0Neils40yarder Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 19 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Why would the club sell more tickets to a section than it can hold safely? As I said previously - someone else said that the thought a door had been kicked in - but there's nothing to evidence that. So why would Motherwell fc sell 500 more tickets than the stand can hold? It's not going to make that much in extra income. Surely if you buy a ticket online once the stand is sold out that's it. There isn't any evidence that we let 500 people in who shouldn't have been there - it's all conjecture BTW you are completely right that there shouldn't be people over crowding the stairwells - but that's a stewarding issue and if they are being prevented from doing their jobs something is wrong - and if the suggestion is that the fans were just left there incase they kicked off - that's also completely unacceptable. We didn't sell more tickets...Celtic fans found novel ways to enter the ground without having a ticket bought from Motherwell Football Club. I seen you state that people don't double-up to get into the ground - I can assure you they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 18 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: I dont think for a minute that Brian Caldwell is lying. He is making a response with the data available. Its good to hear that preventative measures were in place, as it protects the club, but the stand was clearly overcrowded. There were no huge empty spaces in the top tier. In fact there were fans standing on the stairwells up there too. Given that you couldnt actually see any of the stairwells on the bottom tier, there would have to have been huge gaps in the top tier for migration to be the only problem. Something clearly doesnt add up. I think the matter requires further examination. If this is true, it means he's being misled by those working for him. It implies that the staff at the club have such little regard for the CEO that they fail to provide him with accurate information, resulting in him responding to questions with incorrect details. 18 hours ago, wellgirl said: Im very much of the view that we should cut their allocation Are we really going to forfeit that crucial cash boost from ticket sales? We can’t be shouting about our need for investment on the one hand and then turning away six-figure sums from ticket revenue on the other. The reality is, we’re not in a position to reduce their allocation any further, no matter how much we might prefer to. 11 hours ago, Spiderpig said: I'm giving the club the benefit of the doubt and assuming they are not selling 5,500 tickets for a 5,000 capacity stand so yes I do. The green uglies have previous for it, so I suspect another emergency exit or two has been forced open, and nothing done to prevent it. As I mentioned earlier, if what you say is accurate, then Brian Caldwell is being deceived by those around him. It must be one or the other: he’s either lying or being lied to. In either scenario, it represents a significant issue that extends far beyond Celtic supporters gaining entry without tickets. Personally, I’m not inclined to make such a judgement based solely on what I could observe from the O'Donnell stand during the game. In situations like this, you either trust the individual responsible for managing the club or assume that there are various questionable activities occurring behind the scenes at Fir Park. I don’t believe that to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 1 hour ago, wellgirl said: Im not disagreeing with you here but speaking as someone who stewarded for a few years including at Fir Park crowd control is very much part of a stewards role. They absolutely can enforce crowd control measures and if they are being prevented from doing so that's a huge concern I recall a few years ago when Celtic were our guests. The Celtic fans housed in the South end POD Stand stood up en masse for the entire game. As a result we couldn't see that corner of the pitch. We asked a steward to politely request them to sit down as standing wasn't permitted. The steward consulted his boss, who in turn asked the Police for their take. We were told the Police instructed the head steward to take no action. We were advised to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well_said Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 14 minutes ago, David said: If this is true, it means he's being misled by those working for him. It implies that the staff at the club have such little regard for the CEO that they fail to provide him with accurate information, resulting in him responding to questions with incorrect details. Are we really going to forfeit that crucial cash boost from ticket sales? We can’t be shouting about our need for investment on the one hand and then turning away six-figure sums from ticket revenue on the other. The reality is, we’re not in a position to reduce their allocation any further, no matter how much we might prefer to. As I mentioned earlier, if what you say is accurate, then Brian Caldwell is being deceived by those around him. It must be one or the other: he’s either lying or being lied to. In either scenario, it represents a significant issue that extends far beyond Celtic supporters gaining entry without tickets. Personally, I’m not inclined to make such a judgement based solely on what I could observe from the O'Donnell stand during the game. In situations like this, you either trust the individual responsible for managing the club or assume that there are various questionable activities occurring behind the scenes at Fir Park. I don’t believe that to be the case. Bob the bungler strikes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 22 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: We didn't sell more tickets...Celtic fans found novel ways to enter the ground without having a ticket bought from Motherwell Football Club. I seen you state that people don't double-up to get into the ground - I can assure you they do. All I stated was in all my times of being a steward I only ever had one occasion where two people went through the turnstiles at one time. Someone else said doubling up was kicking the doors in to get access which is different from what I was talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 1 hour ago, wellgirl said: Doubling up, is very much 2 people going through a turnstile with 1 ticket. Kicking fire doors open is kicking fire doors open 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 1 hour ago, David said: If this is true, it means he's being misled by those working for him. It implies that the staff at the club have such little regard for the CEO that they fail to provide him with accurate information, resulting in him responding to questions with incorrect details. Are we really going to forfeit that crucial cash boost