Motherwell v Rangers 29/12/2024

[Welly Machine]

2 hours ago, Richie said:

There was certainly no push.

There was a coming together, with Watt's arm up for leverage

Seen it back now. You're right Richie, uses his arm for leverage but I think we are a bit unlucky with that one. Other than the arm up, Watt is standing his ground and challenging rather than jumping in to Butland. 

[texanwellfan]

43 minutes ago, santheman said:

I never feel comfortable even being 2 up against the Old Firm because you know they have quality on the bench if they need to change things up.

Was delighted when I saw Cerny and Igamane on the bench because they are Rangers 2 best players at the moment and Igamane single handedly got Rangers that point today.

If only we could have held them out for the first 20 mins of the 2nd half I'm pretty sure we would have held onto the 3 points but when they scored so early I felt we panicked a bit and retreated into our shell. I don't think anyone would have been surprised when the equaliser went in.

What impressed me was at that stage it would have been easy just to fold completely and let Rangers run over the top of us but credit to the boys they dug in and fought their way back into the game.

2 games in 4 days against the OF will no doubt take its toll physically and mentally which is something that shouldn't be overlooked.

Disappointing not getting 3 points from our position at half time but done well to come away with 1 point after loosing goal so early in second half. Also agree with your comment on playing OF back to back 3 days apart. Also held up well, mentally, against disappointments of disallowed goals. BH from being 3-1 up. Then being faced with 10 mins added on. So all things considered a good days work, still having a go at it right up to the end, with a well earned point. 

[Kmcalpin]

13 minutes ago, Welly Machine said:

Seen it back now. You're right Richie, uses his arm for leverage but I think we are a bit unlucky with that one. Other than the arm up, Watt is standing his ground and challenging rather than jumping in to Butland. 

Assuming that's the case  (I haven't yet seen it), it would not be a foul anywhere else on the pitch. 

[texanwellfan]

2 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Assuming that's the case  (I haven't yet seen it), it would not be a foul anywhere else on the pitch. 

Very soft free kick 

[robsterwood]

Mentality good today. We should have won game 3.1 or 4.1 but team done well to play in after decisions against us and get point. I think we missed big chance today if beating them and it's officials that kept gers in game. I want financial fair play and I want fair referee.

[star sail]

I find the perspective of some of the comments on here regarding the disallowed goal and SK reaction to the decision a little strange.

We are allowed as fans to be biased in favour of our own team. It is part of the game to look at the world through Claret and Amber specs. 

Rangers have made an art form over decades of putting pressure on match officials so that 50/50 decisions get viewed 55/45 in their favour.

They have piled on the pressure since the league cup final and it has gained traction in the press. This is designed to make it more difficult for match officials to decide against them in future games (particularly the next OF game). They do this because it works. No conspiracy, no agenda on the side of the referees, it is just human nature to balance a decision on it's potential repercussions. 

The question I would ask is had the roles been reversed would Oxborough have benefited from the same decision in the same circumstances when the score was 2-0 or 2-1. I don't think he would because it would have been a tougher decision for the VAR officials to make. That is just the laws of human nature and it is a law that the OF are very good at working to their advantage.

I welcome SK showing the passion, the frustration and standing up for his team and his club. 

I find it odd that some don't seem to share his passion given the Motherwell bias that is our right as subjective, irrational football fans. In a different circumstance, the goal could have been given.

You can guarantee that had Rangers been disallowed a similar goal they would make plenty of it and another strongly worded statement could have been making it's way to anybody who would listen. 

 

[AllyMax]

6 minutes ago, star sail said:

I find the perspective of some of the comments on here regarding the disallowed goal and SK reaction to the decision a little strange.

We are allowed as fans to be biased in favour of our own team. It is part of the game to look at the world through Claret and Amber specs. 

Rangers have made an art form over decades of putting pressure on match officials so that 50/50 decisions get viewed 55/45 in their favour.

