Motherwell v Hibernian 30/11/2024

[Big Stall]

Missed today but not a shock seeing the line up.

Last 3 games - Rangers, County & Hibs we have been up against sides low on confidence & shipping goals. All three games we set up to keep it tight instead of actually having a go. Mental. Lessons learned - apparantly not!

Get 2 men up front, plus Mawahinse (spelling forgive me) on the wing. That will give us options and threats. Give Miller support. Get wilson back to LB!

[grizzlyg]

9 minutes ago, steelman1991 said:

I don’t see this “think there is a player in there with Stama” he’s shown nothing to suggest that there is. Now he may not be a target man, but he should at least have the basic skills and be able to hold a ball in and pass over 5-10 yards. So far he’s been able to do neither. Managing that would at least be a start towards “there being a player in there” 🤷‍♂️🤔

Fair do's pal.  I just think role being asked to play isn't reason we signed him.  He looks like penalty box striker.

Basically I think Kettlewell needs to dump 3 5 2 and go 4 4 2 or 4 3 3

[Lobey_Dosser]

We look to have completely lost our way. There are multiple reasons for this but the easiest one to resolve imo is the back 3. If SK is to persist with the back 3 in McGinn (& O’Donnell’s) absence then it needs to have someone that is comfortable pushing forward with the ball. Seddon was integral to our win over St Johnstone so I’m baffled why he hasn’t started in that role since when the likes of Balmer has been far from impressive, 

One issue a little more difficult to resolve is the front line. The manager doesn’t appear to have great belief in any of his summer signings and it’s looking increasingly likely that one or two will move on in January. Personally, I thought Stama started brightly enough today and would like to have seem him getting 15 mins alongside both Watt and Maswanhise. 

Finally, we need to be careful how we handle Lennon. He’s carrying too much on his shoulders at the moment as captain of a dysfunctional team and our sole creative force. 

[steelman1991]

32 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Fair do's pal.  I just think role being asked to play isn't reason we signed him.  He looks like penalty box striker.

Basically I think Kettlewell needs to dump 3 5 2 and go 4 4 2 or 4 3 3

All about opinions and I agree that the formation might not suit him. But he needs to master the basics first.

[SteelmaninOZ]

The gaffer said 

 

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, grizzlyg said:

Agree 100% , been saying this for weeks, think there is a player there but playing him totally wrong

Spot on Grizzly. He's being hung out to dry. Needs to play off a big target man. It was soul destroying watching a wee 5-10 striker trying to outmuscle 6-3 centre backs. All too often he was reduced to falling deep to collect the ball.  Manwhanise needs to play as a midfielder. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

5 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Spot on Grizzly. He's being hung out to dry. Needs to play off a big target man. It was soul destroying watching a wee 5-10 striker trying to outmuscle 6-3 centre backs. All too often he was reduced to falling deep to collect the ball.  Manwhanise needs to play as a midfielder. 

Agree 

[well_said]

15 minutes ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

The gaffer said 

 

Surprised to hear in his interview that there is a plan b and c , there's been precious little evidence that they actually exist.

[grizzlyg]

21 minutes ago, well_said said:

Surprised to hear in his interview that there is a plan b and c , there's been precious little evidence that they actually exist.

Plan B.....play hoofball to strikers

Plan C ..play hoofball to strikers 

[smiddy]

46 minutes ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

The gaffer said 

 

Simplfied as 

blah blah blah de blah 

we will see on wed 

you canny polish a shite

you can put glitter on it

but its still a shite

thank you 👍

[Kmcalpin]

Just a minor thought in the great scheme of things today. If Kaleta gets injured who replaces him? Why did Koutroumbis not get 10 or 15 minutes or so? We're 2 or 3 goals down and not getting a point so why not chuck him on to get a wee bit of gametime? Is he that poor that he can't be trusted? If so, why was he on the bench?

