wellgirl Posted August 3 Report Share Posted August 3 3 minutes ago, MJC said: Our attendances are never going to increase regardless of the product on the park. Regardless of prices and financial climate our support is lazy and apathetic and has been for as long as I can remember. We have fans who just aren’t interested in going to run of the mill games but will come out of the woodwork for Cup finals and European games. And let me be as clear as I possible can be here. I am not talking about people who for whatever reason can’t go to games be that location, money etc. that’s their business. I am talking about people who absolutely could be at the game but they just don’t go, instead they’d rather sit in the pub or go to the bowling, the golf, the races or whatever. I’m sure most of us know at least one person who falls into that category. The sad reality is we are a poorly supported club and nothing that happens on or off the park will ever change that. You aren't wrong but there must be reasons for that - why people aren't engaging - because when we get to a semi final or a final everyone comes out in their numbers (typed that and just saw you said the same).- we pay over the odds to watch a game. If it's a choice between paying 24 quid or watching it on tv of in the pub then some folk will take the cheaper option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted August 3 Report Share Posted August 3 Yes because Semis/finals and a big day out at Hampden are appealing in themselves, the same goes for Euro games. But league games against Ross County or St.Johnstone don’t have that glamour and it seems that it’s that glamour and appeal that a lot of our ‘supporters’ really care about, not the club itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 1 hour ago, MJC said: Our attendances are never going to increase regardless of the product on the park. Regardless of prices and financial climate our support is lazy and apathetic and has been for as long as I can remember. We have fans who just aren’t interested in going to run of the mill games but will come out of the woodwork for Cup finals and European games. And let me be as clear as I possible can be here. I am not talking about people who for whatever reason can’t go to games be that location, money etc. that’s their business. I am talking about people who absolutely could be at the game but they just don’t go, instead they’d rather sit in the pub or go to the bowling, the golf, the races or whatever. I’m sure most of us know at least one person who falls into that category. The sad reality is we are a poorly supported club and nothing that happens on or off the park will ever change that. Don't think any of those things are exclusive to Motherwell's support. Probably applies to all teams at all levels. We have a limited support but I don't think we are 'poorly' supported. In a Scottish context we are probably a Top 10 club and probably only Kilmarnock and Falkirk get slighlty better supports from all the non city clubs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 6 hours ago, wellgirl said: They've said they will but I've said this before. A lot of people can't afford to go. If it comes to people being skint and paying 24 quid to see a football game or spending it elsewhere then then a lot of people will opt out. That financial side doesn't seem to be affecting other teams to the same degree. A lot more St Mirren fans can appear to afford to go to the games - please don't anyone give us the free ticket pish as the reason for St Mirrens increased attendances - that's just not true, same with Dundee and Kilmarnock who've all seen a significant up turn in attendances. I accept they have had successful seasons however even on successful seasons our attendances barely fluctuate 500 a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirParkCornerExile Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said: Don't think any of those things are exclusive to Motherwell's support. Probably applies to all teams at all levels. We have a limited support but I don't think we are 'poorly' supported. In a Scottish context we are probably a Top 10 club and probably only Kilmarnock and Falkirk get slighlty better supports from all the non city clubs. St Mirren , Kilmarnock, Dundee are bucking that trend , all have seen significant improvement in the home support. St Mirren are averaging nearly 1000 a match more than us and its not free tickets before anyone offers this as a reason, there is zero evidence to back up that claim. https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/sco-premiership-2023-2024/1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 58 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said: St Mirren , Kilmarnock, Dundee are bucking that trend , all have seen significant improvement in the home support. St Mirren are averaging nearly 1000 a match more than us and its not free tickets before anyone offers this as a reason, there is zero evidence to back up that claim. https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/sco-premiership-2023-2024/1/ They claimed 5800 for the 0-0 game last December. There's no way the crowd was that big. That's 73% full which looking at this video it obviously isn't. The dodgy charity gets money from the Scottish Government which they then use to buy St Mirren that don't get used. That's how