wellgirl Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 2 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: Just going to say this folks......this time last year we had signed Bair and forum was on meltdown. Roll on a year and we have sold him for an amazing fee. Basically I am saying let's all relax and see how we are sitting once new players settle in and we add a new faces. And let's not start singling put players again......Paton seems to be the next target but giving him stick ain't gonna help. COYW Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 3 minutes ago, grizzlyg said: And let's not start singling put players again......Paton seems to be the next target but giving him stick ain't gonna help. It's not Paton's fault that he's not an attacking midfielder; it's Kettlewell's fault for playing him as one. The blame for Paton getting a target on his back lies squarely at the manager's door. As should all squad failures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 8 minutes ago, Mootherwell86 said: With the amount of signings we’ve made it was never going to gel over night. The balance of the squad is clearly not quite right. We haven’t added enough pace or energy into the team and that’ll need to be rectified before the end of the window. I reckon we’re a striker, 2 attacking midfielders and an athletic box-to-box midfielder from having a decent squad. I agree with a lot of points being made by @steelboy but that type of short term thinking and poor governance is the reason we’ve struggled for the last few years. Let’s see how we’re looking in October… I think that would be the concern. The number of signings that have been made and yet you're still saying that we haven't added enough pace and energy. Are we going to manage it with the last two or three? For what it's worth, I actually think Stuperavic could be an answer to the creativity issue if we're going to persevere with two behind a lone striker. He was passing the ball with a bit of zip on Saturday and at least trying to drive at people. My own preference though would be to go 352 and play with two quick wing backs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 There can be no excuses for not beating Montrose tonight with the blame lying at the managers door . 1 up front and a midfield that never made a chance all game is a big problem . Need plenty changes on Saturday but I don’t think the manager will do that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spit_It_Out Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Pretty clear we are lacking creativity and needs to be addressed soon. Haliday is never a starter for us he will struggle to see out the season best use of him would be coming on for last 15 minutes maximum.He looks like he is already on fumes soon as a game kicks off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 I see Kettlewell has blamed the lack of creativity in the final third and individual errors for costing us the victory tonight. No shit Sherlock. The latter point is a fair comment to make, but the former is on him. How many players has he signed now?! The single striker with no creative attacker(s) to support them for the majority of the games is the problem. We’ve seen this script before. If he starts with a single striker again on Saturday, we can only hope he also starts Stuparevic as the creative connector behind them, because insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Big game on Saturday now to turn it around. The League Cup is and should be massively important to a club of our size, and, by Kettlewell’s own words, we should be beating every team in the leagues below us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Just back in from the game, we were hopeless tonight, dominated possession against a team with 11 behind the ball at all times and we created nothing. 2 games, 4 goals all from defenders, playing 1 up front is a nonsense, we seem to be back to the dark days of last seasons winless run, absolutely no serious goal threat. You could see montrose growing g in confidence for about 10 mins before they scored and all they did was kick it long and get into the box and we could not cope with it, Oxborough's finger tips stopping another goal but we continued to sit back and never learned the lesson. I looked at the match stats, we had 11 shots with only 2 on target, Montrose had 2 shots and 2 on target ffs. SK needs a big reaction from the team on Saturday, the lone striker approach is not working, neither Robinson or Ebiye can do it so maybe Stuparavic alongside one of them might work. If not I hope we have another striker incoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 1 hour ago, Yodo said: There can be no excuses for not beating Montrose tonight with the blame lying at the managers door . 1 up front and a midfield that never made a chance all game is a big problem . Need plenty changes on Saturday but I don’t think the manager will do that Agreed. Decisions off the pitch cost us. I think SK got the balance between pre season gametime/experiments and serious cup competitveness a bit wrong. We've now displayed similar failings against Livingston, Edinburgh City and now Montrose. There seemed to be a lack of urgency tonight and the game had a pre season friendly, stroll in the park, feel about it. Just read Spiderpig's response and I agree with that. The way things are shaping up, we will have to beat Partick to finish top of the group, and I'm far from confident we will do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 12 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: Agreed. Decisions off the pitch cost us. I think SK got the balance between pre season gametime/experiments and serious cup competitveness a bit wrong. We've now displayed similar failings against Livingston, Edinburgh City and now Montrose. There seemed to be a lack of urgency tonight and the game had a pre season friendly, stroll in the park, feel about it. Just read Spiderpig's response and I agree with that. The way things are shaping up, we will have to beat Partick to finish top of the group, and I'm far from confident we will do that. It's all very well getting minutes into legs but I think Kettlewell now needs to think about what his starting 11 for the league is going to be and start planning his team selection around that in the next 2 games.Hard when we're obviously carrying some injuries to potential starters I know. We were always going to have to get a result against Partick to win the group unless they have a 'mare against Clyde or Edinburgh City so a dropped point tonight hasn't really changed that. Like everyone else says play with 2 strikers please and stop all this sideways and backwards passing. Bad enough suffering it for 2 weeks at the Euros. Anyway a good day out at the seaside in spite of the result and performance. Thought there was more at the game than announced(a tad over 1000 I think but someone correct me if that's wrong).Good Motherwell support up for a Tuesday night. A mate text me to say he felt seasick watching the coverage as the camera was all over the place??. