Yesterday's Attendance

[Steve Diggle]

The problem is that a Cinema has very low overheads.

 

Paying the ticket sellers - minimum wage.

 

Cost of Cinema (Running costs, rent etc)

 

Paying for the rights to watch the film.

 

 

Nowhere in there is a £500 - £2000 a week salary, the running of a stadium, the up keep of a pitch. Paying for security, police etc.

 

Also films are advertised by multi million pound movie companies. A cinema has no need to advertise. All people need to know is where it is.

 

A cinema and a football club are two totally different things.

 

Yeah - like I say - that's all noted and agreed. they are two totally different things - but they're arguing for 90 mins of our attention at the weekend.

 

but people, when times are tight, don't give a flying hoot about how much a football club cost to run vs a cinema. The cinema and similar then have the advantage.

 

It's now down to the football clubs to get 8000+ people paying 12-15 quid a game as opposed to 4000 paying £20. Like we heard the clubs did in France - take the TV money and reduce admission prices.

 

People are all on 4 day weeks and fearing for their future and are clearly hanging on tightly to their dosh.

 

If on a saturday the cinema proves to better value for the family, or a couple, or a particular individual - then the running costs and loyalty and all those other factors wont come into it - it'll a pure VFM decision.

[Steve Diggle]

I wasn't saying what you were posting was wrong - I was giving you what Aberdeen told us before hand about the possibility of their low attendance.

 

'Flow

 

I know Flow - i was just (admittedly) sarcastically pointing out that you hadn't mentioned it.

 

Sorry

 

I can imagine that the club must be 'trepidatious' about next season - and given we went out on a limb with admission prices and (he diplamatically suggests) didn't get it 100% correct will have frustrated. The failure of the clubs (The SPL) as a group to acknowledge the situation is simply turkeys standing idly about waiting for Christmas.

[weesacs]

if i never had a season ticket, i wouldnt be at ALL the games, i'd be picking and choosing. when my season ticket comes up for renewal, i'll be seriously considering my options.

 

£18 to sit in the east stand is daylight robbery (i dont care its the cheapest in the SPL, its still daylight robbery)

£24 for this saturdays game is atrocious

 

i'd like to see the club doing something now, to inform folk about season tickets and pricing for next year. if we dont make the top six this year, we'll lose out on money we probably expected. we'll get lower away crowds and i can really see some very poor attendances after the split. we will suffer from this, and we wont be the only ones. If Falkirk or Killie go down, i think that would be a disaster financially for them.

 

ALL SPL teams need to sit down and prepare for next season, if all the clubs are going to go it on their own and make no deals with other clubs, i think next season will see dramtic decreases in attendances. The Premiership (the supposed greatest league in the world) is already seeing crowds dropping)

 

football clubs and football players have become so greedy - and its us fans who have to pick up the pieces. Someone mentioned priorities earlier, my mortgage payments, car payments, general house bills and shopping are priorities, anything else is a luxury. IMO football is now an extortionate luxury

[Fal_Dosser]

I get my season each year, but reckon I'd go to all home games if I had to pay at the gate.

 

However, its an easy statement to make as I don't have to pay at the gate - I'm very picky about the away games I go to, as I simply can't afford to shell out every other week for the wee fella and me, so it could well happen for home games if I didn't get\couldn't afford my season ticket.

 

Without doubt, the pricing structure has to be looked at.

 

MON RA DOSSERS

[myteam]

was speaking to a couple of neutrals yesterday & they had been thinking of attending our match but the admission price put them off, sorry to say. footie is way overpriced imo maybe that,s why we so far, have only sold 78 tickets for ibrox(official site info) i have better things to spend there over-inflated charges on, much as mfc are important to me

[brisbaneMFC]

The problem is that a Cinema has very low overheads.

 

 

 

Just not true man, sorry. Know this because the last company I worked for had a division which hoped to sell Digital Projectors to cinemas - basically because the monopoly on actual film reels (yes, they still use analogue film, mostly, except iMax) means that they have great big overheads. Also you've got all the power to keep the place running, heated, wage bill (admittedly not like a fitba team).