from ticket sales? We can’t be shouting about our need for investment on the one hand and then turning away six-figure sums from ticket revenue on the other. The reality is, we’re not in a position to reduce their allocation any further, no matter how much we might prefer to. As I mentioned earlier, if what you say is accurate, then Brian Caldwell is being deceived by those around him. It must be one or the other: he’s either lying or being lied to. In either scenario, it represents a significant issue that extends far beyond Celtic supporters gaining entry without tickets. Personally, I’m not inclined to make such a judgement based solely on what I could observe from the O'Donnell stand during the game. In situations like this, you either trust the individual responsible for managing the club or assume that there are various questionable activities occurring behind the scenes at Fir Park. I don’t believe that to be the case. Im not implying anything. The CEO could have been provided accurate information from those in charge of the turnstyles and has communicated it in the belief it is correct. It is also possible that Celtic fans have found a way to enter the ground whilst circumnavigating that information. There doesnt have to be a conspiracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 3 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said: Doubling up, is very much 2 people going through a turnstile with 1 ticket. Kicking fire doors open is kicking fire doors open Some people on here have suggested doubling up is kicking fire doors open when I thought it was two people going through the turnstiles at once And in all the years I was a steward at Fir Park I never saw anyone doubling up at the turnstiles The only time I saw it was at a Hamilton Celtic game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Blues Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 7 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Some people on here have suggested doubling up is kicking fire doors open Nobody on here has said anything which could be remotely construed as this. You might have read it somewhere else, but not on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 14 minutes ago, Electric Blues said: Nobody on here has said anything which could be remotely construed as this. You might have read it somewhere else, but not on here. That's odd. Because there's a post from Spiderpig on here a few posts back who suggested that doubling up was kicking the fire doors in. I asked them for clarification when they made their post. Really don't appreciate you suggesting that I'm lying - as I've said before I stewarded for years which is why I asked for the clarification. Ps. No fucks given. I'd rather get on with enjoying tonights win. Have a nice night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Blues Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 4 minutes ago, wellgirl said: That's odd. Because there's a post from Spiderpig on here a few posts back who suggested that doubling up was kicking the fire doors in. I asked them for clarification when they made their post. Really don't appreciate you suggesting that I'm lying I didn't suggest you were lying, merely that you might be mistaken in your understanding of what had been said. If you re-read that post by Spiderpig he says that they came in through the fire doors, but at no point did he - or anyone else - say that this was referred to as "doubling up". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 You're on block. You've made more than one snide dig at me on here - the first one was completely out of the blue, you popped up out of nowhere a few months ago on here to have a pop at me for no reason - I was apparently on here too much to do well in my degree yes? And you did that deliberately to be snide at a time when I really didn't need it My life has been hugely challenging over the past few years. I went back to uni because of some really horrible life events that I wouldn't wish on anyone and all I've had on here is a bunch of men I don't know lining up to take pot shots at me when I least needed it - and you made a snide dig on here out of the blue for no reason when we had never interacted, ever - you could have and should have said nothing. My degree and how much time I spend on here has zero to do with you. Nothing. Nil. Zero I had no idea who you were but the first interaction we had on here was you making a snide dig - saying if you study as hard as you post on here you'll do well - completely out of the blue and totally unnecessary. I really hope you take one big stare into your own void and see how someone might see a comment like that - because it was nasty. With horrible undertones -there was no need to post it. You didn't need to say that - you just did it to belittle me - and you did. I'm not going to waste my time on people who go in on me for nothing - particularly when you got it wrong. Hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Blues Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 10 minutes ago, wellgirl said: You're on block. You've made more than one snide dig at me on here - the first one was completely out of the blue, you popped up out of nowhere a few months ago on here to have a pop at me for no reason - I'm not going to waste my time on people who go in on me for nothing - particularly when you got it wrong. Hth Oh, very mature. Shame you blocked me before pointing out where I'm supposed to have had a pop at you, and/or a "snide dig", because I don't recall any such occasions. I'm beginning to suspect you have a comprehension problem, or a very thin skin, or both - and if you want to take this as a dig then you might just this once be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambo97 Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 If Police Scotland have prevented the stewards from clearing the stairs, the club needs to get this on record. It will be MFC not the police that will be liable if anything happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Blues Posted October 30 Report Share Posted October 30 33 minutes ago, wellgirl said: Ps. No fucks given. I'd rather get on with enjoying tonights win. Have a nice night I see you've gone back and edited your post after I've responded, to add a swear word and a dig of your own. Doubly mature. On 10/29/2024 at 10:43 PM, wellgirl said: That has absolutely fuck all to do with the matter you emailed him about. The square root of fuck all. And not that I never cuss on here, but apparently the late night swearing is a regular thing with you. Do you argue with everybody, or is just a select few? