Motherwell v Dundee United 14/12/2024

[santheman]

4 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Easily in the top 3 worst strips I've seen in decades of going to Fir Park. 

Looked like a Quality Street wrapper

[grizzlyg]

1 minute ago, santheman said:

Looked like a Quality Street wrapper

🤣🤣🤣, it was brutal

[Happy Dosser]

14 minutes ago, Richie said:

In Oxborough's defence, it did swem to me he was impeded slightly by his own defender.

That said, just clean out everything and take the foul which keepers invariably get.

"That said, just clean out everything and take the foul which keepers invariably get."

Yep, that's the traditional way, even if you  go through your own defender. I hope the coaching staff do some "mentoring" to reinforce the point. The Ox  had two great saves after that, three if he got a touch on Moult's crossbar-rattler, so he's worth working on.

[Spiderpig]

3 hours ago, Happy Dosser said:

The Ox  had two great saves after that, three if he got a touch on Moult's crossbar-rattler, so he's worth working on.

The Sportscene highlights showed he got a hand to it to divert it onto the bar, a brilliant save. 

[SteelmaninOZ]

Canny forget Sparrows goal

 

[Kmcalpin]

Lee Wilkie's take, in the Dundee Courier, of last weekend's VAR controversies.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/dundee-united/5146219/dundee-united-var-lee-wilkie-magnet-questionable-calls/

[StAndrew7]

2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

Lee Wilkie's take, in the Dundee Courier, of last weekend's VAR controversies.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/dundee-united/5146219/dundee-united-var-lee-wilkie-magnet-questionable-calls/

Any chance of a Ctrl C + Ctrl V for those of us who don't subscribe or can be arsed employing a workaround? 😅

[weeyin]

21 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

Any chance of a Ctrl C + Ctrl V for those of us who don't subscribe or can be arsed employing a workaround? 😅

The workaround is right-click, open in private window (or incognito window if you are Chrome user).

[StAndrew7]

5 minutes ago, weeyin said:

The workaround is right-click, open in private window (or incognito window if you are Chrome user).

Not for me. Same thing.

[Spiderpig]

I see the SFA are grovelling to the blue uglies apologising for not giving them a VAR assisted penalty in the league cup final.

I wonder if  we can expect the same after the ridiculous decisions at Dens Park the other week, im not holding my breath.

The amount of pandering and grovelling the ugly sisters get from the Scottish football Authorities at the expense of the other 40 clubs is an embarrassment that has no place in Scottish football.

[Kmcalpin]

8 hours ago, StAndrew7 said:

Any chance of a Ctrl C + Ctrl V for those of us who don't subscribe or can be arsed employing a workaround? 😅

Your wish is my command.

"Let’s be clear, United lost this game because of how they defended, not because of decisions made by the officials.

But VAR is really starting to infuriate me.

United games have seen VAR intervene on penalty decisions in each of the last three games.

Each decision has been argued over plenty.

Kevin Holt indicates a pull on his shirt to referee Nick Walsh at the end of Saturday’s clash. Image: Craig Foy/SNS

My main gripe with it is how the new technology affects the way defenders defend inside the area.

I noticed this quite clearly in Saturday’s game.

Incidents where a few years ago a defender would have no hesitation in sticking a foot in to win the ball now see defenders sit off.

It does impact the way teams defend because players aren’t thinking so much about how to defend but more about not giving away a spot-kick.

I dread to think if I was playing how I’d be treated these days!

It doesn’t take much for a penalty to be given.

And I do feel sorry for defenders, sometimes there really isn’t much they can do.

That goes for the penalty United won on Saturday.

It can be difficult to say in the moment but I’m not convinced Liam Gordon did enough to send Louis Moult to the ground.

Moult is clever in these situations and has shown that in recent weeks.

Then there’s the one Motherwell didn’t get from a Luca Stephenson challenge on the edge of the area.

