The VAR monthly review 2024

[SteelmaninOZ]

Helps RIFC again?

 

[Kmcalpin]

This video covers many issues, but I'll restrict my comments solely to Lennon Miller's goal. On watching the highlights, I quickly came to the conclusion that it was impossible to tell whose arm the ball hit first. It seemed to me that the ball was sandwiched between between the defenders's arm and that of Lennon MIller. That seems to be the review's conclusion.

I'll probably be banned by the BBC now for making inappropriate comments - not hard these days though!

[joewarkfanclub]

39 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

This video covers many issues, but I'll restrict my comments solely to Lennon Miller's goal. On watching the highlights, I quickly came to the conclusion that it was impossible to tell whose arm the ball hit first. It seemed to me that the ball was sandwiched between between the defenders's arm and that of Lennon MIller. That seems to be the review's conclusion.

I'll probably be banned by the BBC now for making inappropriate comments - not hard these days though!

Certainly from my vantage point in the East stand, I was convinced in real time it struck their players hand first as I was shouting for a penalty before Lennon tucked it away and I immediately shut up!

I agree, its by no way a clear and obvious error......

[joewarkfanclub]

Just watched the whole VAR review.

Not sure I agree with all the positions they have taken, but it is quite refreshing and informative.

Certainly listening to the lines of communication between the officials and VAR Room lends confidence that they are all a lot more switched on than they appear during a game.

Still not sure about the 2 penalties though.

Casey 100% handball and 100% penalty but their reason for the red card still doesnt sit right with me. 

Particularly when you listening to their resoning for it and compare to Souttars.

The only difference is the position of the keeper.

Anyhoo. At least we are getting explanations now and can understand the logic, even if we dont always agree.

 

[FirParkCornerExile]

22 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Just watched the whole VAR review.

Not sure I agree with all the positions they have taken, but it is quite refreshing and informative.

Certainly listening to the lines of communication between the officials and VAR Room lends confidence that they are all a lot more switched on than they appear during a game.

Still not sure about the 2 penalties though.

Casey 100% handball and 100% penalty but their reason for the red card still doesnt sit right with me. 

Particularly when you listening to their resoning for it and compare to Souttars.

The only difference is the position of the keeper.

Anyhoo. At least we are getting explanations now and can understand the logic, even if we dont always agree.

 

I think these broadcasts are excellent and give a good insight into how decisions arrived at. It will never be perfect but at least they are trying to explain it , errors and all. I'm still amazed the St Mirren player didn't get sent off for booting the Kilmarnock defender twice. That was a real shocker but at least they held their hands up they got it wrong but doesnt help Kilmarnock.

[Spiderpig]

7 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

 

 

Casey 100% handball and 100% penalty but their reason for the red card still doesnt sit right with me. 

Particularly when you listening to their resoning for it and compare to Souttars.

The only difference is the position of the keeper.

 

 

Casey handling the ball stopped a certain goal, hence the red card,  souttar handling the ball def pen but given the position of the keeper he would in all probability have saved it if souttar had not handled it.

For me the refs and VAR got these two decisions 100% correct.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Casey handling the ball stopped a certain goal, hence the red card,  souttar handling the ball def pen but given the position of the keeper he would in all probability have saved it if souttar had not handled it.

For me the refs and VAR got these two decisions 100% correct.

Stopping the goal in itself only determined whether the punishment was yellow or red.

The reasons they gave for implementing the punishment was whether it was deliberate or not.

They talked about "natural positions" and "movement" etc.

They determined that Caseys WAS deliberate and Souttars wasnt. Despite both motions being very similar.

Not saying one is right and one is wrong. But if Caseys is a red then Souttars is a yellow.

If Souttars isnt punishable (because it isnt deliberate) then neither should Caseys.

The discussion in the video is informative. I just disnt find the decisions consistent in those cases.

[Kmcalpin]

As I understand it, the panel must have concluded that, in Soutar's case, had he not handled the ball, there was very little chance that the attacker would have managed to get a shot on target. In other words there was no goalscoring opportunity. Soutar's handling of the ball was irrelevant to any potential outcome.