 

 

The clubs are pretending to be in the entertainment game, you see it in quotes before/after matches - "promises to be a great afternoon of entertainment" etc. If you are in that game, look around. Folks with kids can do more involved, family activities for less. I could write you a list of them.

 

I personally like going, although a some of the time it is only because it means I get to catch up with pals. I'm not bothered by the actual quality of game (although, obviously a dire game is not good) but the price just doesn't make sense to me, as a paying punter.

 

I see a cabal of clubs saying - this is the gate price this season for home, this it for away. No budging, no listening to the economics of the paying public.

 

 

 

 

£18 for a stand with water pishing through the roof into buckets? H&S about the lads standing up, but the best part of twenty notes to sit in a byre?

[Steve Diggle]

Bottom line is that the multi million dollar film industry can consolodate all their costs etc and deliver a product across the UK for less than a tenner. the multi million dollar football industry can't work together to compete with that - through it's fragmented, baboons fighting for the last banana, greed fuelled structure.

 

We've benefitted in football from several years of relatively healthy economics whereby most of us have disposable income of a weekend and several significant price hikes have meant that attendances have remained stable.

 

Things have just gone over the cliff and the whole landscape has just changed.

[numpty]

The clubs are pretending to be in the entertainment game, you see it in quotes before/after matches - "promises to be a great afternoon of entertainment" etc. If you are in that game, look around. Folks with kids can do more involved, family activities for less. I could write you a list of them.

Of course they can, but then again, that's nothing new... there have always been any number of family activities that are much cheaper than going to the football. That was as true 30 years ago when I started going as it is now.

[Juan Kerse]

The club (and most others) SERIOUSLY need to drop prices next year. Not by a quid or two either. If we drop PATG entry to £15 we will just about survive along the 3500 - 4000 home fans mark. However we need some drastic action here..

 

.. If we drop Season tickets to £150-£199 we could see a drastic rise in Season Ticket holders to safeguard our future. We CAN get 5,000-6,000 inside FP while the rest of the league is dying around us by just dropping prices. Even if the club do a 'Bradford' and offer £199 Season tickets if so many punters put down a £20 deposit - if we exceed that number by say, 500 it goes down to £179, down another 500 and it is £159 etc..

 

We NEED to take action. If the Season tickets come out this pre-season @ £280 - forget it!! £18 on the gate- no chance!! Say hello to sub 4000 crowds next year.

 

£15 on the gate all stands and £25 for the Old Scum. m,ight as well make money off the bastards.

 

Season tickets MAX £199 and get fans back inside FP.

 

Before it is too late..;.

[Dodge]

I wasn't saying what you were posting was wrong - I was giving you what Aberdeen told us before hand about the possibility of their low attendance.

 

'Flow

 

Did anyone in the club think to combat this with reduced admission costs? Given it was one of the biggest games of our season, it would made sense to get bodies in. In the 9 years I've been working with the club I find it astounding that our club fail to recognise that the majority of Aberdeen's visiting support don't come from Aberdeen! Aberdeen are the type of club we should be maximising our attendances against and not the bloody Old Firm fans who'll continue to watch the games on Setanta instead.

[Al B]

Yeah - like I say - that's all noted and agreed. they are two totally different things - but they're arguing for 90 mins of our attention at the weekend.

 

That is the crux of the matter for me. Im not saying football should be £6.50, im saying the imbalance is wrong. I agree they are different things, and I appreciate where Johnstone and Weeyin are coming from, but the fact of the matter for me boils down to two things. How much does it cost, and what am I getting for that. On that basis, football as a live event is quickly fighting a losing battle.

[fatcalf]

When the TV money came in it should have been used to peg prices, instead it went to greedy agents and players. Right that wrong and things may change but that's not just our problem that's for football as a whole to sort.

[mfc]

does anybody know roughly how much the club makes fae season ticket sales and league games against the non old firm teams

[Special aka]

Doesn't stop me attending week in, week out..

