What's The Answer?

[CoF]

We had an 18 team League and it worked well until Jock Stein came along.

Celtic's 9 in a row was the catalyst for change, only weak leagues in poor countries are dominated by teams in the way Celtic dominated in those years. Change was mooted and we modelled the Premier League or Top Ten on the German Bundesliga,( The Germans swiftly changed back when they realised the cost of relegation to it's biggest clubs) Scotland though plodded blindly on regardless of the cost to our clubs, from being European semi-finalists only a few years earlier, Kilmarnock (Fairs Cup 1967) and Dunfermline (Cup Winners Cup 1969) suddenly found themselves down amongst the also rans.

From being big clubs with decent supports these clubs almost went under and a lot of their fans deserted them, kids weren't interested in going to see Killie or the Pars against Montrose and Brechin, not when their dads had been used to Rangers and Celtic and Hearts and Hibs. A lot of those kids began to look at one or other of the Old Firm, and I dont think those clubs have a hope in hell of getting them back.

In the 19 years between the commencement of the league after the second world war and the first title of Celtic's 9 in a row, Hibs (3 times), Hearts (twice), Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, and Dundee had all won the Leagu title. That was a strong and healthy league, the fact that Celtic would dominate for the next 9 years did not weaken the League in any way shape or form. Indeed during Celtic's 9 in a row Rangers reached two European Finals, Dundee reached the semi-finals of the Fairs Cup, now Uefa Cup, Dunfermline a UEFA Cup Quarter Final in 1966 and a Cup Winners Cup semi-final in 1969, Hibs a Quarter Final in 1973, and Kilmarnock a semi-final in 1967. Within 5 years of the onset of The Premier League in 1975 all of those clubs, Rangers apart unfortunately, had suffered relegation from the Top division.

The Premier League didn't make the football any better, it bloody decimated our clubs. Can we go back to an 18 team League, my heart says yes, but my head says no. We dont have big enough clubs to fill it. We've murdered them.

 

 

 

That was a very interesting post. Interesting insight into Scottish fitba before my time, something that, to be honest, I'm quite ignorant of.

[Orinoco]

Remove the old firm from the league. Im sure most media would be extremely interested in a league where any of the teams in the big league could win it from one year to the next. Certainly would remove the "whats the point" feeling every year.

 

Better training facilities throughout the country, and play the game in the summer months. Playing on a winter night in freezing conditions on appalling pitches is never going to attract new fans to the game.

 

League sponsorship monies should be equally split amongst all teams, and this money has to be used to reduce ticket prices.

 

All kick times irrespective if a particular game is live on the tv or not should be played at the same time.

[TheLip69]

We had an 18 team League and it worked well until Jock Stein came along.

Celtic's 9 in a row was the catalyst for change, only weak leagues in poor countries are dominated by teams in the way Celtic dominated in those years. says no. We dont have big enough clubs to fill it. We've murdered them.

 

 

In case anyone got the wrong idea, the underlined was not my opinion, but was the general consensus at the time.

Of course when Liverpool were kings of England and Europe in the 80's and 90's no-one sought to reduce the Football League with clubs like Tottenham, Man Utd, Arsenal, Everton and Ipswich winning European trophies at the time they realised how strong in depth their league was and left well alone. The pity was, we didn't.

[superjinpeace]

I think the answer is two leagues of 16 teams each.

 

Means demoting 8 teams from being league members.

 

Forming some kind of pyramid structure underneath the top 2 leagues. Either North/South non leagues. Or 1 league at top and 2 underneath that, whatever works out best.

 

There are clubs in Highland and Southern leagues that are far better supportered than some of the dross that are currently league clubs.

 

Maybe you could have a league cup that was made up with a group stage then knock out mimicing Europe style contests, giving experience of that kind of competition, with kockouts home and away style. As leagues will have 30 games in the season, leaving more time for a better league cup format.

 

To start. 2 top teams in each group with 2 qualifiers from all other leagues.

[du_du_dubordeaux]

interesting to hear some of the opinions on this subject.

 

I know all the talk is about 16, 18 team leagues but I was just wondering what people think of holland's set up where the teams ranked 2-5 (think that was/is the case) go into a play off for the other CL spot.

 

I dunno if this seems fair, but it would most definately create a bit of a twist at the end of the season. Obviously they would never do this for a CL place in scotland, but maybe with this new uefa cup spot we could have some kind of play off with the league cup winners/runners up (if the winners have already qualified) and 4th 5th and 6th placed in the league?

 

I still believe teams should be rewarded for league position but its always something to think about, maybe make getting to the top 6 more worthwhile. We've all seen how much attention the first second and third division play offs in england get, could it work up here on a smaller scale???

[Lobey_Dosser]

The quality of footballer in Scotland is absolute shite.

 

Better coaching for Scchool kids is the only answer eh?

 

In the short term however, if a chairman of a provincial club has the balls, then the Old firm are there for the taking next season. That would offer a much needed breath of fresh air and entice the crowds back.