the Scottish economy works these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 What was pretty plain on Monday night SK doesn’t like to be criticised or questioned on his tactics . I thought he was very arrogant to the 92 year gentleman who told him the result was down to him and it was the worst display he’d seen in years . Unfortunately for SK it’s not a popularity contest but a results driven business he won’t be allowed to go on a run of no wins like last season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellon Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 13 hours ago, stv said: He can’t cross in a decent ball with any concistancey . Once he gets towards the 18 yrd line more oftren than not it’s backwards or a wee pass inside. Oh for the days when a wide man ,beat the first defender and just ran towards the line and crossed it over. Other parts of his game are passable. Wilson looked enthusiastic. Yep, I've always thought he was suspect defensively, just said I've seen him worse than yesterday's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellon Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 9 hours ago, wellfan said: If the club is serious about increasing its fanbase and, therefore, home crowds and revenue, it seriously needs to consider employing a manager who knows what they're doing. No amount of excellent work by the WS and the new CEO will change that, as fans want to be entertained, even in defeat. This isn't a reactionary view based on the League Cup or today; rather, it's based on a view of Kettlewell's entire tenure, which indicates to me that there's been no real progress made in terms of the overall team performance and identity. He did well with Bair, for example, which I've acknowledged, so it's clear to me that he can coach players at some level and generate success in that aspect. However, a manager needs to be more than that. They need to be tactically astute. I understand why Kettlewell is still here and had his contract renewed, and that's simply because the club board has shown itself to be incompetent in recent times. Asleep at the wheel, perhaps, and taking the easy option due to the poorly managed clusterfuck surrounding Alexander and Hammell. So, here we are, and it's groundhog day. Ultimately, and unlike Alexander, Kettlewell isn't an arrogant prick and he seems to work hard, but he's just not very good at managing a top flight football team, and that's a shame. Taking last season into account, and given there's only one year left on his contract, I think it's a matter of when and not if now. Unless he has a good first half of the season, the calls for him to be replaced as we approach January will be deafening. It's probably fair to say that match day attendances will only continue to stagnate, at best, if he continues to serve up crap and sign duds and crocks. We'll reap what we sow. The attendances weren't much better when robbo had us 3rd in league...now he's got st mirren gig and they seem to be on the up. There'll be a lot of factors affecting attendance, the 1st half yesterday wouldn't really encourage me if I was on the fence , I don't think sk style of football is that big a factor. We got around 5k first game after winning cup, it's just where we are Good luck to anyone who tries anything though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 The club have tried everything to increase our gates but to no avail. Be it free tickets for kids, bring a friend for a fiver and John Boyle’s £5 for adults £1 for kids when he took over, our attendances never increased. And onfield success like winning the Scottish Cup and finishing 2nd two years running did nothing to increase it either. The simple truth is that outwith the small faithful core of diehards who never miss home games our overall support is poor. We have lazy, fair weather fans who turn up for Cup finals and trips to Hampden (a lot of whom shout long and loud about how big a Well fan they are and who they are so superior to Old Firm glory hunters without a shred of irony or self awareness ) but run of the mill games they are nowhere to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 11 minutes ago, MJC said: The club have tried everything to increase our gates but to no avail. Be it free tickets for kids, bring a friend for a fiver and John Boyle’s £5 for adults £1 for kids when he took over, our attendances never increased. And onfield success like winning the Scottish Cup and finishing 2nd two years running did nothing to increase it either. The simple truth is that outwith the small faithful core of diehards who never miss home games our overall support is poor. We have lazy, fair weather fans who turn up for Cup finals and trips to Hampden (a lot of whom shout long and loud about how big a Well fan they are and who they are so superior to Old Firm glory hunters without a shred of irony or self awareness ) but run of the mill games they are nowhere to be seen. I include myself as a "partially" lapsed fan. I've been to Edinburgh City and Montrose this season, so 40% of them; I reckon I probably make it to about 30-50% of our home games and the odd away trip over a season. I had a season ticket as a boy, then stopped it when I started doing first aid cover with St Andrews at the games. When I stopped that never took up a ST again. Part of that was financial, part of that was down to not