[joewarkfanclub]

9 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

As I understand it, the panel must have concluded that, in Soutar's case, had he not handled the ball, there was very little chance that the attacker would have managed to get a shot on target. In other words there was no goalscoring opportunity. Soutar's handling of the ball was irrelevant to any potential outcome.

Im not debating that Souttar should have got a red card.

They are clear in the video that the cases are different because of the position of the goalkeeper.

Casey denies a clear goalscoring opportunity. Souttar does not (according ro the panel).

But they then go on to debate punishment and whether the appropriate one was applied.

Punishment for Souttars act being deliberate is yellow.

Punishment for Caseys act being deliberate is red.

Where I have the problem is that they deem Caseys action deliberate and Souttars not.

For me, the actions are very similar. Both should have the appropriate colour of card or neither should.

So while I welcome the transparency and the discussion surrounding decisions, I still think consistency is an issue.

The videos ARE a huge improvement on where we were before though, so well done to Collum for that.

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

 

Punishment for Souttars act being deliberate is yellow.

Punishment for Caseys act being deliberate is red.

Where I have the problem is that they deem Caseys action deliberate and Souttars not.

 

I don't think the term "deliberate " is relevant theses days, VAR sees an incident as a handball and then decides does it merit a sanction, ie penalty or free kick etc. Most handballs penalised will result in a yellow card or yellow card plus penalty and a few like Caseys incident that denied a certain goal will be a red card and penalty. It's all fairly straightforward in the two examples mentioned, Refs and VAR got it right for a change.

[joewarkfanclub]

2 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

I don't think the term "deliberate " is relevant theses days, VAR sees an incident as a handball and then decides does it merit a sanction, ie penalty or free kick etc. Most handballs penalised will result in a yellow card or yellow card plus penalty and a few like Caseys incident that denied a certain goal will be a red card and penalty. It's all fairly straightforward in the two examples mentioned, Refs and VAR got it right for a change.

I appreciate what you are saying, but my basis for the debate isnt my own personal opinion its the content of the VAR Review video.

They talk about "deliberate" several times whilst explaining their decision and even say that Souttar moves his arm upwards in the direction of the ball.

I totally accept that normally Souttars will be a yellow card and Caseys will be a red due to the circumstances. 

I think Collum muddys the water somewhat by trying to explain away why Souttar wasnt carded at all.

If he is deemed to have moved his arm to the ball as they indicate, its hard to fathom why that isnt considered deliberate.

And if deliberate IS a thing as the review seems to indicate it is, then I think Casey is harshly dealt with as the arm he moves upwards goes across his chest. The one that stops the ball going in the net is already out by his side as he throws himself into the block.

Anyway, I dont think there needs to be any more time wasted on this. We have a game tomorrow!

[weeyin]

For all the issues I have with VAR and despite the fact the I want it punted, and despite the problems I have with the ridiculous handball rules, I still think the Casey call was correct.

[grizzlyg]

Probably controversial but I think Collum is doing a decent job in his new role, cue a dodgy decision tomorrow against us 🤪🤪

[SteelmaninOZ]

 

[cambo97]

That's the first time I've watched any of them, Collum comes over pretty well, the only one of the conclusions I would argue with was the Celtic should have had a penalty; the argument was the attacker was ahead of the defender, I don't believe he was, the arm was minor. As an attacker (a long time ago) I would have been pissed I never got to the ball and scored, it would have been easier than falling over.

[well_said]

1 hour ago, cambo97 said:

That's the first time I've watched any of them, Collum comes over pretty well, the only one of the conclusions I would argue with was the Celtic should have had a penalty; the argument was the attacker was ahead of the defender, I don't believe he was, the arm was minor. As an attacker (a long time ago) I would have been pissed I never got to the ball and scored, it would have been easier than falling over.

Celtic players have a very long history of falling easily in the box.