 

Sacrifices have to be made, I would do anything to ensure I see the 'Well.

You obviously earn a lot more than me and don't have single track roads and tractors to contend with. You have my respects thou, that's deserving of applause.

[El Grew]

This is an old chestnut. The simple truth is that if you didn't have an intrinsic reason for watching football at FP (i.e. as a born and bred diehard supporter) you wouldn't be near the place. If I didn't support the 'Well then I wouldn't be going to football, period.

 

Despite the tripe spouted by Lex Gold et al, Scottish football is as poor as its ever been. With all too few exceptions most games are utter dross. It is also way over-priced. Is it any wonder gates are so poor. Jeez, its hard to be bothered watching football even when its live on TV. And it will only get worse.

[IanMFC]

You obviously earn a lot more than me and don't have single track roads and tractors to contend with. You have my respects thou, that's deserving of applause.

 

Safe to assume you'll have made the Inverness & Aberdeen away games this year then yeah?

 

Just an obvious assumption to make, considering they are a reasonable distance away, and your on here showing your displeasure at the lack of people at Fir park on a Saturday.

 

Would obviously like to think you do go support the lads when they are up that way.

[Steve Diggle]

This is an old chestnut. The simple truth is that if you didn't have an intrinsic reason for watching football at FP (i.e. as a born and bred diehard supporter) you wouldn't be near the place. If I didn't support the 'Well then I wouldn't be going to football, period.

 

Despite the tripe spouted by Lex Gold et al, Scottish football is as poor as its ever been. With all too few exceptions most games are utter dross. It is also way over-priced. Is it any wonder gates are so poor. Jeez, its hard to be bothered watching football even when its live on TV. And it will only get worse.

 

I think that's a good post Grew

[Malky79]

This is an old chestnut. The simple truth is that if you didn't have an intrinsic reason for watching football at FP (i.e. as a born and bred diehard supporter) you wouldn't be near the place. If I didn't support the 'Well then I wouldn't be going to football, period.

 

Despite the tripe spouted by Lex Gold et al, Scottish football is as poor as its ever been. With all too few exceptions most games are utter dross. It is also way over-priced. Is it any wonder gates are so poor. Jeez, its hard to be bothered watching football even when its live on TV. And it will only get worse.

 

Absolutely agree. Most of us have a fairly blind loyalty but why did people ever start watching the game if it wasn't to be entertainted and also it being affordable.

 

At the moment the entertainment is questionable and the price isn't to great. We are far from the worst team to watch in the league this season but there are precious few games this season that will stay in the memory.

 

Also as for competing entertainment well last I went to the theatre it was still no more than £12/15 for a ticket. Last stand up act I went to see was £15 I think and SPL football definately not worth a penny more than that.

[brisbaneMFC]

I can get more of a laugh for 18 notes. I'm there out of support and the fact is that is milked.

[Kmcalpin]

With all too few exceptions most games are utter dross. It is also way over-priced. Is it any wonder gates are so poor.

 

I agree 100% about pricing Grew. I'd like like to see a ceiling of £10 put on SPL games but thats a pipe dream I guess. What club is going to break rank with their fellow SPL sides, slash entrance money and put itself at a competitive disadvantage. Even junior games at £5 a throw are grossly overpriced in my book. There's many a fan simply can't afford a fiver in this recession.

 

I'm curious about your view that most games are dross though. I've read this a lot lately in many posts. Dross compared to what? Other SPL games; other Scottish games; senior football in general or compared to games in years gone by? I've watched a fair few Well games in my time and last season was some of the best I can recall....ever. Admittedly the games this term at Rugby Park and Falkirk have been absolutely dire, but I can recall some total dross in the 60s, 70s 80s and 90s. In the 1967-68 season I can recall watching us rack up 21 losses out of 34 league games. Now that was dross!

[Ya Bezzer!]