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted October 31 Report Share Posted October 31 28 minutes ago, cambo97 said: If Police Scotland have prevented the stewards from clearing the stairs, the club needs to get this on record. It will be MFC not the police that will be liable if anything happens This has been raised before, understandably, and the reason usually given for not rocking the boat is that the club doesn't want to upset the match commander(s), as they can make life difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted October 31 Report Share Posted October 31 5 hours ago, David said: If this is true, it means he's being misled by those working for him. It implies that the staff at the club have such little regard for the CEO that they fail to provide him with accurate information, resulting in him responding to questions with incorrect details. Are we really going to forfeit that crucial cash boost from ticket sales? We can’t be shouting about our need for investment on the one hand and then turning away six-figure sums from ticket revenue on the other. The reality is, we’re not in a position to reduce their allocation any further, no matter how much we might prefer to. As I mentioned earlier, if what you say is accurate, then Brian Caldwell is being deceived by those around him. It must be one or the other: he’s either lying or being lied to. In either scenario, it represents a significant issue that extends far beyond Celtic supporters gaining entry without tickets. Personally, I’m not inclined to make such a judgement based solely on what I could observe from the O'Donnell stand during the game. In situations like this, you either trust the individual responsible for managing the club or assume that there are various questionable activities occurring behind the scenes at Fir Park. I don’t believe that to be the case. Im not the only person on here who has suggested we cut the allocation - taking that aside. They come into our ground and smash the seats up. Kick open fire doors. And as far as I'm concerned - this has zero to do with "investment" because lots of people have said we don't need it and we are doing ok as we are It's about the way their fans treat our stadium. We don't need to ban them outright - just to the point that the south stand isn't overcrowded but - if they come into our ground and continue to rip seats up and smash them - yeah I would ban them - we can do without trash like that or their money - sack them off. If they can't behave get them in the bin Particularly as more than one poster online has said we are doing very well financially without the need for outside investment - at some point we need to make some sort of stand and not roll over to fans who smash up the south stand for laughs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Blues Posted October 31 Report Share Posted October 31 1 hour ago, wellgirl said: you popped up out of nowhere a few months ago on here to have a pop at me for no reason - I was apparently on here too much to do well in my degree yes? you made a snide dig on here out of the blue for no reason when we had never interacted, ever - you could have and should have said nothing. I had no idea who you were but the first interaction we had on here was you making a snide dig - saying if you study as hard as you post on here you'll do well - completely out of the blue and totally unnecessary You didn't need to say that - you just did it to belittle me - and you did. More edits after I’ve responded and supposedly been blocked? As a matter of fact we HAD previously interacted on P&B, back in May. You told me your name and a lot more besides, and I told you who I posted as on SOL. The comment you refer to on here was made shortly afterwards as a joke, with a smiley face and all, and you responded with a joke. No idea why you’ve waited almost six months to take the hump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Blues Posted October 31 Report Share Posted October 31 Apologies to everyone else who’s being subjected to this tedious argument. I’ll stop now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambo97 Posted October 31 Report Share Posted October 31 2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said: This has been raised before, understandably, and the reason usually given for not rocking the boat is that the club doesn't want to upset the match commander(s), as they can make life difficult. Not as difficult as a corporate manslaughter charge and damages. I'm being a bit extreme but if the stairs were as crowded as mentioned it wouldn't take much, a last minute winner or controversial goal against and injuries would be likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted October 31 Report Share Posted October 31 6 hours ago, Electric Blues said: Apologies to everyone else who’s being subjected to this tedious argument. I’ll stop now. Maybe don't start them either all jokes aside. Doubling up, as told to me by a ticketless celtic fan is more of a 'everyone push behind me and when the turnstyle is released we all pile through', more brute force than covert with the ticketed fan pleading they are being crushed, they did this at celtic park for years too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelmaninOZ Posted November 15 Author Report Share Posted November 15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted November 15 Report Share Posted November 15 Interesting. BC confirms that the Police took the decision to take no action against crowds in the South Stand. As we thought it s a case if there's enough of you feel free to do whatever you want. On another note, the club has no idea what its share of the semi final gate will be (almost a fortnight after the game), let alone actually received the cash. That will be pooled but we also get a share of the programme and catering revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderpig Posted November 15 Report Share Posted November 15 1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said: Interesting. BC confirms that the Police took the decision to take no action against crowds in the South Stand. ASs we thought it s a case if there's enough of you feel free to do whatever you want. On another note, the club has no idea what its share of the semi final gate will be (almost a fortnight after the game), let alone actually received the cash. That will be pooled but we also get a share of the programme and catering revenue. I still think that explanation is very suspect Dave, there did not look to be enough spare seats in the top tier to explain the " migration theory" to the lower stand, two of the top tier stairways were also rammed. As for taking no action as alleged per police advice, the club are effectively sanctioning unsafe conditions, would the police take responsibility if a serious incident had occurred? I think not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 15 Report Share Posted November 15 I don't think we have any say in how the police manage the fans or the crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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