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 The gaffer says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 5 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: The way things are shaping up, we will have to beat Partick to finish top of the group, and I'm far from confident we will do that. It's not just about that. We should be looking to get a seeded place which common sense tells you this season will likely require 12 points and good goal difference. Last season he was greeting about Kevin Clancy blowing a few minutes early in a game because of our goal difference. This season he wasted full two games where we should have been racking up goals because he wants to do a Steve Clarke impresonation for some reason. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 4 hours ago, SteelmaninOZ said: The gaffer says Scott asked him if he was considering changing the formation and he started waffling about Theo Bair. An imposter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 I didn’t think we were particularly bad last night, certainly for this time of year and better from what I can recall from the trip to QoS last season. Interesting few weeks ahead. If the box midfield is going to remain plan A, then I’d like to think that we are holding out for attack minded players of a certain standard to replace Spittal’s quality and bring a bit of dynamism to the final third. Similarly, athletic wingbacks with good delivery are key to the success of this system. We did very well finding Spencer and Gent last summer but both arrived in the last week of the window. Hopefully there is a Gent replacement around the corner, ideally Georgie himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 10 hours ago, Throughthelaces said: Well our seedlings essentially gone so If we get through the group top we’ve the old firm or Killie or st Mirren to look forward to. It’s a simple matter to me that we’re a premiership side and we should be winning these games comfortably. I’d have took 1-0 and been quite happy but that was an appalling result To be honest being seeded for the last 16 in this competition hasn’t given us much in the way of benefit in previous years. We were seeded last year and got paired with St.Mirren away. In the past we’ve been seeded and got Hearts, Ross County and Dundee. If we did manage to get out of this group then we won’t be going any further than the last 16 regardless of who we get, you can set your watch by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted July 17 Author Report Share Posted July 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 9 hours ago, santheman said: A mate text me to say he felt seasick watching the coverage as the camera was all over the place??. The quality of the coverage was appalling. The single camera was all over the place and completely out of focus, particularly at the start. Displaying it on a screen larger than an iPad led to seasickness. Not worth a tenner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Not a lot to say about last night's game at a macro level that hasn't already been said, but here are some additional thoughts. I thought we had the capability to move up a gear or two but didn't do so until Montrose equalised and twisted our arm into doing so. Oxborough was my MOTM. Very confident in the air; pulled off one incredible save and saved a penalty in the shoot out. Gordon impressed, with his leadership at the back as did Lennon Miller in midfield. Robinson looked fine but not really fair to judge him given his lack of service. We struggled at wing back through lack of pace and that affected our attacking threat. Again a wee bit disappointed in Ewan Wilson. I was really looking forward to him developing. Didn't do much wrong last night but was never really an attacking threat, apart from one occasion. Paton was all over the place and not his usual self. Halliday still fails to impress. I know he's a young lad but I still don't get what SK sees in Mark Ferrie. He came on as a sub a few times last term and looked out of his depth and last night was hardly seen when he came on latish, but before Stuparevic - maybe just me. As on last Saturday the referee stopped the game after 90 minutes exactly. No additional time despite umpteen subs being made. Is this some kind of official instruction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellfan Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 20 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said: We struggled at wing back through lack of pace and that affected our attacking threat. Again a wee bit disappointed in Ewan Wilson. I was really looking forward to him developing. Didn't do much wrong last night but was never really an attacking threat, apart from one occasion. Paton was all over the place and not his usual self. Halliday still fails to impress. I know he's a young lad but I still don't get what SK sees in Mark Ferrie. He came on as a sub a few times last term and looked out of his depth and last night was hardly seen when he came on latish, but before Stuparevic - maybe just me. Wilson has done okay and hasn't made any mistakes of note, but he's no Georgie Gent, and the latter is the type of player required for Kettlewell's system to be effective. I'd say that Wilson is probably more comfortable at LB than LWB, and that this is his season to impress Kettlewell or be moved on. It's a tough one. Paton is a central midfielder and was all over the place