being able to attend games for personal reasons. There was a decent thread over on P&B about "Your Limits" and I said that for me, a ticket package of a run of home games with a bit of a discount would be ideal. For example, I now know that I won't be at many games over the next couple of months, as the our first baby is going to arrive any day now. But come November/December/January I'd definitely think about buying a 3-5 match package to cover games I know I can make and can have a plan around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 9 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said: St Mirren , Kilmarnock, Dundee are bucking that trend , all have seen significant improvement in the home support. St Mirren are averaging nearly 1000 a match more than us and its not free tickets before anyone offers this as a reason, there is zero evidence to back up that claim. https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/sco-premiership-2023-2024/1/ Kilmarnock have always been a slightly bigger club and Dundee are a city club. St. Mirren are having their best spell of form in decades, it remains to be seen what happens when they drop off but let's also remember that Paisley is a much bigger town than Motherwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couttsy Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 The Dundee Derby showing up just how poor our midfield was yesterday. Both teams have mobile midfield players bursting forward, the exact opposite of us. Fortunately both also look shaky at the back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mio Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 10 minutes ago, couttsy said: The Dundee Derby showing up just how poor our midfield was yesterday. Both teams have mobile midfield players bursting forward, the exact opposite of us. Fortunately both also look shaky at the back! Both teams are absolutely miles ahead of us in my opinion. dont want to be a doom merchant but it’ll be a fight this season between us ross county and st Johnstone. To lose out on 2 points yesterday was not good. Just hoping we get a few midfielders back (as those on display yesterday, apart from miller, will not do) and AP turns out to be a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 2 hours ago, StAndrew7 said: I include myself as a "partially" lapsed fan. I've been to Edinburgh City and Montrose this season, so 40% of them; I reckon I probably make it to about 30-50% of our home games and the odd away trip over a season. I had a season ticket as a boy, then stopped it when I started doing first aid cover with St Andrews at the games. When I stopped that never took up a ST again. Part of that was financial, part of that was down to not being able to attend games for personal reasons. There was a decent thread over on P&B about "Your Limits" and I said that for me, a ticket package of a run of home games with a bit of a discount would be ideal. For example, I now know that I won't be at many games over the next couple of months, as the our first baby is going to arrive any day now. But come November/December/January I'd definitely think about buying a 3-5 match package to cover games I know I can make and can have a plan around. Life happens, I get that. People have genuine reasons why they can’t get to games regularly or atall. But there are fans out there who could be at Fir Park but instead opt for the pub/the golf/the bowls etc. That’s their choice obviously, but the it’s just a pity that we have a lot of fans who don’t prioritise going to support the team and the club. 1 minute ago, mio said: Both teams are absolutely miles ahead of us in my opinion. dont want to be a doom merchant but it’ll be a fight this season between us ross county and st Johnstone. To lose out on 2 points yesterday was not good. Just hoping we get a few midfielders back (as those on display yesterday, apart from miller, will not do) and AP turns out to be a player. Correct, both Dundee sides look significantly better than us. Both have better forward options and both have players who can create opportunities for those forward players. And both have better managers than we have. It’s going to be a long, tough and uncomfortable season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodo Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 6 minutes ago, mio said: Both teams are absolutely miles ahead of us in my opinion. dont want to be a doom merchant but it’ll be a fight this season between us ross county and st Johnstone. To lose out on 2 points yesterday was not good. Just hoping we get a few midfielders back (as those on display yesterday, apart from miller, will not do) and AP turns out to be a player. We have no quality midfielders apart from Miller at the club the rest are jobworths and crocks who Kettlewell has signed . Need some good loan players in soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spit_It_Out Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 12 minutes ago, mio said: Both teams are absolutely miles ahead of us in my opinion. dont want to be a doom merchant but it’ll be a fight this season between us ross county and st Johnstone. To lose out on 2 points yesterday was not good. Just hoping we get a few midfielders back (as those on display yesterday, apart from miller, will not do) and AP turns out to be a player. Yep 17 year old Miller