orange county dosser Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 I have read quite a few of the "Casual" books , Top boys , Hooligans etc etc and to me it is about someone else's memoirs of football in the 80's, which includes violence, music ,clothes etc some of them "glamourise" (if you can call it that ) the violence, but if like me , you were going to the games during the 80's and early 90's, then you saw it all around you anyway, so whats the big deal ? plenty of books on Hitler out there , they sell well, so do football "casual" books . anyway I've not read this one myself, so will be on the lookout on ebay as well. was this the first book M J ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geedub Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Anyone that talks shit about the book without reading it can fuck off. I took it to Ibiza with me last year and I thought it was excellent. A lot of my friends who are Rangers and Celtic fans read it and thought it was excellent too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 was this the first book M J ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellLee Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Does anyone mind that I don't care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Does anyone mind that I don't care? I don't mind, no. Though you cared enough to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Think what many of you under 30's don't realise is that in the 70's and 80's travelling to away games was a dangerous activity. Whether you went looking for it or not, opposing fans clashed in streets, pubs and grounds all thru the divisions. Some of the worst football violence I witnessed was when following Motherwell in the 1st Div at the turn of the 80's. Trips to Raith, QoS, Dundee, Berwick, Ayr, (especially Ayr), tended to involve some sort of violence. Motherwell was/is a tough town and had several bus loads of young men prepared to swing their fists if needs be to watch their team. I am not condoing it for one minute, but I won't deny it happened (virtually every week) and just sort of went hand-in-hand with being a scarf wearing football fan in the 15-30 age bracket at that time................ 30 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange county dosser Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Think what many of you under 30's don't realise is that in the 70's and 80's travelling to away games was a dangerous activity. Whether you went looking for it or not, opposing fans clashed in streets, pubs and grounds all thru the divisions. Some of the worst football violence I witnessed was when following Motherwell in the 1st Div at the turn of the 80's. Trips to Raith, QoS, Dundee, Berwick, Ayr, (especially Ayr), tended to involve some sort of violence. Motherwell was/is a tough town and had several bus loads of young men prepared to swing their fists if needs be to watch their team. I am not condoing it for one minute, but I won't deny it happened (virtually every week) and just sort of went hand-in-hand with being a scarf wearing football fan in the 15-30 age bracket at that time................ 30 years ago you feelin old Big man ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special aka Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 you feelin old Big man ?? 50 in 23 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trafficlight Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 You make a valid point big guy, it was all too common in that era, though personally I don't know why you put yourselves through it. Anyway, I can't imagine anyone picking a fight with a guy your size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange county dosser Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 50 in 23 months am catching up 40 in a couple of years ! started goin to Fir Park about '83-'84 with my pal and his older brother, shat ma pants a good few times over the next few years let me tell you !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east stand loyal Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Did you get the book mate? I bought it yeaaars ago out of Unique... all very hush hush, had to go in and give it "Erm I'm looking to buy a book" wink wink Good read, does'nt particularly "romanticise" the violence aspect of it. By all means its an honest account of what being a hardcore Motherwell fan meant in those days. Gave a loan of it to a mate from work who promptly fucked off n I've never seen him since! Would like to get my hands on it again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 You make a valid point big guy, it was all too common in that era, though personally I don't know why you put yourselves through it. Anyway, I can't imagine anyone picking a fight with a guy your size Sometimes you weren't given a choice in the matter. One good thing came out of the Casual scene and that was, for the most part, the random attacks on innocent fans stopped as those who fancied a tear up were easily identifiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I think what you all say about the casual movement in the 70s and 80s is genuinely all well and good, but sadly the romanticised tales of yore from older guys like yourselves has given justification to young thugs to cause bother under an 'acceptable' cause. Same sort of mindset as Old Firm yobs fighting and justifying it with the Republican/Loyalist shite. Being a 'Well fan who has only been going to away games in the 90s and 00s, the vast majority of violence around the 'SS' has been Motherwell thugs wanting a scrap with people who don't. Nancy is the most recent example, but there's plenty more. In that respect it's a shame for the guys who started the SS, and even the folk who continue it now, who do subscribe to the mindset laid out in MJs book, as there is a plethora of neds who cause bother under their title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trafficlight Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Sometimes you weren't given a choice in the matter. One good thing came out of the Casual scene and that was, for the most part, the random attacks on innocent fans stopped as those who fancied a tear up were easily identifiable. I'm sure there were many occasions when people were attacked and had no choice but to defend themselves. I was referring to putting yourselves through the matchday experience , mate. My dad stopped going to away games down here in the 70s because the violence had gotten to such a scale that all enjoyment of going to the