[East_Stand_Al]

Remove the old firm from the league. Im sure most media would be extremely interested in a league where any of the teams in the big league could win it from one year to the next. Certainly would remove the "whats the point" feeling every year.

 

Better training facilities throughout the country, and play the game in the summer months. Playing on a winter night in freezing conditions on appalling pitches is never going to attract new fans to the game.

 

League sponsorship monies should be equally split amongst all teams, and this money has to be used to reduce ticket prices.

 

All kick times irrespective if a particular game is live on the tv or not should be played at the same time.

 

I don't think we will ever see the OF play elsewhere and unless some kind of restrictons in terms of transfer fees and salary to level the field is introduced then same shit different day.

 

That imbalance is the main issue I think, we have 10 clubs pushing for 1 european place from the league and a good cup run becomes vital.

 

Until we even up the score in terms of revenue then clubs such as ourselves have to either work wihin our limited means and accept the situation or end up in masses of debt still unable to compete, unless of course the so called fans if these clubs who support them based on what school they went to, wake up to themselves and come back to their local clubs then we need radical measures to increase the fan base, this is where the current initiatives of trying to attract the weans has to be applauded and backed to the hilt.

[PettyWulliegrew]

We had an 18 team League and it worked well until Jock Stein came along.

Celtic's 9 in a row was the catalyst for change, only weak leagues in poor countries are dominated by teams in the way Celtic dominated in those years. Change was mooted and we modelled the Premier League or Top Ten on the German Bundesliga,( The Germans swiftly changed back when they realised the cost of relegation to it's biggest clubs) Scotland though plodded blindly on regardless of the cost to our clubs, from being European semi-finalists only a few years earlier, Kilmarnock (Fairs Cup 1967) and Dunfermline (Cup Winners Cup 1969) suddenly found themselves down amongst the also rans.

From being big clubs with decent supports these clubs almost went under and a lot of their fans deserted them, kids weren't interested in going to see Killie or the Pars against Montrose and Brechin, not when their dads had been used to Rangers and Celtic and Hearts and Hibs. A lot of those kids began to look at one or other of the Old Firm, and I dont think those clubs have a hope in hell of getting them back.

In the 19 years between the commencement of the league after the second world war and the first title of Celtic's 9 in a row, Hibs (3 times), Hearts (twice), Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, and Dundee had all won the Leagu title. That was a strong and healthy league, the fact that Celtic would dominate for the next 9 years did not weaken the League in any way shape or form. Indeed during Celtic's 9 in a row Rangers reached two European Finals, Dundee reached the semi-finals of the Fairs Cup, now Uefa Cup, Dunfermline a UEFA Cup Quarter Final in 1966 and a Cup Winners Cup semi-final in 1969, Hibs a Quarter Final in 1973, and Kilmarnock a semi-final in 1967. Within 5 years of the onset of The Premier League in 1975 all of those clubs, Rangers apart unfortunately, had suffered relegation from the Top division.

The Premier League didn't make the football any better, it bloody decimated our clubs. Can we go back to an 18 team League, my heart says yes, but my head says no. We dont have big enough clubs to fill it. We've murdered them.

 

Good post !

 

IMHO the following could make a difference

 

(1) Bring back some terracing

 

(2) Summer football (Worked for rugby league)

 

(3) 16 team SPL

 

(4) Pyramid system/SPL North+South to include Highland league + juniors

 

(5) Make the whole matchday package better value=cheaper entry/better catering/alcohol outside the viewing areas (as in in Engerland)

 

(6)One governing body

 

(7) A Well strip with a hoop (or at very least a band)

 

[weeyin]

One of the simplest ways to get fans back is to revert to having all games kick off at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon (Or, at a push, 7:45pm on a Wednesday evening).

[TvTotherwell]

One of the simplest ways to get fans back is to revert to having all games kick off at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon (Or, at a push, 7:45pm on a Wednesday evening).

 

I don't see what diffrence this would make ?

[weeyin]

When football was played at the same day/time every week it was much easier to plan to attend and, for many, get decent value from a season ticket.

 

These days, if you buy a season ticket, you have to know you can attend games that kick off on Mon/Wed/Thu/Sat lunchtime/Sundays. Lots of people have commitments during the wee that restrict that sort of flexibility.

[Haggischomper]

One of the simplest ways to get fans back is to revert to having all games kick off at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon (Or, at a push, 7:45pm on a Wednesday evening).

 

DEFINITELY.

 

And get TV to fuck, except for highlights.

[El Grew]

A lot of interesting views and ideas. The biggest problem facing Scottish football is that the product is poor in quality, lacking in real competition, and not giving fans value for money.

 

When you have to start messing around in ways to dress your product up then its your product that's wrong not how its presented.

 

However, by way of contributing to the debate....