And United were adamant there was a handball by Apostolos Stamatelopoulos before Motherwell’s fourth goal.

Add that to the decisions against Kilmarnock and St Mirren and it feels like Dundee United are becoming a magnet for debatable VAR calls." (source Courier)

Clearly there is confusion about the handball rule even with in the game. Not sure I agree with him about Louis Moult and the penalty though. 

[Stuwell2]

On VAR and the penalties, I feel that if DUtds was a penalty then so was the one for us and the inconsistency is what pisses me off. 
On the Rancid one, it’s similar circumstances to the one Andy Robertson gave away in the Liverpool game against Southampton a few weeks ago as the challenge is on the line of the box which is deemed part of the box - I’m never normally one to get involved in the arse cheeks bickering but VAR screwed up big time there. Ceptic fans can shout about sour grapes all they want but if it had happened up the other end they would have reacted exactly the same. 

[texanwellfan]

49 minutes ago, Stuwell2 said:

On VAR and the penalties, I feel that if DUtds was a penalty then so was the one for us and the inconsistency is what pisses me off. 
On the Rancid one, it’s similar circumstances to the one Andy Robertson gave away in the Liverpool game against Southampton a few weeks ago as the challenge is on the line of the box which is deemed part of the box - I’m never normally one to get involved in the arse cheeks bickering but VAR screwed up big time there. Ceptic fans can shout about sour grapes all they want but if it had happened up the other end they would have reacted exactly the same. 

That’s a part of the issue though, isn’t it? If Celtic had said, wow! We got away with one there, that should have been a PK. Teams/ managers/officials need to start telling the truth about dubious/wrong calls. 
 

[weeyin]

I haven't bothered rewatching the Rangers one, but at the time I thought the Rangers player initially fouled the defender by grabbing his shirt, so anything else after that was moot.

[santheman]

I'm more worried about the increasing number of wrong calls being made by VAR.

I appreciate its a difficult task when decisions have to be made there and then but things don't seem to be getting any better.

Every system has its teething problems but the Refs don't seem to be learning anything from the same kind of mistakes being highlighted time and time again by the review panel.

All we're looking for is consistency.

[robsterwood]

Penalty against us in this game never should have been awarded. Sportcene panel agree too. Sometimes var looks for incidents that are not even fouls as operators want to prove it's worth. Over analysing events and disrupting game.

[Kmcalpin]

35 minutes ago, robsterwood said:

Penalty against us in this game never should have been awarded.

If that incident had occurred in the centre circle, would it have been deemed to be a foul? I think not.

[weeyin]

I was dubious of any value of VAR before it was introduced, and it has actually been worse than I feared.

As predicted, the number of poor decisions hasn't really changed,. Instead we just get a different kind of wrong with the added bonus of long delays before they're made.

When you watch Scottish and English lower league games, the number of dubious decisions is pretty low and rarely controversial. If something happens, players and fans might complain for 10 seconds, but the game moves on quickly and so do they.

The very least they could do is put a time limit on decisions. 30 seconds max and if they don't see anything different from the ref by then, their decision stands.

I'd be delighted to scrap it though.

 

[texanwellfan]

4 hours ago, robsterwood said:

Penalty against us in this game never should have been awarded. Sportcene panel agree too. Sometimes var looks for incidents that are not even fouls as operators want to prove it's worth. Over analysing events and disrupting game.

The ref was looking right at it during the game and was pretty close and saw nothing. Not sure how he changed his mind after VAR, Gordon clearly is moving to play the ball and Utd player runs across his foot/leg. it’s the Utd player who hits Gordon’s leg

VAR is a good tool to have but it is not being used properly. Let the officials ref the game and help them with OBVIOUS ERRORS, not microscopic offside calls, or decisions that take 2 minutes to figure out. 

[StAndrew7]

7 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

VAR is a good tool to have but it is not being used properly. Let the officials ref the game and help them with OBVIOUS ERRORS, not microscopic offside calls, or decisions that take 2 minutes to figure out. 