They have piled on the pressure since the league cup final and it has gained traction in the press. This is designed to make it more difficult for match officials to decide against them in future games (particularly the next OF game). They do this because it works. No conspiracy, no agenda on the side of the referees, it is just human nature to balance a decision on it's potential repercussions. 

The question I would ask is had the roles been reversed would Oxborough have benefited from the same decision in the same circumstances when the score was 2-0 or 2-1. I don't think he would because it would have been a tougher decision for the VAR officials to make. That is just the laws of human nature and it is a law that the OF are very good at working to their advantage.

I welcome SK showing the passion, the frustration and standing up for his team and his club. 

I find it odd that some don't seem to share his passion given the Motherwell bias that is our right as subjective, irrational football fans. In a different circumstance, the goal could have been given.

You can guarantee that had Rangers been disallowed a similar goal they would make plenty of it and another strongly worded statement could have been making it's way to anybody who would listen. 

 

Me too mate, me too. Even to the point of a poster saying 'it was a foul all day long.' Even the h**s I know said 'they got off with one there'. There was no way that would be a foul anywhere else or under any other circumstances. 

[Spit_It_Out]

All things aside we didn't really come out the 2nd half which was disappointing for me we sort of went back to hoof ball and was asking for trouble.

On a plus note Stam and Tawanda up front looked like they could have something really good together.

[Kmcalpin]

29 minutes ago, star sail said:

We are allowed as fans to be biased in favour of our own team. It is part of the game to look at the world through Claret and Amber specs. ..............You can guarantee that had Rangers been disallowed a similar goal they would make plenty of it and another strongly worded statement could have been making it's way to anybody who would listen.

A fair bit of merit in what you say. However Sevco and Celtic are big enough and powerful enough to intimidate the SFA/SPFL, their officials and the media.  Referees cannot stand up to them and consciously or otherwise tend to favour them, maybe for understandable reasons.  The media is scared stiff that if they upset them they will be denied access to them for reporting and that in turn will affect their sales.  Its a different story, in varying degrees,  however for the other clubs. In terms of VAR and refereeing you'd hope that any complaints would be met with indifference but more likely than not they're met with covert hostility. 

It might look good to the fans if SK sounds off aggressively and might make him feel better, but its only going to elicit a stubborn reaction from many officials. That said he's only human and I'd probably do the same in his situation.  The problem is that its our players and we fans who'll suffer when referees and VAR officials kickback. Again being human, its a very detached emotionless individual who can go out of their way to be fair to someone who's made a very public complaint againt them. 

I once asked an established referee what he considered to be dissent. His reply was it varies according to the individual. If some players constantly moaned or complained he would deal with them more harshly.  I also recall one of our players telling me outside outside Tynecastle that he'd be yellow carded in the game, because the referee didn't like him.  He was and not for anything serious or obvious.

At our level, you don't beat the system.  

[texanwellfan]

1 hour ago, star sail said:

I find the perspective of some of the comments on here regarding the disallowed goal and SK reaction to the decision a little strange.

We are allowed as fans to be biased in favour of our own team. It is part of the game to look at the world through Claret and Amber specs. 

Rangers have made an art form over decades of putting pressure on match officials so that 50/50 decisions get viewed 55/45 in their favour.

They have piled on the pressure since the league cup final and it has gained traction in the press. This is designed to make it more difficult for match officials to decide against them in future games (particularly the next OF game). They do this because it works. No conspiracy, no agenda on the side of the referees, it is just human nature to balance a decision on it's potential repercussions. 

The question I would ask is had the roles been reversed would Oxborough have benefited from the same decision in the same circumstances when the score was 2-0 or 2-1. I don't think he would because it would have been a tougher decision for the VAR officials to make. That is just the laws of human nature and it is a law that the OF are very good at working to their advantage.

I welcome SK showing the passion, the frustration and standing up for his team and his club. 

I find it odd that some don't seem to share his passion given the Motherwell bias that is our right as subjective, irrational football fans. In a different circumstance, the goal could have been given.

You can guarantee that had Rangers been disallowed a similar goal they would make plenty of it and another strongly worded statement could have been making it's way to anybody who would listen. 