 

1. Stop showing live Scottish football on TV - if people want to see football then they should attend games.

 

2. All games to be played on Saturdays with 3.00pm kick off. Midweek (Tuesday and Wednesday to be used solely for Cup replays.

 

3. Reduce gate prices to affordable levels - say £10.

 

4. Scrap the League/CIS Cup - attendance figures show fans are not interested in and its likely the clubs aren't either and anyway it no longer qualifies the winners for Europe.

 

5. Have a league of 16 teams playing each other twice, with a mid-winter break from December to January. This would give players time to rest and recover etc. and anyway crowds are usually at their lowest in these months anyway. Dump the rest - have you seen the attendance figures for these clubs. Sorry but they have not part in a professional set-up.

The original thinking behind a Premier League back in 1975 was to make it more competitive as it was felt that by playing the OF more often clubs would become less fearful of them. This did work for a short time when Aberdeen and Dundee Utd mounted good challenges. However the league is now heavily weighted in the OF's favour with every club having to play them 4 times, a total of 8 games. If each club only had to play them twice, a total of 4 games then it might level thing out some. Lets face it how many games do the OF lose in a season? Having to play them less might help make the league more competitive again.

 

6. Go back to clubs splitting their home gate with the away club - that way everyone would get a chance of revenue from playing the OF away from home.

 

7. Season Ticket holders should get a programme free upon entry.

 

8. Upon production of their Season Tickets at any kiosk in the ground, season ticket holders should be allowed one free pie and bovril/tea/coffee.

 

9. Clubs should set their wage structure for their players based upon the turnover/income which they generate.

 

10. Clubs should allow each other's Season Ticket holders reduced entry to away games upon production of their Season Tickets. A couple of seasons ago both Kilmarnock and Hearts allowed 'Well Season Ticket holders in at reduced rates.

 

Just a few ideas but as somebody already said - the fans are extremely unlikely to be consulted on their ideas and views.

[du_du_dubordeaux]

you make a few good points there el grew, however in order for to make these work you'd have to get the Old Firm to agree to them because the voting system for the SPL is corrupt and suited to their needs.

 

Point 1 is great, the only outside interest (if any) in scottish football will be the OF derby and maybe the edinburgh one (pushing it a bit) so why should motherwell have to play kilmarnock at half 12 on a saturday when next to no one will be watchin on TV.

 

Do this, however, and you lose TV money. This wouldnt affect the diddy 10 in the long run as we already have to look heavily on youth players, however, it would affect the old firm and make it near on impossible for them to compete in europe, which they wouldnt allow. You've got to remember it's them who govern scottish football and anyone who says otherwise is living in their own wee world.

 

What i'm getting at here is that, although I agree with most of your points, they aren't realistic in the sense that money continues to prevail, and chairmen of the "diddy 10" are still makin a wee earner out of TV cash even if it is only a handfull of what the old firm are getting.

 

In order for the "diddy 10" to ever balance the playing field they would have to stand up to the old firm and demand equal voting rights *see link*. They tried it.....and they shat out of it, as you are probably aware.

 

IMO the old firm are a long way away from joining their imaginary euro league so instead of waiting for them to make a move, why dont the diddy 10 make a start on balancing up the tables a bit. But they have showed just this year that they are incapable of doing so, as they cant even stand together on opposing the infamous "5%" quota.

 

Pathetic.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/footbal...eat-638694.html

[VWBug]

Read through this whole thread and there are plenty of viable and worthy suggestions, I would like to add that BBC Alba have a great product in that they show the whole game several hours after the game, which for me at least wouldn't stop me going to the game, as well as ensuring a good sized audience, who either were at the game and want to see incidents again, or couldn't make it and want to see it.

 

I would also suggest limiting 1st team squad sizes and having an under 19's only reserve squad as back up, but extending transfer windows (incase of large numbers of injuries). This would serve several purposes, make more experienced players available to other clubs, this increase in supply of quality players will reduce the cost of labour (players wages) as Teams will have a better choice of better players, making it a buyers market. It will also give under 19's more of a chance to come through as well as weeding out players who simply aren't good enough.

 

So by making better quality players more attainable, smaller clubs will be more competetive and make a 16 or 18 team league a realistic possibility. This stronger more competetive league will be more attractive to sponsorship, allowing cheaper entry to grounds and allow me to get that free pie El Grew was talking about.

[Tartan_Special]

Did you guys know we (UK) are the only place in the world that has to watch thier national team on pay per view! Disgusting!

[Jonesy]

Did you guys know we (Scotland) are the only place in the world that has to watch thier national team on pay per view! Disgusting!

 

 

Fixed.

 

As well as that, we must be the only country who gets to watch other countrys national teams for free on national TV.

[Haggischomper]

Did you guys know we (UK) are the only place in the world that has to watch thier national team on pay per view! Disgusting!

 

Make no mistake about it, the guys running fotball aren't running it for you, the ordinary punter, they are running it for themselves to see how much $$$ they can get out of it. And we're letting them.