Saturday. Strike while the iron is hot and engage with the troops on the ground. That will be a good start to getting folks on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: But who employs and is responsible for the CEO? Surely they are the final arbiters of what goes out? The day to day running of the club and dealing with employees is the CEO. If the Executive Board have officially directed Caldwell to bury the plan online that's a huge red flag against them. If he's done it off his own back it's a black mark against him. We'll find out tonight. People at the club beyond McMahon obviously want this to go through. Suzanne Read and Bob Park are very clearly pro Barmack on social media. It's extremely unprofessional but that's their MO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 Well, they've read it, everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 2 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: Well, they've read it, everyone. A pathetic 'statement' prompted by many fans pointing out the Club's failure to post the Well Society's plan on the Club's socials yesterday. Get it right fucking up McMahon and cronies, and good riddance when it comes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwell Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 That “we’ve already been doing some of this” has really annoyed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 8 minutes ago, wellfan said: A pathetic 'statement' prompted by many fans pointing out the Club's failure to post the Well Society's plan on the Club's socials yesterday. Get it right fucking up McMahon and cronies, and good riddance when it comes. Aye. Dont let the door hit you on the arse on the way out! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 3 minutes ago, Tamwell said: That “we’ve already been doing some of this” has really annoyed me. Aye. It's basically them saying "we've already thought of this, ner ner ner". I'm sure they are; some of it is business as usual stuff to an extent (season tickets renewals/promotions etc.) but it reads so high and fucking mighty. If they'd "already been doing some of this" we wouldn't be in the fucking mess we're in, you bunch of fucking charlatans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 What a shower of patronising bastards,that mcmahon is getting right on my tits now,he's out to do maximum damage before he eventually fucks off.when the time comes him and the rest of them should never be allowed to step foot in fir park ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 2 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: Aye. It's basically them saying "we've already thought of this, ner ner ner". I'm sure they are; some of it is business as usual stuff to an extent (season tickets renewals/promotions etc.) but it reads so high and fucking mighty. If they'd "already been doing some of this" we wouldn't be in the fucking mess we're in, you bunch of fucking charlatans. McMahon has shown himself to be a bitter, arrogant, condescending prick through this debacle and will now leave his position with a very stained legacy. What a fucking idiot. It's all been entirely unnecessary and avoidable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted July 3 Report Share Posted July 3 3 minutes ago, wellfan said: McMahon has shown himself to be a bitter, arrogant, condescending prick through this debacle and will now leave his position with a very stained legacy. What a fucking idiot. It's all been entirely unnecessary and avoidable. He'll leave with a legacy that's deserving of his attitude towards anyone he sees as intellectually inferior to himself and his inability to do anything of note, other than publish a shite novel and use the Club to promote it. He had a real opportunity to unite the fan base behind fan ownership and to develop the Club into a proper community asset and has been found wanting, along with several of his pals who have supported him throughout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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