Motherwell v Kilmarnock 20/12/2024

[stv]

We could and should have won that if we had a manager that was a bit more dynamic and willing to keep going for another goal instead of holding onto what we have when the game gets stale . As has been said before his subs were wrong the last two subs should have been his first two subs it was obvious that we needed speed up front to push for a second goal and stop them pushing forward. I think their goal was comming for about 10 mins and we did fuk all about it. The faster forward players would have taken pressure off our defence. It's not fair on Stam to play him up front himself he needs players beside him in the box. SK never seems to play to players to their strengths . He's probably a good manager at our leval albeit reactive rather than pro active but exciting he definitely ain't .

[David]

2 hours ago, Electric Blues said:

Not delighted, I'll grant you, but St Johnstone fans currently seem to be fairly positive about how Simo's got them playing, despite sitting just one point off the bottom after a run of poor results. Mind you, if things don't pick up for them after the January window, it'll be interesting to see how quickly they turn on him.

A new manager always gets a bit of grace. How long has Simo been there now? A couple of months? At the moment he's lost twice as many games as he's won, and his team sit in 11th. I certainly wouldn't be trading places with them.

2 hours ago, wellfan said:

Our current league position speaks for itself, so fair enough, but it’s also a reflection of how poor a lot of teams around us are this season. Notwithstanding, we were utter garbage last night and a draw was a fair result. It was the wrong starting 11 and subs were made too late to be effective. We badly need a striker that fits Kettlewell’s preferred system and a midfielder to solidify the heart of the team. 

Are we really reverting to the tired old "we're fourth, so every other team must be rubbish" narrative? It seems some people roll that out every time we break into the top six.

The fact is, we’re exactly where we’ve earned the right to be. Right now, we’re the fourth-best team in the league, and whether other sides are brilliant, dreadful, or somewhere in between is irrelevant.

Heading into Christmas sitting fourth in the table, with a cup semi-final secured, is a brilliant position to be in.

1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Of course that all depends on how the opposition sets up and how they effect your gameplan. Last night was a good example of that.

This is such an important point. A lot of our supporters focus solely on what we’re doing, assuming that if the manager selects the “right” team and employs the “right” tactics, everything will fall into place. But football doesn’t work like that—our opponents play a massive role too.

Many of the common criticisms and complaints could probably be addressed and explained by the manager, highlighting factors most of us wouldn’t even consider. For example, when we argue that TJ should start ahead of Watt, are we factoring in how McInnes might set his team up to counter that? Or how that decision could create vulnerabilities elsewhere for Kilmarnock to exploit?

No, we see TJ come on for the last 15 minutes, play well, and think, “Well, he should’ve started—surely he’d have delivered that same performance over the entire game. Poor choice by the manager.” It’s rarely that simple.

[grizzlyg]

My night was completed when after the Mariah Carey song at half time it was announced ove4 the tannoy it was a special request for me!!, my mate's lad knows the announcer so they played wee trick on me as they know I hate that song 🤪🤪🤪

[Mad Dog]

19 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

My night was completed when after the Mariah Carey song at half time it was announced ove4 the tannoy it was a special request for me!!, my mate's lad knows the announcer so they played wee trick on me as they know I hate that song 🤪🤪🤪

Played a trick on everyone: who doesn't hate that song?

[Big Stall]

Not going to waste time on the red card. Everyone & their dug knows it was wrong, including the VAR operators who gave the ref a golden get out by sending him to the tv.

Aside from that, it was a brutal game. Maybe some of it was down to the stop start nature as Kettlewell said but the reality is we didnt actually look to have a real go until we were down to 10men.

Honking football, at least it was a friday & could wash it away with pints. Positive - another point gained. But thats all. 

[Kmcalpin]

3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

My beef with SK this week is that once again his subs were reactive instead of pro-active.

At 1-0 we should have been trying to change it up and reinforce our lead rather than just waiting and hoping Killie wouldnt score.

Halliday and Paton were always going to tire. We should have got on the front foot at that point and gave them something to think about at the back rather than giving them free reign to change their attacking options.

Davor was such a negative substitution and he was one of those involved in the lead up to Polworths goal.