match had been taken away. He was worried he was going to see somebody killed, and that isn't why you go to the football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Being a 'Well fan who has only been going to away games in the 90s and 00s, the vast majority of violence around the 'SS' has been Motherwell thugs wanting a scrap with people who don't. Nancy is the most recent example, but there's plenty more. . A bold claim? Would like to see/hear evidence of that. The SS has a few tits that associate themselves with it granted, same as the general Well support. Btw have the SS attacked any OAP's in the ground recently? Like minded meet Like minded 99.99% of the time and have a tear up, which by the way are few and far between nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisbaneMFC Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Every close season, someone asks about the book and the same conversation ensues. That said, my view on that scene is this - these days it looks like an expensive and legally difficult means of getting a fight. Plenty boxing/kickboxing/martial arts clubs on the go where you can get a decent bit sparring in and not wind up knicked or walking about in overpriced Clone Island clobber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_mfc Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 the vast majority of violence around the 'SS' has been Motherwell thugs wanting a scrap with people who don't. Thats a pretty bold comment considering there are plenty other mobs around who take liberties at any oppertunity they cant get. Dont think its right to just single out the SS as a bunch of thugs who attack people who dont want to scrap. As Burn_Broomfield says it very rarely happens these days and when it does it is mainly with people who are involved and who are looking for a scrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I don't think I did single out the SS, to be fair. I mentioned them because the thread is about them. I really don't have a problem with casuals. If folk want to fight with each other, that's fine by me, but the majority of incidents I've seen in or around football grounds involving people wearing no colours, to my mind, have been wee neds hanging on the coat-tails of what was a respected and feared firm. I don't for a second think that any of the original or 'real' SS boys would wander about attacking randoms, but sometimes idiots will do, and their name gets dragged through the mud as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisbaneMFC Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 hanging on the coat-tails of what was a respected and feared firm All I'm wondering is if anyone actually wears coat-tails these days? Sounds a wee bit like Raffles, the Gentleman Thug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEW_ERA Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Motherwell align themselves to the general casual scene in Scotland at the moment, which is pretty much dead. The odd game however will crop up that appeals, however with the police attention (photographed/video'd etc) it just makes it more hassle than its worth for them. Im not going to insult anyones intelligence by claiming that their angels, but I can honestly say I have never seen or heard of any instances where innocents have been attacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 The Saturday Service was a way of life back then for some kids, not much to look forward to during the week and gaining a buzz at the weekend, it was all the rage then and having been there myself was some of the best days I have experienced, all guys taking the mick out of each other but when it came down to it all standing together facing the opposition fans, I think we done ok and the author of the book explains that in detail. Times move on people pass on and today is a time to think back and think about old mates and old players alike. We stand together team and fans. Times have moved on and there are a few idiots out there but they are far outnumbered by players fans and casuals alike who have Motherwell at heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm sure there were many occasions when people were attacked and had no choice but to defend themselves. I was referring to putting yourselves through the matchday experience , mate. My dad stopped going to away games down here in the 70s because the violence had gotten to such a scale that all enjoyment of going to the match had been taken away. He was worried he was going to see somebody killed, and that isn't why you go to the football. Exactly mate, we put ourselves through it cos that was what we did, the violence wasn't as extreme as that but late 70s/early 80s it was hard to avoid and the threat of random violence was always there. That randomness disappeared and those who wanted to fight deliberately sought out their counterparts making it a whole lot safer for ordinary fans. No-one can deny that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop84 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Been lookin at the 'old pics of FP' thread & thought this may also jog a few memories! If not, then at least a snapshot of youth culture in the late 80's (88 i think). Without any socio / politcal debate, this is what the book is about. SS & Tufty Club return from Hamilton vs Hibs after the ob turned back two coaches headed for Aberdeen that morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskool Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Been lookin at the 'old pics of FP' thread & thought this may also jog a few memories! If not, then at least a snapshot of youth culture in the late 80's (88 i think). Without any socio / politcal debate, this is what the book is about. SS & Tufty Club return from Hamilton vs Hibs after the ob turned back two coaches headed for Aberdeen that morning. great day that police chucked us aff bus went fur a carry oot and decided to walk doon to hamilton.celtic buses going by strathy windows put in fighting aw over the motorway got to hamilton straight in there end should have seen there faces. few scuffles on way back to town centre thenthe timbuses came back again round 2 fucking great day there was hundreds of these days back then great days trendSetterS dreSS to impreSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 and straight out the windae goes the argument that it was only like minded individuals that got into these scuffles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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