 

With all the shite that goes on in the box during free kicks and corner kicks, that has got to be one of the softest calls I’ve ever seen

[texanwellfan]

1 hour ago, Spit_It_Out said:

All things aside we didn't really come out the 2nd half which was disappointing for me we sort of went back to hoof ball and was asking for trouble.

On a plus note Stam and Tawanda up front looked like they could have something really good together.

Seems like we are getting into a rut of starting the second half of games very poorly. SK needs to figure out what’s going on and sort that out. Not sure if it’s mental or physical or both but him (and the players) need to find something that has us come roaring out the blocks at the start of second half during games. 

[MFCL84]

I just watched back the Sportscene coverage of the game today. Butland's error was just that. From what i saw on Sportscene,  Watt held his ground, Butland tried to jump over him to punch clear and simply made a mess of it. For me, a ridiculous decision to rule out a goal for that. There was a much more blatant push on a keeper shown on Match of the Day tonight and VAR decided that the goal stood. What a state our game is in.

[MFCL84]

A bit off topic, but the Sportscene coverage was absolutely appalling.  All about Rangers, no real analysis of the key points in the game. Completely amateurish production and presentation. 

Finally, does anyone think that Rangers first goal had a distinct possibility of offside? It looked to me that a Rangers player, in an offside position, interfered with Ox line of sight to the ball.

[AllyMax]

2 minutes ago, MFCL84 said:

A bit off topic, but the Sportscene coverage was absolutely appalling.  All about Rangers, no real analysis of the key points in the game. Completely amateurish production and presentation. 

Finally, does anyone think that Rangers first goal had a distinct possibility of offside? It looked to me that a Rangers player, in an offside position, interfered with Ox line of sight to the ball.

I thought there was 100% someone offside when the shot was taken that hit the post in the build up.  I also thought Kaleta was nowhere near the pace of the game today. Posted missing in defence numerous times. Then later on he gave the ball away a couple of time because he basically didn't move. Should have been hooked 10-15 mins before he was.

[texanwellfan]

7 minutes ago, MFCL84 said:

A bit off topic, but the Sportscene coverage was absolutely appalling.  All about Rangers, no real analysis of the key points in the game. Completely amateurish production and presentation. 

Finally, does anyone think that Rangers first goal had a distinct possibility of offside? It looked to me that a Rangers player, in an offside position, interfered with Ox line of sight to the ball.

I thought as much as well but couldn’t be arsed looking more closely since it’s a done deal. So coming out of the game, all things considered, with a point is a job well done by players. 

[robsterwood]

Poor reflection of match. Motherwell s 3rd goal should stand. Want complaining my about that one. 4th goal millimetres out of line. Very poor officiating. 

[robsterwood]

Watt doesn't touch butland? That's atrocious decision that cost us win .

[robsterwood]

Sportceno e not looking at any disallowed goals. Very poor and biased journalism." Lets move on" as Thomson says . Blue arse cheek still haven't moved in from final if league cup. 😂 I

[MFCL84]

3 hours ago, AllyMax said:

also thought Kaleta was nowhere near the pace of the game today. Posted missing in defence numerous times. Then later on he gave the ball away a couple of time because he basically didn't move. Should have been hooked 10-15 mins before he was.

I have to agree. He was very slow to react on a number of occasions today and didn't look interested. Maybe he was suffering from a knock or a virus. Definitely should have been replaced earlier than he was.

[Spiderpig]

8 hours ago, MFCL84 said:

I just watched back the Sportscene coverage of the game today. Butland's error was just that. From what i saw on Sportscene,  Watt held his ground, Butland tried to jump over him to punch clear and simply made a mess of it. For me, a ridiculous decision to rule out a goal for that. There was a much more blatant push on a keeper shown on Match of the Day tonight and VAR decided that the goal stood. What a state our game is in.

Watch the highlights, Watts arm was on the keepers shoulder, whether it stopped him jumping is debatable but you are never going to get away with that, clancy called it as a foul right away and VAR confirmed it.