[Kmcalpin]

I won't bother expressing most of my detailed thoughts on yesterday's depressing debacle as they mirror many comments above.  Suffice to say we approached the game all wrong. Hibs are decent on the attack, as we saw, although defensive blunders helped their cause no end.  They are however weak in defence and so we should have adopted a more attacking attitude both in team selection and tactics. I have no problem with SK's cautious and dull defensive approach to games providing that it works. However teams have now sussed us out as we're starting to see and it now doesn't work. Today we didn't seem to have any coherent gameplan and simply repeated mistakes of previous weeks. We all know what they are. SK is a relatively young and inexperienced manager and will make mistakes but he shows no signs whatever of learning from them and that worries me.

Today Hibs were bigger, stronger and faster than us. We were worryingly lightweight in both midfield and attack. 

Our injury list has been horrendous and undoubtedly affected results and thats not SK's fault to a large extent. However Callachan and Nicholson did have concerning problems in that sense, when they were originally signed. That aside, our recruitment, taken as a whole,  last summer, seems to have been poorly planned. If we were going to play our current system, why wasn't Bair replaced with a large physical target man? If Nicholson was to get injured (not an unreasonable assumption at the time) who would be his replacement? What defensive midfielders did we sign apart from Davor? In short, little cover in these key positions.   

We've now had 2 very poor results indeed in consecutive winnable games. We can't afford this run to continue. Its now up to SK to earn his corn.......

[SteelmaninOZ]

3 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

Plan B.....play hoofball to strikers

Plan C ..play hoofball to strikers 

And repeat……

[MJC]

That was Kettlewell's Motherwell at it's very worst yesterday. Shocking defensively, slow in midfield and nothing up front. That's all that needs to be said.

On a separate note and I know this has been covered before but can we please, PLEASE stop putting small away supports in the top tier of the South Stand and leaving the lower tier empty?!? Not only does it kill the limited atmosphere there is but it also looks awful. I'm not buying this nonsense about preventing crowd trouble or giving us an advantage. Just stop doing it!

[wellsince75]

Going to point out the obvious -we don't play attacking football.  

For the last 10 games we've averaged 3.8 shots on target "we are not entertained". 

We can live with not being entertained when we're winning but this is very similar style (or lack of style) to GA era. 

All teams will have poor runs, we accept and understand this but for crying out loud during these cold , winter months we need something that we can get behind and cheer on.  This negative keep it tight ever game strategy is awful. 

[grizzlyg]

53 minutes ago, MJC said:

That was Kettlewell's Motherwell at it's very worst yesterday. Shocking defensively, slow in midfield and nothing up front. That's all that needs to be said.

On a separate note and I know this has been covered before but can we please, PLEASE stop putting small away supports in the top tier of the South Stand and leaving the lower tier empty?!? Not only does it kill the limited atmosphere there is but it also looks awful. I'm not buying this nonsense about preventing crowd trouble or giving us an advantage. Just stop doing it!

I agree, however Killie do the same. I don't get it

[MJC]

23 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

I agree, however Killie do the same. I don't get it

There's just no need for it imo.

I fail to see how it can give us an advantage shooting towards hundreds of empty seats and given we can't keep a clean sheet it doesn't seem to have the effect of disadvantaging the opposition either. 

And if it's crowd trouble that's the concern then why not shut off the section nearest the East Stand and fill the rest of the tier? That would be more than enough for the majority of away supports we get. 

[Kmcalpin]

29 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Going to point out the obvious -we don't play attacking football.  

For the last 10 games we've averaged 3.8 shots on target "we are not entertained". 

We can live with not being entertained when we're winning but this is very similar style (or lack of style) to GA era.

I like open attacking football, but as you say, am quite happy to accept a defensive approach, Jim MacLean style, as long as we win. However despite adopting an overly cautious defensive approach and defending deeply in depth, we still can't achieve clean sheets.  If the strikers aren't doing the business then we're in trouble. The defence, especially in the centre, needs sorting out. Its just as well we build up a bank of points early on.   

[mfc]

3 minutes ago, MJC said:

There's just no need for it imo.

I fail to see how it can give us an advantage shooting towards hundreds of empty seats and given we can't keep a clean sheet it doesn't seem to have the effect of disadvantaging the opposition either. 