because Kettlewell is trying to convert him into Spittal. Spoiler alert: it's not working. Halliday has a good footballing brain but his body is miles behind that now, which makes him a very limited player, although he's likely useful in certain limited scenarios. However, unless injuries dictate, Halliday, Davor, and Paton should not be starting at the same time. We need creativity. Just imagine we didn't have a 17 year old to hold shit together amongst them?! Speaking of youngsters, I'm looking forward to Wells getting more minutes in the attacking midfield role, but he needs to be managed appropriately. Ferrie needs to go out on loan and get a lot of first-team minutes. He's not close to being ready for the Premiership level, so I don't think it's fair to judge him too harshly yet. I also have no idea what type of attacker he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Quick summary from me. Starting XI: Ox didn't do much wrong and made a good save onto the post and took some crosses well. SODs was alright but was barely given the ball in behind when he made runs to try and give us some width. Casey was laborious in possession and when he did have it, his passing was pretty haphazard, or sideways. I lost count of how many times SODs made a run to give Casey the option to chip/dink it in behind and he didn't take it once. Blaney was fine up until the goal; he absolutely shouldn't be getting turned in that position. He was better than Casey on the ball and looked more composed with it at his feet, to me. Gordon impressed me; his communication was excellent and definitely feels like what was missing last season. I expect him to start in the middle of the three with Balmer and McGinn and Blaney as first back-up. Wilson hasn't convinced me that he's got the pace or desire to get beyond a man in the last two games, which worries me given we're so reliant on our wing backs to provide the width and pace in our team. He's the definition of a full back playing as a wing back. Davor did his job; it's not eye catching, but it's effective. Miller did well but his frustration at the lack of anything happening in front of him became clear; he had a go from 25 yards when he could've slid SODs in to get in behind in the second half. Paton continues to baffle me; I've no idea how Kettlewell thinks he's a 10. He's at best a 6 or an 8 but even then he's not got all the attributes you need to play either role. He seems to always get on the ball but also simultaneously be hiding from it. When he does get it, everything slows down, to the point where the opposition can regroup and defend as a unit again. This happened loads last season, too. Halliday was busy and did OK at times but he's absolutely not a 10. He does look to be fitter and slightly quicker than last season but he's more of a sitting midfielder these days, I would say. Robinson did well with very little service and put himself about; looks like he's got a good bit of pace as well and he drove forward with the ball when he could. Similar to Miller in that you could see his frustration building with lack of support/options around him. He played some good balls over the back only for Paton (that man again) to have checked his run or not made what was a fairly obvious 1-2 type move happen. Subs: In general, they were all made too late to make any kind of impact, but: Moses is the definition of chaos and I'm here for it. He did have some nice touches and took the ball into feet a few times, which was encouraging. Ferrie didn't do anything to impress me; he was far too eager to go down for the penalty when he could've easily gotten a shot away. He definitely needs time away on loan where he can "learn" what he needs to be doing in those situations. Stuparevic had some nice touches and looked to drive forwards with the ball at their back line which we'd missed all night; 2 minutes of action though? Really? Assuming it was for penalties more than anything. Big man loves oversize shorts, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 We still have about 6 first team contenders that haven't kicked a ball yet and some that aren't at a fitness level to start matches. I don't agree with the notion that you should treat these games as pre-season friendlies but you have to take into consideration that it is July. Players simply won't be anywhere near match day levels until August. We need players in but there is loads of time to do that and I'd rather wait and bring in the right person than rush a signing in to play against Clyde. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villageman Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 10 hours ago, santheman said: It's all very well getting minutes into legs but I think Kettlewell now needs to think about what his starting 11 for the league is going to be and start planning his team selection around that in the next 2 games.Hard when we're obviously carrying some injuries to potential starters I know. We were always going to have to get a result against Partick to win the group unless they have a 'mare against Clyde or Edinburgh City so a dropped point tonight hasn't really changed that. Like everyone else says play with 2 strikers please and stop all this sideways and backwards passing. Bad enough suffering it for 2 weeks at the Euros. Anyway a good day out at the seaside in spite of the result and performance. Thought there was more at the game than announced(a tad over 1000 I think but someone correct me if that's wrong).Good Motherwell support up for a Tuesday night. A mate text me to say he felt seasick watching the coverage as the camera was all over the place??. What concerns me is he seems on the evidence of admittedly only 3 games. It is a goalkeeper, any one striker supported by Halliday and Paton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennyc Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 8 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said: Quick summary from me. Starting XI: Ox didn't do much wrong and made a good save onto the post and took some crosses well. SODs was alright but was barely given the ball in behind when he made runs to try and give us some width. Casey was laborious in possession and when he did have it, his passing was pretty haphazard, or sideways. I lost count of how