To play devil's advocate slightly here, would you not be absolutely raging if replays showed an opposition player was half a yard (or less) offside when they score the goal to stop us getting European football, or getting into a cup final knowing that VAR could have stopped it?

There's quite a lot of focus on video assistants across sports right now; there's a big discussion in the NHL about inconsistencies between games in calls for interfering with the goaltender, miniscule offside decisions etc. There's chat about there being a time limit, or perhaps not being allowed to use slow-mo to make a revised call, as that's not something the on-ice officials have. Some of the delays have taken 4 or 5 minutes each with multiple reviews a game, which in hockey is mad.

I agree it's not working. I think an awful lot of that is down to the (in)competency of the officials in Scotland. I do hope that there's training/case studies being written of all of the incorrect decisions which are being made and those are being used for training/to rectify them, or at the very least minimise the risk of them reoccurring. 

[weeyin]

1 hour ago, StAndrew7 said:

To play devil's advocate slightly here, would you not be absolutely raging if replays showed an opposition player was half a yard (or less) offside when they score the goal to stop us getting European football, or getting into a cup final knowing that VAR could have stopped it?

As opposed to being absolutely raging if VAR awarded a non-penalty (like against Utd) with the same consequences?

I'll take that risk and still scrap it. (Especially as I hate the 0.5cm offside - which was never the intention of that rule, and needs a post-VAR update).

[texanwellfan]

2 hours ago, weeyin said:

As opposed to being absolutely raging if VAR awarded a non-penalty (like against Utd) with the same consequences?

I'll take that risk and still scrap it. (Especially as I hate the 0.5cm offside - which was never the intention of that rule, and needs a post-VAR update).

Agree intentional of the rule was to stop players camping out in attacking half. 

[0Neils40yarder]

14 hours ago, weeyin said:

As opposed to being absolutely raging if VAR awarded a non-penalty (like against Utd) with the same consequences?

I'll take that risk and still scrap it. (Especially as I hate the 0.5cm offside - which was never the intention of that rule, and needs a post-VAR update).

I agree...its a load of shite, and the hours of utter tedious discussions on Sundays cup final prove that.

 

That said, I see no way that we will ever see the back of the system being involved in the game

[Spiderpig]

2 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

I agree...its a load of shite, and the hours of utter tedious discussions on Sundays cup final prove that.

 

 

It may seem tedious but the bottom line is that the failure to award a penalty and the officials then admitting they made a James Hunt of it , probably cost Rangers a cup win, how would you feel if that had been against us?

The clubs should be demanding change from the SFA, as they have no accountability VAR should be scrapped until it is fit for purpose. Watch the VAR review show on YouTube, every time it's on Willie Colum is admitting his team got it wrong on at least 1 or 2 occasions and yet the same people are still in a job.

[joewarkfanclub]

57 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

It may seem tedious but the bottom line is that the failure to award a penalty and the officials then admitting they made a James Hunt of it , probably cost Rangers a cup win, how would you feel if that had been against us?

The clubs should be demanding change from the SFA, as they have no accountability VAR should be scrapped until it is fit for purpose. Watch the VAR review show on YouTube, every time it's on Willie Colum is admitting his team got it wrong on at least 1 or 2 occasions and yet the same people are still in a job.

I think saying it cost them a cup win is stretching it.

There is no guarantee that they would have scored the penalty and even if they did, Celtic still had time to rectify the situation.

Its a poor decision. But football has seen much worse and survived.

As far as accountability goes, Collum has stated there is a system in place to reward/punish the performances of officials. They just dont advertise it to protect their colleagues the same way managers protect their players.

Given the limited pool we already have to choose from, Im not sure firing them altogether is a good idea let alone legal due to employment law.

Bottom line is, VAR is very frustrating. Id rather we hadnt introduced it, but its here and never going away. It has improved a bit this season, but it still has a long way to go.