As for the 2nd incident it's Casey who is off with the 1st header, he is leaning forward so head and shoulder is offside, again it might only be millimetres but when they draw the lines it's offside.. I personally think it's pish but until they scrap it or come up with a better version we have to suffer it.

Nobody would have complained if they had been Rangers goals that Var disallowed.

[Spiderpig]

7 hours ago, robsterwood said:

Watt doesn't touch butland? That's atrocious decision that cost us win .

Yes he did, his arm is on Butlands shoulder, clancy called it as a foul right away.

[wellon]

10 hours ago, star sail said:

I find the perspective of some of the comments on here regarding the disallowed goal and SK reaction to the decision a little strange.

We are allowed as fans to be biased in favour of our own team. It is part of the game to look at the world through Claret and Amber specs. 

Rangers have made an art form over decades of putting pressure on match officials so that 50/50 decisions get viewed 55/45 in their favour.

They have piled on the pressure since the league cup final and it has gained traction in the press. This is designed to make it more difficult for match officials to decide against them in future games (particularly the next OF game). They do this because it works. No conspiracy, no agenda on the side of the referees, it is just human nature to balance a decision on it's potential repercussions. 

The question I would ask is had the roles been reversed would Oxborough have benefited from the same decision in the same circumstances when the score was 2-0 or 2-1. I don't think he would because it would have been a tougher decision for the VAR officials to make. That is just the laws of human nature and it is a law that the OF are very good at working to their advantage.

I welcome SK showing the passion, the frustration and standing up for his team and his club. 

I find it odd that some don't seem to share his passion given the Motherwell bias that is our right as subjective, irrational football fans. In a different circumstance, the goal could have been given.

You can guarantee that had Rangers been disallowed a similar goal they would make plenty of it and another strongly worded statement could have been making it's way to anybody who would listen. 

 

Yep agree and Celtic work a similar angle,  calling out Beaton as a

" Rangers fan" in public , using reverse psychology to get decisions

[wellon]

4 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Watch the highlights, Watts arm was on the keepers shoulder, whether it stopped him jumping is debatable but you are never going to get away with that, clancy called it as a foul right away and VAR confirmed it.

As for the 2nd incident it's Casey who is off with the 1st header, he is leaning forward so head and shoulder is offside, again it might only be millimetres but when they draw the lines it's offside.. I personally think it's pish but until they scrap it or come up with a better version we have to suffer it.

Nobody would have complained if they had been Rangers goals that Var disallowed.

If we had lost the goal from corner to Rangers and it was disallowed,  I would thought we got away with one...

[Richie]

A bit simplistic, but if we press a yard harder on Cerny and don't allow him to cross the ball with impunity, then they don't score so early in the second half and we arguably win the game.

Its one of my biggest bugbears along with not showing for throw-ins and just launching it up the line... Going out to press/stop a cross, but stopping 3/4 of the way needed to do it effectively.

Obviously there are dangers in diving in, but this wasn't the case here as Cerny was pretty much stationary at the time IIRC.

That's nit-picking a bit, but those are the fine margins.

It was a decent performance and result, albeit a bit frustrating again.

[santheman]

8 hours ago, MFCL84 said:

I just watched back the Sportscene coverage of the game today. Butland's error was just that. From what i saw on Sportscene,  Watt held his ground, Butland tried to jump over him to punch clear and simply made a mess of it. For me, a ridiculous decision to rule out a goal for that. There was a much more blatant push on a keeper shown on Match of the Day tonight and VAR decided that the goal stood. What a state our game is in.

And that's it in a nutshell.

The rules are supposed to be the same the world over but the way they are applied up here makes a mockery of the whole system.

That goal would never have been disallowed in the EPL.

I've said it before if a Scottish Referee and VAR team officiated at an EPL game we would see numerous ordering offs and a penalty at every corner.

Theres just no physicality allowed up here at all.

The amount of VAR calls we're getting now for innocuous incidents is plain ridiculous and spoiling the game.