Rickoza Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 If we win on Saturday, and Hibs beat Aberdeen on Sunday, we will end up on 51 points - more than both of these teams. There are a lot of pros and cons about the split, but to me, this is the thing which makes it completely and utterly pointless. It's a piece of nonsense that we can have more points than the team finishing fifth (and two places higher than us) in the league! It had some excitement on the final set of games before the split I know, but overall, I think it should be binned and let's get back to a regular season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe_Green Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 If we win on Saturday, and Hibs beat Aberdeen on Sunday, we will end up on 51 points - more than both of these teams. There are a lot of pros and cons about the split, but to me, this is the thing which makes it completely and utterly pointless. It's a piece of nonsense that we can have more points than the team finishing fifth (and two places higher than us) in the league! It had some excitement on the final set of games before the split I know, but overall, I think it should be binned and let's get back to a regular season. What your suggesting involves using common sense, knowing how the SPL operate, that would go against all their principles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickoza Posted May 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 In 2005/2006, Inverness had more points than Hibs, Kilmarnock and Aberdeen with 58, 56, 55 and 54 respectively. I know that they had less-demanding games, it just makes it a farce to have a team scoring more points but unable to climb the table. Final Table: 1.Celtic 38 28 7 3 93-37 91 2.Heart of Midlothian 38 22 8 8 71-31 74 3.Rangers 38 21 10 7 67-37 73 4.Hibernian 38 17 5 16 61-56 56 5.Kilmarnock 38 15 10 13 63-64 55 6.Aberdeen 38 13 15 10 46-40 54 7.Inverness Caled. Th. 38 15 13 10 51-38 58 8.Motherwell 38 13 10 15 55-61 49 9.Dundee United 38 7 12 19 41-66 33 10.Falkirk 38 8 9 21 35-64 33 11.Dunfermline Athletic 38 8 9 21 33-68 33 ---------------------------------------------- 12.Livingston 38 4 6 28 25-79 18 Relegated And you're right. The SPL and common sense are never going to be on the same planet at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I kinda like it. 4 games ago every SPL team had something to play for, which certainly can't be said for the EP. I'd go 1 step further and involve 2nd bottom of SPL in a play-off with 2nd top of 1st Div. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 It's a piece of nonsense that we can have more points than the team finishing fifth (and two places higher than us) in the league! While this doesn't bother me in the slightest, it does seem to confuse a lot of folk who don't know how it works-- if the split is going to happen, I dunno why they don't just properly split things into two groups, rather than pretending everyone is still playing in the same league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu92 Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 The split would only really be scrapped when the league itself is re-structured. Without the split teams in our league would only play 33 games compared to the 38 of the English, Spanish leagues, etc. By splitting the league all that is really done is that each team gets another five games to take them to the 38. Tbh increasing the size of the league is in order, but that's a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamy Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I've never understood the sense of the Split until now. (Ok, I'm from Germany ^^) My quite personal and naive opinion: (naive-mode on) It is insane that a team cannot advance higher in the Table, because of this ominous Split. If Motherwell have more Points as No. 6 oder 5 in the Table, they must be stay on Nr. 7. That´s unfair! (I´m still in naive-mode) I believe, it would be more exciting without Split. (naive-mode off) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1 Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 While this doesn't bother me in the slightest, it does seem to confuse a lot of folk who don't know how it works-- if the split is going to happen, I dunno why they don't just properly split things into two groups, rather than pretending everyone is still playing in the same league. They have two seperate sets of fixtures between the two different sets of clubs, play the finales on different days, and call it "the split" what more would you suggest they do !? Its hardly a major revelation or rocket science that post split the team in 7th playing lesser teams they finished above may well win more points than the team in 6th playing against the best teams that they finished below. You cant compare the two and to be fair to the SPL they dont, it's not their fault that even after about 8 years some people cant get their heads around the word "split" ! Im sure i heard that there was supposed to be a trophy for whoever finished top of the bottom 6 but Aberdeen told them to stick it when they finished 7th in its first year and so the idea was forgotten about , dont know how true that is though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 i don't see the problem with this, it's not difficult to understand at all. nobody is going to moan if burnley get promoted even although sheffield united finished with more points. if people can accept the playoffs they should accpet the split. and it's no use saying have a regular season unless you can suggest a better system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 i don't see the problem with this, it's not difficult to understand at all. I'd agree with that. So we might finish with more points than Hibernian & Aberdeen because we're playing games against the dross of the SPL, rather than sides challenging for the Europa League & the title - what difference does it make!? I don't quite see why it's a farce! Slightly bemusing perhaps to someone who doesn't understand the split, but for Scottish football fans who know the setup I don't understand why it's a problem. I'd rather have a 16 team league without a split, but I don't actually have a problem with the split itself - as Pie said, up until just a few weeks ago everyone was playing for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I think it just makes a mockery of the whole thing when the team that finishes 7th or 8th can finish the season with more points than the team finising 5th or 6th in the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I'd rather have a 16 team league without a split, but I don't actually have a problem with the split itself - as Pie said, up until just a few weeks ago everyone was playing for something. but then you'd either play 30 or 45 or 60 league games. so cross that one off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I think it just makes a mockery of the whole thing when the team that finishes 7th or 8th can finish the season with more points than the team finising 5th or 6th in the table. But as Jay says, that's obvious - we are playing against humpty shite - of course we are going to rack up more points than Hibs, playing the Old Firm etc..!! Expected, not a mockery mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 i don't see the problem with this, it's not difficult to understand at all. nobody is going to moan if burnley get promoted even although sheffield united finished with more points. if people can accept the playoffs they should accpet the split. and it's no use saying have a regular season unless you can suggest a better system. Give the man a cigar. Maybe the papers could help explain this