2025/26 Ins & Outs Discussion

[Mad Dog]

5 hours ago, Spit_It_Out said:

I wouldnt be shocked if Balcombe is here on a season loan again or signed on a contract pretty clear Wimmer fancies him.

Does he? Balcombe's only in the team because Ox was injured.

[Ya Bezzer!]

On 4/7/2025 at 7:12 PM, well_said said:

This problem started with the boards inability to get shot of kettlewell before he walked and I remember you were in the kettlewell shouldn't have left camp contrary to the vast majority of posters on here . That prat has left our club in deep shit. 

There's been a couple of times in the last 5 or 6 years when were were in deep shit.

The post police charge collapse under Robinson and the whole Hammell era which only came into being because another manager was forced out the club.

Motherwell fans need to get a grip.  In the natural order we are a Bottom 6 club every season and the only time we aren't are when we over achieve and others underachieve.

'That prat' had this team Top 6 all season, achieved a semi final, saved us from relegation once and had us comfortable last season.

Sure it's a little bit nervy going into the last stage of the season but the only non city team that's better than us this term is St Mirren and then only by a small margin.

Our fans need to get some perspective and stop the doom/crisis/it's never been worse/gut the club cycle.

 

[smiddy]

4 hours ago, WellHighlander said:

On the pitch, I've huge concerns that we can muster the points needed to avoid a play-off, but regardless of what happens, huge changes are needed off it.

There is little doubt it's virtually a complete clear out that's required. Undoubtedly one of the worst Motherwell squads assembled in my 30-plus years of supporting the club.

Personally disappointed to see the club sign SOD. At one-time a few seasons ago solid performer for club and country, but never a player who works in a back three and has been culpable for the loss of several goals this season. Cannot see how his performances merited an extension, but maybe time to work with the new manager will bring about a new lease of life.

Sparrow extending makes sense. A versatile player who can be of value to a squad, but not sure he'd be in my first-team. One of only a few, however, that seems to genuinely put a shift in.

Delighted to see Slattery stay. If Wimmer can get him into the right areas of the pitch then no doubt he can contribute goals and assists. Still feeling his way back after a bad injury, but with a good pre-season behind him he could become a key player.

Out of the rest, I'd keep Ox, maybe Seddon at a real push, Gordon, McGinn (used as a squad player) and Stama but for me that's it.

Miller will be sold to fund this rebuild and if it's on our terms then I'd think about Casey, but I'd certainly not be breaking the bank.

We need to be ruthless and this is the ideal time to do that. The squad, even without the loans, is bloated and severely lacks quality and consistency. If this season has shown anything, we cannot afford to carry people. It needs to be a much tighter ship.

We have also drifted away from offering our young players an opportunity. Wimmer needs to address this as a priority because at the moment, there doesn't seem to be much coming through, but perhaps the opportunities have been limited due to the obscene amount of loan players that have been brought in, the majority having no sort of impact at all.

I appreciate injuries have played their part, but this is a squad that has had opportunities and time and again they've let the support down.

Making such wholesale changes is not with risk and patience will be required, but the board need to show they back Wimmer and are bold enough to want to bring about a change in the dressing room culture that at the moment seems entrenched in mediocrity - and the acceptance of it.

 

Well thought out post

that you PIE ??

[weeyin]

I'm jealous of the people who rank this squad as "the worst they have ever seen".

They've had it easy!

[wellfan]

13 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

There's been a couple of times in the last 5 or 6 years when were were in deep shit.

The post police charge collapse under Robinson and the whole Hammell era which only came into being because another manager was forced out the club.

Motherwell fans need to get a grip.  In the natural order we are a Bottom 6 club every season and the only time we aren't are when we over achieve and others underachieve.

'That prat' had this team Top 6 all season, achieved a semi final, saved us from relegation once and had us comfortable last season.

Sure it's a little bit nervy going into the last stage of the season but the only non city team that's better than us this term is St Mirren and then only by a small margin.

Our fans need to get some perspective and stop the doom/crisis/it's never been worse/gut the club cycle.

 

Defeatist bollocks. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

6 hours ago, wellfan said:

Defeatist bollocks. 

How is it defeatist to actually acknowledge we got to a semi final this year?

[wellfan]

8 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

How is it defeatist to actually acknowledge we got to a semi final this year?

Because talk of ‘natural order’ is defeatist. With that attitude, we might as well not bother. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 minute ago, wellfan said:

Because talk of ‘natural order’ is defeatist. With that attitude, we might as well not bother. 

You know why you shouldn't bother? 

Because when you have relative success like achieving Top 6, Europe and the later stages of cup competitions our fans throw it back in your face.

I'm afraid the kind of football and the kind of success a lot of our fans want only happens once in a blue moon when year and years of work comes together and otherwise is mainly dependent on what mostly makes the world go round - money.

Ever wondered why we gut the team every season and things don't seem to get much better?  Cos we pay a certain level of wages and there's a level of player that you get for that expenditure.  Sure some are better than others but it averages out.

