garymurdoch Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 i disagree. millwall got to the play off final and they were rank. teams like swindon, exter and carlise are piss poor. wolves romped the championship last season but apart from ebanks-blake, keogh and kightly i didn't see much difference between us and them in the friendly we played. there wasn't much of a difference between us and preston either and they made the play offs. imo the 'well team that finished third would be competing around the play offs in the championship and last season probably fighting relegation. Aye but friendlies are nothing really to go on. Everything seems like a bit of a shot in the dark at the moment. I guess we wont find out until a fair few games into the season exactly how gannons signings really are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 i wouldn't say i'm overly worried but i'm a bit anxious. i'm willing to wait right up until the transfer window closes but i feel we definitely need two or three quality signings this window to remain competitive in the league. boyle opened the purse strings for mcghee when he came to the club and i believe he would do the same for gannon so hopefully he won't be shy in asking. if you do the sums the money must be there. the money for porter, mcghee, clarkson, quinn and the european prize money comes to nearly two million pounds. if we had signed any or all of these players last summer i'd have been delighted but right now is a different situation entirely. there's a bit of a feel good factor right now because of the new boss and the europa games but we've still got a long way to go before i'd say we're anywhere near the required standard. How do you know the 3 signings we haven't aren't the 'quality' players we need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm happy to let Gannon run on this. There's a stark reality that a few of us seem to be missing in that. All the money we have made in transfers, sell-on fees and compensation in the last couple of years has been absorbed into the running costs of the club. That will continue for a long long time. JG has a playing budget that he will use as he see's fit - the same as previous managers. McGhee almost got us hung last season for having a very small squad where we had a few big earners, some players who had come up through the ranks and were earning a moderate wage and some young guys. He turned it round to an extent when players came back at the turn of the year - but a longer injury crisis running into February say, could have crippled us. JG seems to me to be more in the McLean mould where the wage scales are flatter - I don't think he'll tolerate a couple of bigger names earning much higher wages - i think it'll be a bunch of guys all of a similar level wage wise. That is a more accepted way of building a team unit. We might have a team that is capable of competing on the park with high hitting Championship teams over 90mins we can't possibly expect us to pick off players that these clubs will be interested in when we have less TV money and 4000 punters coming through the gate (with 4 or 5 less home games as these guys as well) I'm proud to be a fan of Motherwell - what we've achieved consistently over the years and particularly since administration has been astonishing. Long may it continue. We forget our position in the food chain vs what we've actually achieved far too easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well_Jaggy Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Mr Diggle, I know a wee phrase you could have used for that - "Punching above our weight" Steelboy - I can't comment on Exeter or Carlisle, but I have seen Swindon town play a few times now and they are not any worse than us. Granted the last match i saw was the first game of the 2008/09 season against tranmere when they won 3-1. Even with Malpish in charge of that game they looked ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottW1886 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 I have every faith in Gannon's signings, and am very confident that he hasn't underestimated the SPL. During his interview he really surprised the directors with his knowledge of the Motherwell squad - even the Under 19's - and Scottish football in general. He outlined exactly where he felt improvements were needed in the squad. He knows what he is doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammer Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm sure JG wouldn't be bringing these players in if he didn't think they were better than what he has seen over the last few weeks. He's obviously assessed what we have and has brought in the players he thinks can improve on that. Nae worries from me about them being from the lower English leagues, some of the players already at Fir Park should be playing in the lower Scottish divisions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 With the way the last couple of singnings have come about it's good that there's not an English Pie and Bovril - I couldy handle both sides of the cyberspace border hating us Nah i could really! C'mon the 'Well / C'mon the Gannster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Seagull Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Reality is that many clubs in League One and above can simply outspend us many times over - whether on transfer fees, or on wages. Yes, there are a lot of overpaid haddies in the lower leagues in England, but there are also some real gems. Gannon's reputation suggests that he has a knack for unearthing some of these guys, and deserves time to show what he can do. If we are getting them to come up and they produce, no doubt they will move on and hopefully make us some money. With the relatively short-term contracts for Coke and Jennings, I can't see that we have a lot to loose if they do not work out for some reason. I've said a few times that I can't believe how ordinary some ex SPL players look in League One. The likes of Alan MacCormack who I thought was a decent player whilst on loan to us, has IMHO looked like a shadow of his former self since he went to Southend. I realise he is playing a different role at Southend, but frankly looks to be playing well within himself, and enjoying the extra time and space that is on offer in the lower leagues down here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 As said you just have to trust gannon's judgement. It goes the other way too...players like Juninho, Thomas Gravesen, Nono Capucho et al have not cut it in the SPL and these guys are seasoned internationalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 A guy I know is a Northampton supporter. He got back to me this morning on Giles Cokes. I asked him if Giles Cokes was any good. "Underperforming lazy tosser comes to my mind... He was highly regarded when we signed him but we have only seen occasional glimpses of what he