to people by actually printing the top 6 and bottom 6 as separate tables side by side rather than still printing it as one table. Complaining about us having more points than Hibs is like a team going out of Champions League qualifying (let's say Rangers, they have previous) and dropping into the UEFA cup. Then moaning that they won more games in their group than Celtic who were in the Champions League who lost almost all of their games. The top 6 is the Champions League, the bottom 6 is the UEFA cup. We didn't qualify to play with the big boys. People need to get over it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 but then you'd either play 30 or 45 or 60 league games. so cross that one off. I'd go with 30 league games, and perhaps the old style league cup with group stages at the start of the season to increase the game total. But that's something for Henry "I played a few games for East Fife in the 60s so I'm qualified to completely revamp Scottish football" McLeish to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I think it just makes a mockery of the whole thing when the team that finishes 7th or 8th can finish the season with more points than the team finising 5th or 6th in the table. They have two seperate sets of fixtures between the two different sets of clubs, play the finales on different days, and call it "the split" what more would you suggest they do !? Its hardly a major revelation or rocket science that post split the team in 7th playing lesser teams they finished above may well win more points than the team in 6th playing against the best teams that they finished below. You cant compare the two and to be fair to the SPL they dont, it's not their fault that even after about 8 years some people cant get their heads around the word "split" ! it's that simple. i don't think your retarded so your clearly just being stubborn. imo having the correct amount of fixtures and teams for a competitive league is much more important a appeasing a few people who can't handle the fact that the 7th team will probably have more points than the 6th just because they see themself as some kind of traditionalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Or, as I suggest, print two different 6 team league tables to save confusion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 i don't see the problem with this, it's not difficult to understand at all. nobody is going to moan if burnley get promoted even although sheffield united finished with more points.There have been a number of complaints from various teams and their fans about the play-off system. Especially in seasons where there has been large points differences between the participants. I think it's pretty unfair myself and would prefer something like top 2 are promoted automatically and 3rd place places 3rd bottom in the EPL. The league is supposed to be about consistency over a season - if you want knockout competitions, that what the Cups are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I'd go with 30 league games, and perhaps the old style league cup with group stages at the start of the season to increase the game total. But that's something for Henry "I played a few games for East Fife in the 60s so I'm qualified to completely revamp Scottish football" McLeish to think about. your talking about losing eight league fixtures from the calendar and all the income they create. cut games by a fifth and season tickets and tv deals have to come down by a fifth. early league cup games now aren't as attractive as league games and when you consider that a fair few of them might be dead rubbers it's unlikely to make up the shortfall, or be as interesting for the fans. i also don't think it's a good idea to expand beyond 12 teams. it'd create too many meaningless games and i don't think there is enough strong teams, there might be 16 decent clubs but there definitely isn't 19 which is the least you'd need. Or, as I suggest, print two different 6 team league tables to save confusion... if you look at the spl website there is big line through the middle of the table. anyway everybody knows the criteria it's just that some people are too pig headed to accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numpty Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 They have two seperate sets of fixtures between the two different sets of clubs, play the finales on different days, and call it "the split" what more would you suggest they do !? I just told you what I suggest they do Having lived in Ireland and England for the past umpteen years, I've lost count of the number of people I've had to explain it to... mainly because there's nothing in the printed SPL table in most papers that suggests it's anything other than a regular league table, so folk just naturally assume it's a mis-print when 7th has more points than 6th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 if you look at the spl website there is big line through the middle of the table. anyway everybody knows the criteria it's just that some people are too pig headed to accept it. Aye, I know. It's clearly not enough for some people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 There have been a number of complaints from various teams and their fans about the play-off system. Especially in seasons where there has been large points differences between the participants. I think it's pretty unfair myself and would prefer something like top 2 are promoted automatically and 3rd place places 3rd bottom in the EPL. The league is supposed to be about consistency over a season - if you want knockout competitions, that what the Cups are for. i don't disagree, all i'm saying is that you won't see the same people who moan about the split moaning about the playoffs in england or in scotland. mainly because the the playoffs in england were promoted as a good thing by their positive media while up here the likes of traynor, waddell and leckie dominate too many forms of media and love using it to bash the spl, the sfa and anything new that is introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickoza Posted May 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 it's that simple. i don't think your retarded so your clearly just being stubborn. imo having the correct amount of fixtures and teams for a competitive league is much more important a appeasing a few people who can't handle the fact that the 7th team will probably have more points than the 6th just because they see themself as some kind of traditionalists. Not that I can't handle it, of course I can. Like you have your opinion, I have mine. Nothing to do with tradition, it just simply looks plain daft to have a table with a team having more points than those as many as four places above it, that's all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Not that I can't handle it, of course I can. Like you have your opinion, I have mine. Nothing to do with tradition, it just simply looks plain daft to have a table with a team having more points than those as many as four places above it, that's all! That's what myself and Steelboy are saying, Ricky. That's just how it's printed. There's a line printed in the paper between 6th and 7th. For me the papers should split the league table altogether and the SPL could rebrand the split. Call it SPL Championship Battle and SPL Survival Battle. Two separate competitions. Which is effectively what it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickoza Posted May 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 The way it is displayed here is probably the best way I've seen it.... RSSF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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