many times SODs made a run to give Casey the option to chip/dink it in behind and he didn't take it once. Blaney was fine up until the goal; he absolutely shouldn't be getting turned in that position. He was better than Casey on the ball and looked more composed with it at his feet, to me. Gordon impressed me; his communication was excellent and definitely feels like what was missing last season. I expect him to start in the middle of the three with Balmer and McGinn and Blaney as first back-up. Wilson hasn't convinced me that he's got the pace or desire to get beyond a man in the last two games, which worries me given we're so reliant on our wing backs to provide the width and pace in our team. He's the definition of a full back playing as a wing back. Davor did his job; it's not eye catching, but it's effective. Miller did well but his frustration at the lack of anything happening in front of him became clear; he had a go from 25 yards when he could've slid SODs in to get in behind in the second half. Paton continues to baffle me; I've no idea how Kettlewell thinks he's a 10. He's at best a 6 or an 8 but even then he's not got all the attributes you need to play either role. He seems to always get on the ball but also simultaneously be hiding from it. When he does get it, everything slows down, to the point where the opposition can regroup and defend as a unit again. This happened loads last season, too. Halliday was busy and did OK at times but he's absolutely not a 10. He does look to be fitter and slightly quicker than last season but he's more of a sitting midfielder these days, I would say. Robinson did well with very little service and put himself about; looks like he's got a good bit of pace as well and he drove forward with the ball when he could. Similar to Miller in that you could see his frustration building with lack of support/options around him. He played some good balls over the back only for Paton (that man again) to have checked his run or not made what was a fairly obvious 1-2 type move happen. Subs: In general, they were all made too late to make any kind of impact, but: Moses is the definition of chaos and I'm here for it. He did have some nice touches and took the ball into feet a few times, which was encouraging. Ferrie didn't do anything to impress me; he was far too eager to go down for the penalty when he could've easily gotten a shot away. He definitely needs time away on loan where he can "learn" what he needs to be doing in those situations. Stuparevic had some nice touches and looked to drive forwards with the ball at their back line which we'd missed all night; 2 minutes of action though? Really? Assuming it was for penalties more than anything. Big man loves oversize shorts, too. This is exactly how I saw things. Playing Paton as the main support for a lone striker is insane. In fairness to the lad he ran himself into the ground trying to play a role he is just not suited to. I lost count of the number of times the ball fell to him in the box only for the move to end right there, or for him to be 'inches away' from getting a decisive touch. He does not have the natural instincts of a goalscorer or set up man. But 100% for effort. Regards Halliday. I don't think he did much wrong and he was certainly not our poorest player on the night. Noticeably we lost control of midfield when he went off. I would rather he had stayed on a bit longer with Stuparavic being introduced earlier for a shattered Paton. Ferry is just not ready and why he was brought on baffles me. That said Robinson and Moses both missed great chances to kill the game off. I think Kettlewell believed the game was won at one nil as Montrose had shown no sign of being able to test our defence. So rather than wait until the tie was sealed he decided to experiment. Why else start switching the defence around and change the shape of the midfield. Tinkering that went wrong, unsettled our defence and gave Montrose hope. Truth be told they should have....and maybe did.... score before they did. The referee, Colin Stephen?, was a joke. Sadly that is the standard we will have to suffer throughout the season. A game thrown away. And not just by the players. Steelboy has compared our approach to that of Clarke's Scotland set up. I can see what he is referring to. In so many ways. And I don't see it changing any time soon. Not a good ending to a day which started out so well with the Wild Sheep and Bair news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 17 minutes ago, dennyc said: Ferry is just not ready and why he was brought on baffles me. That said Robinson and Moses both missed great chances to kill the game off. I think Kettlewell believed the game was won at one nil as Montrose had shown no sign of being able to test our defence. So rather than wait until the tie was sealed he decided to experiment. Why else start switching the defence around and change the shape of the midfield. Tinkering that went wrong, unsettled our defence and gave Montrose hope. Truth be told they should have....and maybe did.... score before they did. Good posts Denny & StAndrew7. Thats my thoughts exactly. I think SK made a miscalculation. A lot of us saw Montrose equalising long before they did but obviously SK didn't. Some odd substitutions that turned the game, but not in a positive way. Would have liked to have seen Stupavaric appear long before he did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 49 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said: We still have about 6 first team contenders that haven't kicked a ball yet and some that aren't at a fitness level to start matches. I don't see anyone who is injured who's going to turn this team around. Hibs, Airdrie and Dundee are all scoring goals. We have come out and barely getting a shot on target against two part time teams who didn't look great but handled us easily in open play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andalg Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 We have lost 28 goals and 17 assists with Bair & Spittal gone so not surprising were struggling for creativity. Attacking midfielders are the priority if we are going to play with just one striker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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