I think describing the matches as "dross" is a bit strong. Sometimes we play well, sometimes not, and sometimes we are mediocre. That's football and I'll bet our games aren't any worse in terms of skill and technical ability than any other club surviving on 4,500 attendances. If pretty easy to spent two or three times as much to watch dross at a much higher level of football.

 

As for the pricing, I think the club have their hands tied behind their backs but the general apathy towards the club by the local community. For various reason many, perhaps most, people in Motherwell don't really care about the club. Motherwell FC are not stockpiling a vast fortune in season ticket sales and gate admissions, they charge what they have to to compete in the league and keep us out of debt.

 

The much maligned Boyle has tried many times by reducing admission to attract new fans and I think its been proved that, really, it makes very little difference except reducing our overall income through reduced admission income (even if the attendance is higher that week).

 

Basically we have to raise a certain amount of money to remain competative. If we don't we would be relegated. Therefore if you are a Motherwell supporter you have to put your hand in your pocket. It's not taking advantage of the fans, its just raising the money we need in order to survive.

 

No point moaning about it. There are 4,000 or so of us and its up to us to put 75% of the yearly budget into the club. Motherwell I think, down the years, have offered good value for money in terms of season ticket and admission costs compared to other clubs.

 

I'd rather pay less just like anyone else but we are The Few unfortunately and we have to take the burden of financing an SPL level club.

[El Grew]

Sorry Kmcalpin I wasn't singling the 'Well out when I said most games are dross. I was speaking generally about Scottish Football in the SPL. I agree that we were bloody good to watch last season and it was one of the best seasons I can remember both in terms of results and the style of our play.

 

I do honestly feel that Scottish football is at at an all time low. We have teams full of players who are undoubtedly very fit and athletic but sadly lacking in craft, guile and skill.

 

The speed at which the modern game is played means that players' first touch is critical whereas in years past this was not the case. Players could get away with not having a great first touch as they and their opponents were not as fit, athletic or quick.

 

We fans are fickle. Do we want to see our team entertain and lose or do we just want to see our team win and to hell with entertainment? We will all have our views. To do both is the ideal but few teams ever manage it. The great Ancell Babes were fantastic to watch and highly entertaining - neutrals came out in droves to see them, but sadly they didn't win anything.

 

Personally, I like to watch entertaining football - to go and see guys doing things that you know you couldn't do yourself. I can remember when guys like Andy Weir, Davie Cooper, Jimmy Johnstone etc. got the ball, you could feel electricity in the air as the crowd suddenly perked-up expectantly, as they knew they were going to see something very special. I can remember seeing Davie Cooper scoring a great solo goal against Dundee Utd at FP and thinking that it was worth the entry money alone just to see that moment of magic.

 

Be honest, if you were young, athletic and fit, you could go out and do what the vast majority of SPL players do and that is truly sad. We have lost our way somewhere because we did previously produce highly skilful players that were sought after and respected throughout the world.

 

Sorry if I've ranted and wandered slightly off topic here but it is something I do feel strongly about. Yes, SPL football is overpriced but I honestly don't think fans would complain as much if what they were seeing was more entertaining with more skill, craft and guile on show. And it might just tempt some more out to see it.

[DEWELL]

Have to say the pitch has played a bit part in gash games at the Ark this season plus as i've stated on other threads we're not playing anywhere near last season's standard. Understandable when you cosider the calibre of players we've lost in Porter. MacCormack and Lappin. The standard in Scotland in general is pants cos even a 'half' decent player can get more money in the English 2nd Div i.e. Foran Southend. Also the day the Old Squrm leave Scottish football will be a day i CELEBRATE.! .

[Special aka]

............ and your on here showing your displeasure at the lack of people at Fir park on a Saturday.

Not displeasure Ian, more surprise really.

 

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone for not attending. Didn't do it when I was a regular and even less reason to do so now. I was surprised however, at what IMHO was a low attendance for what was an important fixture for us.

[Ya Bezzer!]

Football is more like owning a race horse than going to the movies.

 

4,000 of us own the race horse called Motherwell FC and its up to us put our hands in our pockets to find the stable costs or it doesn't run and gets sold off for glue.