It's that simple.  So what you call defeatist, I call a realistic outlook.  

I've been going to Fir Park for 43 years.  I've seen maybe 5 or 6 individual teams that actually played good football and a few of them were in a completely different football environment before massive wage increases and player contract rights.

The funny thing is players like Ally Maxwell, Dougie Arnott or Jamie Dolan who were developed by the club over 3 or 4 years before they hit their stride would be sent packing by fans these days who have absolutely no patience and demand instant success.

And the one trophy we have won in all that time would never have happened if the fans had had their way.  

     

[wellsince75]

1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

You know why you shouldn't bother? 

Because when you have relative success like achieving Top 6, Europe and the later stages of cup competitions our fans throw it back in your face.

I'm afraid the kind of football and the kind of success a lot of our fans want only happens once in a blue moon when year and years of work comes together and otherwise is mainly dependent on what mostly makes the world go round - money.

Ever wondered why we gut the team every season and things don't seem to get much better?  Cos we pay a certain level of wages and there's a level of player that you get for that expenditure.  Sure some are better than others but it averages out.

It's that simple.  So what you call defeatist, I call a realistic outlook.  

I've been going to Fir Park for 43 years.  I've seen maybe 5 or 6 individual teams that actually played good football and a few of them were in a completely different football environment before massive wage increases and player contract rights.

The funny thing is players like Ally Maxwell, Dougie Arnott or Jamie Dolan who were developed by the club over 3 or 4 years before they hit their stride would be sent packing by fans these days who have absolutely no patience and demand instant success.

And the one trophy we have won in all that time would never have happened if the fans had had their way.  

     

For me the McLean era highlights what we can do over a sustained period of time. Not easy but this is something we should be looking to replicate and accept we're a long term project.

McLean built a team long term like you mention the likes of Maxwell, Arnott, Dolan, Griffin, Kirk and many others improved over the years, particularly when we brought in some quality (Russell, Cooper etc) 

I'd be delighted for the club to have a long term progressive plan, that see's us gradually improve each year.    Short term we need more cohesion and a few players with a bit more fight about them. 

Feels a long time since we had the likes of Lasley, Hammell, Craggs of the world who were good enough for us and cared about the club. 

My simple view is we need less journeyman and more Wilsons of this world fighting for us and progressing each year, don't need to all be world beaters.

PS if someone could give us a Cooper or a Russell well that's fine too :). 

 

[wellgirl]

2 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

For me the McLean era highlights what we can do over a sustained period of time. Not easy but this is something we should be looking to replicate and accept we're a long term project.

McLean built a team long term like you mention the likes of Maxwell, Arnott, Dolan, Griffin, Kirk and many others improved over the years, particularly when we brought in some quality (Russell, Cooper etc) 

I'd be delighted for the club to have a long term progressive plan, that see's us gradually improve each year.    Short term we need more cohesion and a few players with a bit more fight about them. 

Feels a long time since we had the likes of Lasley, Hammell, Craggs of the world who were good enough for us and cared about the club. 

My simple view is we need less journeyman and more Wilsons of this world fighting for us and progressing each year, don't need to all be world beaters.

PS if someone could give us a Cooper or a Russell well that's fine too :). 

 

I'm sure there are plenty players who care about the club even when we are shite. Some players seem to be getting a rep of - they don't care. I was in hospitality the day Ross County beat us and Armstrong was asked to come and collect an award on behalf of someone else and he looked completely devastated. This isn't directed at you but I don't believe our players don't care about Motherwell - and that includes players on loan 

[wellsince75]

13 hours ago, wellgirl said:

I'm sure there are plenty players who care about the club even when we are shite. Some players seem to be getting a rep of - they don't care. I was in hospitality the day Ross County beat us and Armstrong was asked to come and collect an award on behalf of someone else and he looked completely devastated. This isn't directed at you but I don't believe our players don't care about Motherwell - and that includes players on loan 

I hear you @wellgirl that’s a valid point re Armstrong and I’m sure other players are similar and care about the club . . 

appreciate I have a bias for guys who have been with us for several years  , eg Craggs , Hammell, Lesley’s of this world .  I’m my mind the longer a player is associated with the club the more deeply they’re likely to care . 

A bit like us, the fans.

what id like to see is more of the steady Jo’s who can be with us for long periods of time . Hence happy for likes of slattery and sod to stay on , same for me if Casey stays .  Also why id like to see young Wilson back in the team and wee Al back with us next season . 

[Onthefringes]

Empathy isn’t the same as caring for the club though.

The winning mentality of a player alters their mood.

 

[wellgirl]

That's Luca Ross signed an extension till 2027

[wellon]

On 4/16/2025 at 3:14 PM, wellgirl said:

That's Luca Ross signed an extension till 2027

Take it the guys on loan still train with club every day?

That would mean manager has seen something in him which is good.

Re the point about Wilson earlier, liked him at first but he needs to improve,  can't just fire him into team because he's young. 

[wellgirl]

10 minutes ago, wellon said:

Take it the guys on loan still train with club every day?

That would mean manager has seen something in him which is good.