can do (quick with both feet, good vision, box to box). Towards the end of last season, when we needed a player like Giles to step up and help us out of trouble, he just didn't want to know. His attitude stank to be honest... Even so, it has come as huge suprise that he has left, i mean the club announced weeks back that he would re-sign and he has played three pre-season games for us. This is slightly entertaining http://users.boardnation.com/~thehotelend/...0;start=0" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 This is slightly entertaining http://users.boardnation.com/~thehotelend/...0;start=0" For such an under-performing, lazy tosser the Northampton fans seem awfully upset that he's left. Anyway, Gannon doesn't come across as the kind of manager who'd tolerate laziness or c***s with attitude problems. I'd rather have a good player who needs a kick up the arse than a shite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammer Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 This is slightly entertaining http://users.boardnation.com/~thehotelend/...0;start=0" Oh well, we seem to have a lazy, good for nothing wanker onboard if you listen to the Northampton fans. Someone even thought he was the donkey of the season! Don't think for a minute they'd be up in arms spouting this pish if he really was that useless. JG obviously sees something in him and with the right coaching in the proper environment must think he can produce the goods for us. EDIT : Looks like Jay has a similar take on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 How do you know the 3 signings we haven't aren't the 'quality' players we need? i don't but to be fair for all anyone else knows they could be molloy, keegan and grabban reincarnate. looking at what we know jennings looks promising and should do a good job for us, the other two were inconsistent performers in poor teams and as attackers only scored 2 goals each in 50 game seasons for their respective clubs at a lower level than the spl. when we signed mccormack, porter, hughes or lappin you could look at what they had done in their time and be fairly certain they'd do a good job for us, with these guys particulary coke and humphrey it's more of a shot in the dark. all i'm saying is that i think we need a couple of solid, unlikely to fail signings (ideally strikers) before the window shuts. JG seems to me to be more in the McLean mould where the wage scales are flatter - I don't think he'll tolerate a couple of bigger names earning much higher wages it's not difficult to tolerate a 15 goal a season striker. even if we count the porter money as covering the pitch costs there should still be enough extra income from mcghee, quinn, clarky, the europa prize money and freed up wages to spend a bit of money on a couple of quality players. you also need to consider that scrimping now can cost more in the long term - a shite season or relegation would have a bad effect on our turnover in many different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 i don't but to be fair for all anyone else knows they could be molloy, keegan and grabban reincarnate. looking at what we know jennings looks promising and should do a good job for us, the other two were inconsistent performers in poor teams and as attackers only scored 2 goals each in 50 game seasons for their respective clubs at a lower level than the spl. when we signed mccormack, porter, hughes or lappin you could look at what they had done in their time and be fairly certain they'd do a good job for us, with these guys particulary coke and humphrey it's more of a shot in the dark. all i'm saying is that i think we need a couple of solid, unlikely to fail signings (ideally strikers) before the window shuts. I'm sorry but Hughes wasn't even geting a game for Leicester , Lappin wasn't getting a game for Norwich nor McCormack for Rangers so IMO they were all gambles apart from Porter. And the 'why are we signing players from League 1 and 2' brigade would probably think even Porter was a gamble. Another decent player signed form a lower level than us........Stuart Elliot. Motherwell have to gamble on players and it is always gonna be that way. We can't afford seasoned 'quality' pros. If they are that good they won't want to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm sorry but Hughes wasn't even geting a game for Leicester , Lappin wasn't getting a game for Norwich nor McCormack for Rangers so IMO they were all gambles apart from Porter. And the 'why are we signing players from League 1 and 2' brigade would probably think even Porter was a gamble. Another decent player signed form a lower level than us........Stuart Elliot. Motherwell have to gamble on players and it is always gonna be that way. We can't afford seasoned 'quality' pros. If they are that good they won't want to come. porter was one of the top strikers in league one when he came and had championship and spl teams interested in him, it was clear he was an excellent signing. hughes had been a regular for rangers and had european experience, mccormack was excellent for donny rovers on loan and a lot of rangers fans were disapointed to see him go and lappin had previously been a stand out in the spl. they were all as close to sure things as we're going to get. we do need to gambl on players and the getting the likes of elliot and mcdonald in was great business. right now however we're in almost unchartered territory in terms of squad strength and we're going to have to push the boat out a bit to even get back to the level of last season. the only time in my experience of following the 'well we've had a squad so thin we ended up finishing bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 porter was one of the top strikers in league one when he came and had championship and spl teams interested in him, it was clear he was an excellent signing. hughes had been a regular for rangers and had european experience, mccormack was excellent for donny rovers on loan and a lot of rangers fans were disapointed to see him go and lappin had previously been a stand out in the spl. they were all as close to sure things as we're going to get. we do need to gambl on players and the getting the likes of elliot and mcdonald in was great business. right now however we're in almost unchartered territory in terms of squad strength and we're going to have to push the boat out a bit to even get back to the level of last season. the only time in my experience of following the 'well we've had a squad so thin we ended up finishing bottom. If Hughes was a 'regular' at Rangers he wouldn't have moved to Leicester. McLeish didn't rate him and thats why he left. The same goes for McCormack. And with Lappin you have proved my point - done well in the SPL and not so well down south. League 1 isn't neccessarily a lower level than the SPL. As for Porter I'm not really sure why your bringing up him again because if you read my post I agree with you on that one. This is the market we have to work with. I don't suppose you have players in mind as alternatives to the 3 we have signed.......