can't be expected to carry that midfield on his own needs some help and he isn't going to get that from Halliday that's for sure. Hope Kettlewell uses the loans to get some help in the midfield and add a creative spark to the squad. I shall say one thing I am so pleased with big Ox in goal think he will turn out good for us.Early doors but isn't shy about coming off his line which is a good thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 20 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: I felt very sorry for Lennon Miller today. Despite me being 15 minutes late, I saw him suffer 3 very bad tackles before half time. He simply looked intimidated and should have been hooked at half time for his own good. Totally agree. He’s the only real creative player we have at the club. The opposition know this and know that if they stop him playing (by fair means or foul) then we’ve no other threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuwell2 Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 RC are a big team set up to sit back, defend / bully and hope to get something on the break / set pieces. We can expect StJ, StM, Killie and both Dundee teams to do similar when they come to FP. I always thought we looked better away from home against those teams - Dutd apart - last season as those teams were more likely to attack us more when at home. The OF apart against Aberdeen and the Edinburgh clubs were the only ones to have a go at us at FP. I think that last season we would have lost yesterday’s game so I suppose we should be taking some good from that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 St Mirren have done a few deals in the last couple of seasons. 24 quid for 2 adults and up to 20 under 12's from youth groups/teams. 200 season tickets given out (2 to every primary school in Renfrewshire). I believe that the Kibble Trust also give out free tickets to disadvantaged kids in the area. All these incentives will have added to their gates although having a good couple of seasons playing well and having European football will also have had a positive effect. Maybe we need to look at doing similar things (or possibly we already do?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 Clubs like St Mirren and Kilmarnock suffer the same issue as we do ie we all play in west central Scotland and as such the vast majority of the football fans are following the ugly sisters. As far as I can recall our support has been at or around the level it's at now for the last 40 odd years irrespective of how well we do or not. St and Killie have slightly bigger supports but not by a great deal. We can run various offers and schemes etc and crowds may increase temporarily but over the season they will average out to their current levels. Our potential fanbase is limited and that was the main concern i had and still have re the WS making fan ownership effective. So for me id rather have long term initiatives to improve the fan experience for our core support instead of short term projects that ultimately show no long term benefit, we are what we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 I think reducing the prices for away fans would go a long way to improving attendances and increasing revenues. We should look at capped prices for season ticket holders as long as its reciprocated for our fans. I think we did that once before. No idea if it was successful or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 44 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: I think reducing the prices for away fans would go a long way to improving attendances and increasing revenues. We should look at capped prices for season ticket holders as long as its reciprocated for our fans. I think we did that once before. No idea if it was successful or not. £5 or £10 off a ticket price would not have persuaded any more RC fans to travel down from Dingwall yesterday, most away supports are terrible it only the uglies, Hearts and Hibs that get anywhere near filling the south stand. Also is it not against league rules to charge fans different price for similar areas of the ground ,plus offering a Say £5 discount to the 200 odd RC fans who turned up on Saturday would cost the club £1K, repeat the same with the uglies and it's 4,000 fans at £5. So it's not good fiscal policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 2 hours ago, Stuwell2 said: I think that last season we would have lost yesterday’s game The Liam Kelly effect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 4 Report Share Posted August 4 59 minutes ago, Spiderpig said: £5 or £10 off a ticket price would not have persuaded any more RC fans to travel down from Dingwall yesterday, most away supports are terrible it only the uglies, Hearts and Hibs that get anywhere near filling the south stand. Also is it not against league rules to charge fans different price for similar areas of the ground ,plus offering a Say £5 discount to the 200 odd RC fans who turned up on Saturday would cost the club £1K, repeat the same with the uglies and it's 4,000 fans at £5. So it's not good fiscal policy. Old Firm fans don't go in that area. If they are getting corralled in the area where the seats don't even have backs then they should be the cheapest seats in the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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