I wouldnt have started Maswanhise. But he should have been on at 60 minutes.

It was clear long before Killie scored that they had the upper hand that we were defending deeper and deeper and withdrawing into our box. Our midfield had disappeared. We had no width and no leadership on the pitch. No problem with Paton and Halliday being taken off for the reasons that you say, but it was too late and the wrong changes made. They should have been retired at about the 55/60 minute mark and Sparrow and Manwhanise introduced to the fray.  That was a huge error of judgement. When Davor appeared Killie would have been given a huge psychological boost. That signalled to them that we were quite happy to sit back and soak up any pressure. 

[Clackscat]

18 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Absolutely bizarre stuff from the refereeing/var team tonight.

Giving the red card is one thing...but having the ability to 'have another look' and then double down, is quite another. Totally baffling stuff and another black mark against VAR for me...

 

Less said about Killies penalty appeal, the better. Again, what are the VAR folk looking at?

 

On the game, we looked jaded, well off it and didn't really ever control the game at all. A point is a decent outcome

VAR not at fault for red card, they did the right thing by asking the clown of a ref to look at it again

[grumpy]

The argument could be made that the Seddon injury, and substitution, caused a necessary rethinking of the later substitutions. In an ideal world, Seddon would have lasted 90 minutes allowing O'Donnell to replace Kaleta, giving us more defensive nous at the end when we were under pressure. I agree that the subsequent substitutions should have been earlier, both due to fatigue (Ap Stam, Watt & Halliday) and tactically, getting TJ into the fray earlier. We could have risked Paton or Watt playing 90 minutes and replaced the other one with O'Donnell allowing Kaleta to move forward, or to put O'Donnell on instead of Moses, but everything is easier with hindsight.

[texanwellfan]

42 minutes ago, grumpy said:

The argument could be made that the Seddon injury, and substitution, caused a necessary rethinking of the later substitutions. In an ideal world, Seddon would have lasted 90 minutes allowing O'Donnell to replace Kaleta, giving us more defensive nous at the end when we were under pressure. I agree that the subsequent substitutions should have been earlier, both due to fatigue (Ap Stam, Watt & Halliday) and tactically, getting TJ into the fray earlier. We could have risked Paton or Watt playing 90 minutes and replaced the other one with O'Donnell allowing Kaleta to move forward, or to put O'Donnell on instead of Moses, but everything is easier with hindsight.

You mention hindsight but surely Seddon injury is just sub on Wilson as direct replacement. A number of posters pre game were ok with starting Watt with the intention of replacing him with TJ after about an hour and also bringing on Sparrow at the same time to keep up the energy in midfield. You have O’Donnell on the bench as direct replacement for Kaletta tiring or injury. So it’s not all with hindsight. 
I’m a supporter of SK and keeping him here despite his faults (all managers have their specific faults) but it is very frustrating when there is apparently a sensible simple option for keeping up our performance levels with appropriate subs at the right time. 

[grumpy]

39 minutes ago, texanwellfan said:

You mention hindsight but surely Seddon injury is just sub on Wilson as direct replacement. A number of posters pre game were ok with starting Watt with the intention of replacing him with TJ after about an hour and also bringing on Sparrow at the same time to keep up the energy in midfield. You have O’Donnell on the bench as direct replacement for Kaletta tiring or injury. So it’s not all with hindsight. 
I’m a supporter of SK and keeping him here despite his faults (all managers have their specific faults) but it is very frustrating when there is apparently a sensible simple option for keeping up our performance levels with appropriate subs at the right time. 

Wilson for Seddon was the substitution that was made, my point was the knock on effect of only having 4 more subs. I thought Kaleta was well off the level of the previous week and being replaced with O'Donnell would have had a beneficial effect for the team balance (IMO). My point on hindsight was that the timing and personnel involved in the substitutions ended up with us getting a point despite a numerical dis-advantage, a plus in my book, different choices my have ended in a different result. I wasn't being (over) critical of Kettlewell, I actually quite like him. I was just voicing an opinion that he possibly could have done better with his substitutions.

The bottom line is, I'm glad I'm not the manager 'cos results don't rest on my opinions.