Re the point about Wilson earlier, liked him at first but he needs to improve,  can't just fire him into team because he's young. 

Never thought about where he trains tbh, - would make sense I suppose. I don't know about Wilson. I think he had a poor start then improved a lot, he's still young obviously. Just need to see what the next few weeks and pre season brings 

[joewarkfanclub]

8 hours ago, wellon said:

Take it the guys on loan still train with club every day?

That would mean manager has seen something in him which is good.

Re the point about Wilson earlier, liked him at first but he needs to improve,  can't just fire him into team because he's young. 

Annan are only part time, so I presume he trains with us the rest of the week, which is good for him and us. Means he is never out of sight out of mind. Hope he has filled out a bit. I liked what I saw of him in the league cup, but it was clear he was still a boy.

[santheman]

6 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Annan are only part time, so I presume he trains with us the rest of the week, which is good for him and us. Means he is never out of sight out of mind. Hope he has filled out a bit. I liked what I saw of him in the league cup, but it was clear he was still a boy.

All our young boys out on loan are a bit lightweight and in this league lightweights get eaten alive even if they're good technically and have a football brain. Unortunate but that's the way things are going in the SPL, brawn before brain.

[joewarkfanclub]

19 minutes ago, santheman said:

All our young boys out on loan are a bit lightweight and in this league lightweights get eaten alive even if they're good technically and have a football brain. Unortunate but that's the way things are going in the SPL, brawn before brain.

I would have said the same about Lennon Miller when he broke into the first team. But 18 months has seen a big change in that department. He can handle himself just fine now. Hopefully some of our other young talent will do likewise.....

[wellsince75]

Playing in the lower leagues will be a huge learning for the young guns.  They'll quickly learn how to protect themselves and add a bit of strength to their game.

Be great to see a few more break into the first team.  Also enthused to hear a manager who's interested to have a winger, a bit of attack minded football is good for the soul.

[Kmcalpin]

9 hours ago, santheman said:

All our young boys out on loan are a bit lightweight and in this league lightweights get eaten alive even if they're good technically and have a football brain. Unortunate but that's the way things are going in the SPL, brawn before brain.

Its exactly the same in England and in Europe. Just look at the physical change in Faddy when he joined Everton.

[wellsince75]

Appreciate this season has been plagued with injuries so I decided to have a look at who we've signed since 21/22 when Dawes first arrived.  Also did a bit of a comparison to  19/20 (excluded 20/21 due to Covid)

Sine 2021 we've signed 73 players.  18 new signings per season. Roughly 50% have had reasonable game time and that's without debating who's good enough etc. 

Looking back to 2019 we signed fewer 15, of which 10 got game time. 

Thought worth sharing as helps illustrate how we're operating, for a club with financial constrictions we've signed far too many players, many of which haven't seen the light of day. 

[Onthefringes]

See Daws name mentioned regularly and I’d wager nobody knows the role or what club demands of him?

He’s not known to sign players. only being part of a process. Club invest in data analytics, perhaps the use of that analysis is open for debate.

Factor in budget constraints and player demands those who arrive at the club are likely way down the wish list and not recruiters first choice recommendation.

A lot of merit in your closing paragraph.

[wellsince75]

2 hours ago, Onthefringes said:

See Daws name mentioned regularly and I’d wager nobody knows the role or what club demands of him?

He’s not known to sign players. only being part of a process. Club invest in data analytics, perhaps the use of that analysis is open for debate.

Factor in budget constraints and player demands those who arrive at the club are likely way down the wish list and not recruiters first choice recommendation.

A lot of merit in your closing paragraph.

What concerns me isn't about any individual who's recruiting ,  more the general direction we've gotten into. 

Over the last decade we've transitioned from bringing in 7-8 new players and regularly brining in 16-20.  There's a lot less of the younger crew coming through on a regular basis and we're going from full overhaul one season to a next. 

We've always had budget constraints , for me we're being really wasteful and the approach needs to change.

[joewarkfanclub]

15 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

What concerns me isn't about any individual who's recruiting ,  more the general direction we've gotten into. 

Over the last decade we've transitioned from bringing in 7-8 new players and regularly brining in 16-20.  There's a lot less of the younger crew coming through on a regular basis and we're going from full overhaul one season to a next. 

We've always had budget constraints , for me we're being really wasteful and the approach needs to change.

Exactly this.

If we signed half the players, we could afford to pay for a little more quality (maybe less injury prone) and supplement with youth. 

We seem to have lost our way in the transfer market.

[star sail]

We always seemed more successful with recruitment when the manager himself had a list of players he wanted.

Jim Gannon is possibly the most obvious example of this. Baraclough also brought with him a portfolio of players he wanted to sign that included Louis Moult.

I thought MW's interview was very interesting today. He admitted that he does not have the players to play the style he wants. Does he have a list of players that he does want to sign to play his style or does he ask Dawes to find him players with a certain skill set?

I wonder sometimes if the obsession with data analysis comes at the expense of a managers natural feel for the game and for a good player.