And if it's crowd trouble that's the concern then why not shut off the section nearest the East Stand and fill the rest of the tier? That would be more than enough for the majority of away supports we get. 

I prefer the away fans in the bottom tier,it adds to the atmosphere and looks better when you see the game back on the tele.there is no advantage by having away fans up top,it's just a petty move by us and nothing more.

[mfc]

40 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Going to point out the obvious -we don't play attacking football.  

For the last 10 games we've averaged 3.8 shots on target "we are not entertained". 

We can live with not being entertained when we're winning but this is very similar style (or lack of style) to GA era. 

All teams will have poor runs, we accept and understand this but for crying out loud during these cold , winter months we need something that we can get behind and cheer on.  This negative keep it tight ever game strategy is awful. 

We have had shocking runs of form before under kettlewell and this could easily be the start of another if he doesn't act and change our approach,yet again it looks like the opposition have sussed us out pretty quickly.for a professional team to be averaging 3 shots a game is nothing short of embarrassing.

[wellfan]

10 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

SK is a relatively young and inexperienced manager and will make mistakes but he shows no signs whatever of learning from them and that worries me.

I agree with most of what you wrote in your overall post, but it’s this part that jumps out the most for me. It’s be said by many to a death.

There’s only so long that this situation can be acknowledged and then excused before questions are rightly asked. 

History is repeating itself here and his repeated (in)actions are demonstrating to me that he’s incapable of learning, which highlights that he’s just not very good at being a football manager. He has no plan A, let alone the B and C he refers to in his repeated excuses. 

[santheman]

Sitting in club 100 before the game expecting another shitfest of a game and confirmed when I saw the starting line up. I was very tempted just to stay in the club and wished I had after 15mins.

Totally bereft of ideas and leadership, bullied off and on the ball.

Some players looked disinterested.

All symptoms of a team staring relegation in the face not one sitting 5th in the League.

How things can change so quickly.

 

[Spiderpig]

28 minutes ago, wellfan said:

I agree with most of what you wrote in your overall post, but it’s this part that jumps out the most for me. It’s be said by many to a death.

There’s only so long that this situation can be acknowledged and then excused before questions are rightly asked. 

History is repeating itself here and his repeated (in)actions are demonstrating to me that he’s incapable of learning, which highlights that he’s just not very good at being a football manager. He has no plan A, let alone the B and C he refers to in his repeated excuses. 

I agree to some extent that he seems bereft of a plan B at times but he has to work with the players he has available and given our horrendous injury list i dont think hes had a full squad to pick from all season, so i would cut him some slack for that. It's not a crisis yet but we have a tough run of games over Christmas so by January it could be, and solution needs to be found soon.

 

[Spit_It_Out]

Kettlewell doesn't get any slack from me injuries this Injuries that far as I can see he has full fit forward line but just doesn't use them properly!This set up to squeak something out a game has been found out now we are into the 2nd phase of matches and Hibs gave everyone the blueprint.

Christ we could be 4 losses on the trot come a week today unless he takes a serious look at the absolutely honking set ups he is doing that results in shocking football we are not playing Celtic week in week out but you would think we are the way he has this team set up to play.

And no the players haven't downed tools and gave up the management team are fully to blame the players look like they are just carrying out what's been set up for them to do!

Kettlewell will not change he is too stubborn and  I for one won't be freezing my balls off making a round trip of 70 plus miles to watch this dugmeat go out with a wimper football.

I don't expect us to win every game but by christ I expect us to at least be set up and play to have a go at winning.

 

 

 

 

[Kmcalpin]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

Totally bereft of ideas and leadership, bullied off and on the ball.

Some players looked disinterested.

Yes, we have no leaders on the pitch and I don't think Lennon Miller being made temporary captain is helping him or us. 100!% on the nail about bullying. A bigger, physically stronger, team with a more aggressive attitude bullied us. I recall poor wee, but game, Davor being absolutely flattenend several times and Hibs also had that wrecking ball Bushiri going wild at the back. Apart from central defence, we really are soft as s**t.