To Move or Not to Move?

[Kmcalpin]

I've just been reading Stephen Cameron's thoughts on a potential move away from Fir Park, on Pie and Bovril. Its not a simple decision and he has produced an excellent presentation on the pros and the cons. It must have taken him a considerable amount of time and effort.  Well done Stephen. if anyone hasn't seen it, then I would recommend that they do so. 

Doing nothing, Asquith style, is not an option and the club cannot afford to kick the can down the road. There are no easy answers, but decisions will have to be taken and soon.    

 

[Mintymac]

1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

I've just been reading Stephen Cameron's thoughts on a potential move away from Fir Park, on Pie and Bovril. Its not a simple decision and he has produced an excellent presentation on the pros and the cons. It must have taken him a considerable amount of time and effort.  Well done Stephen. if anyone hasn't seen it, then I would recommend that they do so. 

Doing nothing, Asquith style, is not an option and the club cannot afford to kick the can down the road. There are no easy answers, but decisions will have to be taken and soon.    

 

Not happening . 
I asked CEO this very direct question at the meet the manager /ceo night . The response from CEO was

1. No medium or long term plans to move

2. Cost prohibitive and sale of ground would be fraction of what we need ,unlike St Mirren who got good money for prime site commercial land .

Was fairly short response but certainly he put any idea of moving to bed 

[Throughthelaces]

Not to move. We have a really interesting ground I like for park it’s definitely got some character to it. I’d rather be at fir park than anything resembling airdrie or st mittens ground which is what we’d end up with if we did move

[StirlingDosser]

Putting an economics and business hat on a move is a no brainer.

That said I'd rather a medium term programme of replacing the POD stand and Hunter stand with something similar to the Cooper, which would make Fir Park a very tight, enclosed and tidy wee ground. In relation to the Phil Odonnell stand, that is probably something both achievable and pretty necessary in the short term. The Hunter stand less important but still a well designed structure would give the club more space to play with for covered player/corporate facilities. 

 

Here is a mock up I done a few years back...

 

 

[well_said]

1 hour ago, StirlingDosser said:

Putting an economics and business hat on a move is a no brainer.

That said I'd rather a medium term programme of replacing the POD stand and Hunter stand with something similar to the Cooper, which would make Fir Park a very tight, enclosed and tidy wee ground. In relation to the Phil Odonnell stand, that is probably something both achievable and pretty necessary in the short term. The Hunter stand less important but still a well designed structure would give the club more space to play with for covered player/corporate facilities. 

 

Here is a mock up I done a few years back...

 

 

That looks superb, but even better to cut the south stand to one level to make the heights the same . It also cuts the number of old firm fans in the ground . Win win I think. To recover the shortfall charge them what they charge their own fans for champions League matches.

[wellfan]

1 hour ago, StirlingDosser said:

Putting an economics and business hat on a move is a no brainer.

That said I'd rather a medium term programme of replacing the POD stand and Hunter stand with something similar to the Cooper, which would make Fir Park a very tight, enclosed and tidy wee ground. In relation to the Phil Odonnell stand, that is probably something both achievable and pretty necessary in the short term. The Hunter stand less important but still a well designed structure would give the club more space to play with for covered player/corporate facilities. 

 

Here is a mock up I done a few years back...

 

 

Replacing the east and main stands would be my preference and this is an excellent mock-up. My only point would be that we don't own the land to the south of the main stand, so any replacement would have to be another part-width stand. See the planning boundary here: https://eplanning.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=map&keyVal=9901102FUL

[StAndrew7]

6 minutes ago, wellfan said:

Replacing the east and main stands would be my preference and this is an excellent mock-up. My only point would be that we don't own the land to the south of the main stand, so any replacement would have to be another part-width stand. See the planning boundary here: https://eplanning.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=map&keyVal=9901102FUL

Aye, I was about to make this point.

Also, as Stephen's document points out (as do others above), this kind of project would wreak havoc on the local community and the Club:

• Knowetop would more than likely lose its car park due to both the demolition and construction work,
• The astro would more than likely end up as the contractor's compound, removing its use for years,
• Traffic etc. towards Our Lady's would increase, as would noise for the neighbours on that side,
• Access to Fir Park Street and the School would be restricted, as would residents' access and parking

I could go on, but aye, it's not a small undertaking. Definitely needs serious thought and appreciation of what it means (along with significant engagement with the local community and residents) prior to anything going ahead. Now, you need to include consultation events as part of significant works like this but they're normally limited to one or two evenings. I think if it does go down this route, the Club will need to go above and beyond that for hearts and minds purposes etc.

[StirlingDosser]

1 hour ago, well_said said:

That looks superb, but even better to cut the south stand to one level to make the heights the same . It also cuts the number of old firm fans in the ground . Win win I think. To recover the shortfall charge them what they charge their own fans for champions League matches.

Thanks, I can only take credit for the hunter and odonnell stands in the mockup. I have made a few others over the years. I think if the footprint was correct it could potentially fit. As it is anyway I am sure MFC own the houses which are in the way of a full length stand.

[StAndrew7]

1 minute ago, StirlingDosser said:

As it is anyway I am sure MFC own the houses which are in the way of a full length stand.

I think it was spoken about at one point (or maybe even they did), but I don't think they do. It was sold in April 2021 for £215,000 and prior to that in 2002.

[wellfan]

30 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

Aye, I was about to make this point.