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 any player that has player 60 odd games for rangers and 100 for leicester is likely to do us a turn. and you've proved my point about lappin, he had done it at our level and got a good move, we knew he would be a good spl player. talking about league one as a single entity is a bit daft as well, there are 24 teams in the league and there's a huge difference between the teams at the top than the bottom. i'm not saying that these signings won't work out well, i really hope they do. i'm just saying we'll be taking a big risk if we go into the season with the players we currently have and a few more along the lines of coke who are young and taking a step up. i don't think it's unreasonable to expect that we replace the seven experienced players we've lost with two or three more established signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 any player that has player 60 odd games for rangers and 100 for leicester is likely to do us a turn. and you've proved my point about lappin, he had done it at our level and got a good move, we knew he would be a good spl player. talking about league one as a single entity is a bit daft as well, there are 24 teams in the league and there's a huge difference between the teams at the top than the bottom.i'm not saying that these signings won't work out well, i really hope they do. i'm just saying we'll be taking a big risk if we go into the season with the players we currently have and a few more along the lines of coke who are young and taking a step up. i don't think it's unreasonable to expect that we replace the seven experienced players we've lost with two or three more established signings. Exactly, thats why it gets on my tits when people are coming on and moaning about signing players from said league and not only moaning but can't even think of one single alternative. The problem is we can't afford established anymore so the best thing we can do is put our trust in the management team and the players that he is bringing in. And back to Hughes alot of those games were probably as subs (apologies if that stat you have provided is starting appearances) and at the end of the day they got rid of him so it shows what they thought of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hughes had 4 times more appearances for Leicester than O'Donnell did for Sheffield Wednesday (who were happy to offload him when they were relegated to Division 2). So by those standards, Hughes is better than Uncle Phil. Which just goes to show how useless statistics are in comparing players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Exactly, thats why it gets on my tits when people are coming on and moaning about signing players from said league and not only moaning but can't even think of one single alternative. aye people are moaning because we're signing players from the arse end of league one and league two. players who most people haven't seen and that stats and reviews don't suggest were particular standouts. i'll say it again, we lost seven experienced players, it would be madness not to try and bring in a few similar guys to replace them. and it's not up to people on here to come up with targets either. it's not like i've got a scouting system or a load of agents in my phone book who i can put the word out to about what we need. that's how gannon (and his staff) earn their money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsa Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 i'm not saying that these signings won't work out well, i really hope they do. i'm just saying we'll be taking a big risk if we go into the season with the players we currently have and a few more along the lines of coke who are young and taking a step up. i don't think it's unreasonable to expect that we replace the seven experienced players we've lost with two or three more established signings. Have to agree with this. Much as I am delighted at the transfer market activity, would feel much more positive about the forthcoming season with a couple of experienced players who we pretty much know will do a good job for us. Last time we brought in a huge influx of players Mr Kampmann was in charge and some of them were pish. Not that I think the 3 we have signed so far will be. We just don't know what we've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizoxy Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Not trying to be smart here, but is anyone willing to put some names forward of experienced players that we could look at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hughes had 4 times more appearances for Leicester than O'Donnell did for Sheffield Wednesday (who were happy to offload him when they were relegated to Division 2). So by those standards, Hughes is better than Uncle Phil. Which just goes to show how useless statistics are in comparing players But Phil was injured for most iof his time at Wednesday he played when he was fit. They even gave him a new contract even though he hardly played in his first 2 year. BTW my best mate at Uni was a Wednesday fan and as a protest in one of the seasons they voted uncle phil the fans' player of the year even though he played once True story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 aye people are moaning because we're signing players from the arse end of league one and league two. players who most people haven't seen and that stats and reviews don't suggest were particular standouts. i'll say it again, we lost seven experienced players, it would be madness not to try and bring in a few similar guys to replace them. and it's not up to people on here to come up with targets either. it's not like i've got a scouting system or a load of agents in my phone book who i can put the word out to about what we need. that's how gannon (and his staff) earn their money. And thats what they are doing. People should be a bit more trusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Dundee Utd signed Morgaro Gomis from COWDENBEATH and he has become one of the best midfielders in Scotland. Its about the player,not the club he played for! All 3 of these guys are described as very talented,and among the most promising players outside the Top divisions in England so its not JUST any Northampton/Shrews player,its their best players. Plus Gannon knows and has tracked these guys before,he also is the kinda guy who will be up to speed on the SPL as he seems like the bookworm/analytical kind of person. We dont know a lot about them and what Gannons ideas of SPL starting line up is so till then we are just gonna have to sit tight and see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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