Also, as Stephen's document points out (as do others above), this kind of project would wreak havoc on the local community and the Club:

• Knowetop would more than likely lose its car park due to both the demolition and construction work,
• The astro would more than likely end up as the contractor's compound, removing its use for years,
• Traffic etc. towards Our Lady's would increase, as would noise for the neighbours on that side,
• Access to Fir Park Street and the School would be restricted, as would residents' access and parking

I could go on, but aye, it's not a small undertaking. Definitely needs serious thought and appreciation of what it means (along with significant engagement with the local community and residents) prior to anything going ahead. Now, you need to include consultation events as part of significant works like this but they're normally limited to one or two evenings. I think if it does go down this route, the Club will need to go above and beyond that for hearts and minds purposes etc.

You're right about the potential havoc - although most significant developments piss people and organisations off - but these issues aren't insurmountable if the proposal is properly consulted on and the right application for planning permission submitted. In simple planning terms, any application of this type would be one that is considered in the context of local physical and visual impacts vs economic and community benefits. The benefits of the latter would have to materially outweigh the disbenefits of the former. I'm a planner. If the Club or WS want any guidance on this, they can have my time in return for a couple of free match day pints and pies. 

I've also just read Stephen's document on P&B. Hats off to him for taking the time to put it together. 

[StAndrew7]

2 minutes ago, wellfan said:

You're right about the potential havoc - although most significant developments piss people and organisations off - but these issues aren't insurmountable if the proposal is properly consulted on and the right application for planning permission submitted. In simple planning terms, any application of this type would be one that is considered in the context of local physical and visual impacts vs economic and community benefits. The benefits of the latter would have to materially outweigh the disbenefits of the former. I'm a planner. If the Club or WS want any guidance on this, they can have my time in return for a couple of free match day pints and pies. 

I've also just read Stephen's document on P&B. Hats off to him for taking the time to put it together. 

Aye, I work in construction consulting/design so totally appreciate all the nuances, too. Very much in the heavier side of industry, rather than fitba stadiums though.

[wellfan]

2 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

Aye, I work in construction consulting/design so totally appreciate all the nuances, too. Very much in the heavier side of industry, rather than fitba stadiums though.

Heavy industry 🤝 Fitba stadiums

I can see you drawing up your concept designs for the following:

The Ravenscraig Excelsior

Bamrack Park

The JDs (Steelworks) Stadium

Bob Park Park

The Riku Danzakibowl

Lunchtime is over. I should get back to work. 

[weeyin]

Given the outcry over the 5G mast, I confidently predict I won't see a St John Stadium, Pettigrew Park or Philliben Field in my lifetime.

[joewarkfanclub]

3 hours ago, wellfan said:

Replacing the east and main stands would be my preference and this is an excellent mock-up. My only point would be that we don't own the land to the south of the main stand, so any replacement would have to be another part-width stand. See the planning boundary here: https://eplanning.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=map&keyVal=9901102FUL

Aye, thats always gonna be a problem.

However, with advances in engineering, surely we can build something along the lines of what Hibs have done at Easter Road with their stands behind the goals.

It would look better aesthetically and remove some of the issues with "sightlines" that currently exist?

[grizzlyg]

Yep this is a tricky one and one I have had good debate over recent years.  I feel moving to ravenscraig has no infrastructure or transport links plus a feckin long walk for my post match pint 🤪🤪

For me if we could redevelop the hunter and POD stand it would be perfect but I ain't an architect,  financial administrator and comedy are my strong points.......well one of them at least.....i know hee haw about finance....🤪🤪🤪🤪

[wellgirl]

4 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Yep this is a tricky one and one I have had good debate over recent years.  I feel moving to ravenscraig has no infrastructure or transport links plus a feckin long walk for my post match pint 🤪🤪

For me if we could redevelop the hunter and POD stand it would be perfect but I ain't an architect,  financial administrator and comedy are my strong points.......well one of them at least.....i know hee haw about finance....🤪🤪🤪🤪

It has crap transport links. I don't drive and when I was a member of nl leisure that was a sports centre I used very occasionally. There's a bus that goes to it I believe but only at night 

[Yoshi-1991]

23 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

It has crap transport links. I don't drive and when I was a member of nl leisure that was a sports centre I used very occasionally. There's a bus that goes to it I believe but only at night 

I have always imagined that a move to Ravenscraig would encourage local bus companies to run a shuttle service from the town centre/ train stations on match days.  

[wellgirl]

Just now, Yoshi-1991 said:

I have always imagined that a move to Ravenscraig would encourage local bus companies to run a shuttle service from the town centre/ train stations on match days.  

You would hope so. 

[Kmcalpin]

As housing and other land uses are opened up and developed in Ravenscraig, public transport services will follow.

[wellgirl]

29 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

As housing and other land uses are opened up and developed in Ravenscraig, public transport services will follow.

Do you think so? There's housing there just now but a really poor bus service. There used to be a free bus from shotts healthy living centre but not enough people using it to keep it viable 

[Kmcalpin]

Yes  I do. I've seen it many times before in large scale new developments and new towns. 

[wellgirl]

6 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes  I do. I've seen it many times before in large scale new developments and new towns. 

But at the moment Ravenscraig isn't being developed. Not the way it was supposed to be in the beginning. Id rather stay where we are tbh

[Kmcalpin]

2 minutes ago, wellgirl said:

But at the moment Ravenscraig isn't being developed. Not the way it was supposed to be in the beginning. Id rather stay where we are tbh

More housing and less retail I believe. Situation is fluid though and depends on market conditions. 

[wellgirl]

2 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

More housing and less retail I believe. Situation is fluid though and depends on market conditions. 

There's not much in it just now though is there. Like when you walk from new college lanarkshire to the sports centre there's very little there. There must be reasons for that but I honestly would hate to think we would move there. I think we need to be town centre 

[0Neils40yarder]

The thought of moving to Ravenscraig gives me the heeby jeebies