Rickoza Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 We are still feeling the effects of administration. I am a shareholder and I got a letter from KPMG a couple of months ago with an update. It said that we had won the court case against John Spencer, but any money received would go into the administration pot to go to the creditors from that time. It also said that we had recently received another payment from the sale of Faddy (around £110k) and that money also goes into the admin pot, although it will be held back from the creditors to help pay the legal costs of the Spencer case. It seems that any debts from the periods before and during administration still stand, but can only be repaid using money outstanding from deals that were in that timeframe. If we won the case against Spencer, why do we have to pay legal costs? I alwys thought if you won a case then costs are awarded against the side which loses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 The allocation of costs is up to the judge, but it's often the case that even if you win you are liable for part (or even all) of the costs. I have read of a number of cases where the successful party ends up in debt because of the legal fees incurred in winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 If we won the case against Spencer, why do we have to pay legal costs? I alwys thought if you won a case then costs are awarded against the side which loses? we might have won the case but there's a fair chance spencer still won't pay us at all or at least try and delay especially since he lives in america now. i would imagine we would pay our lawyers now and then try and retrieve that money from spencer along with the awarded money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 The allocation of costs is up to the judge, but it's often the case that even if you win you are liable for part (or even all) of the costs. I have read of a number of cases where the successful party ends up in debt because of the legal fees incurred in winning. Not often. Although in Scottish Law a lot of things that cost money (Reports, Court Dues etc.) cannot be charged as there are two forms of charges in Scottish Litigation. Agent/Client and Party/Party. Everything that is chargeable in Party/Party is also charged at Agent/Client, although the Client doesn't see these charges as the other party pays for them. Unfortunately not everything that is Agent/Client is chargeable in Party/Party account. Of course, there is also no expenses due to or by either Party, which means each side bear their own costs... which I doubt MFC/Boyle would have accepted. It is very unusual to end in debt if you are the Pursuer and win your case unless your solicitor fucked up a couple of times during the proceedings (missed deadlines, extra unnecessary Motions etc.) We could, like Steelboy says pay the Solicitor now (Harper McLeod I believe *spit*) and reveive the money back once the Party/Party Account is paid up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Not often. Although in Scottish Law a lot of things that cost money (Reports, Court Dues etc.) cannot be charged as there are two forms of charges in Scottish Litigation. Agent/Client and Party/Party. Everything that is chargeable in Party/Party is also charged at Agent/Client, although the Client doesn't see these charges as the other party pays for them. Unfortunately not everything that is Agent/Client is chargeable in Party/Party account. Of course, there is also no expenses due to or by either Party, which means each side bear their own costs... which I doubt MFC/Boyle would have accepted. It is very unusual to end in debt if you are the Pursuer and win your case unless your solicitor fucked up a couple of times during the proceedings (missed deadlines, extra unnecessary Motions etc.) That was a long way of saying I was right I thought I had read that JB had assumed the debt (and pursuance of it) from the club and any monies reclaimed would go to him. I guess that wasn't true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 unrelated. but the after the boot in the baws for justice that was the gerrard verdict it was followed by a poke in the eye annoucing that his costs would be paid from central funds. what a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Bones Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 unrelated. but the after the boot in the baws for justice that was the gerrard verdict it was followed by a poke in the eye annoucing that his costs would be paid from central funds. what a joke. Lost a lot of respect for Gerrard after that. I mean,Phil Collins FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Pat Nevin and Harry Campmann. Jeeso just thinking about these 2 numpties has me in a cold sweat. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeboy Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Administration was always going to come for us to be honest. The fact we gave Spenny and Goram 10k a week was ridiculous, not only should a club our size not be paying such fees, for me neither of them came close to meriting that wage. In the year 2000, we had to get rid of Goram, McMillan, Brannan, Spencer, McCulloch and Goodman, who were a fair proportion of what had made us challenge for third spot in 99-00. You'd think this would be a wake up call for us to tighten up financially, but this was followed by Billy Davies splashing out huge wages on terrible players like Andy Dow, Eddie Forrest, Karl Ready and Stephen Cosgrove. None of which made any contribution to the side whatsoever. To add to this once Davies had gone, Eric Black decided to splash out on many French nobodies (Franck Benhard anyone?), so our wage budget must've been sky high. I think it speaks volumes for how big our squad was and how it was loitered with many useless players, that after the nineteen players were released, we managed to field a fairly strong starting eleven in the closing two games. There is a huge difference between now and then, as these days if you took nineteen players out of any side in Scotland they wouldn't be worthwhile turning up. The following season was a rollercoaster also. The Scottish Cup run was amazing, seeing the likes of McFadden and Pearson flourish was also amazing, but if I remember correctly we went through two seperate spells of taking 1 point from 33? The little money Butcher had that season wasn't spent very wisely as of all the players he signed only Partridge and Craig at a push had any lasting effect. However the next season, with the sale of McFadden, things were looking up financially, and Butcher managed to pull us out of a hole with a few masterstroke signings such as Craigan, Marshall and McDonald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC_MKI Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Administration was always going to come for us to be honest. The fact we gave Spenny and Goram 10k a week was ridiculous, not only should a club our size not be paying such fees, for me neither of them came close to meriting that wage. In the year 2000, we had to get rid of Goram, McMillan, Brannan, Spencer, McCulloch and Goodman, who were a fair proportion of what had made us challenge for third spot in 99-00. You'd think this would be a wake up call for us to tighten up financially, but this was followed by Billy Davies splashing out huge wages on terrible players like Andy Dow, Eddie Forrest, Karl Ready and Stephen Cosgrove. None of which made any contribution to the side whatsoever. To add to this once Davies had gone, Eric Black decided to splash out on many French nobodies (Franck Benhard anyone?), so our wage budget must've been sky high. I think it speaks volumes for how big our squad was and how it was loitered with many useless players, that after the nineteen players were released, we managed to field a fairly strong starting eleven in the closing two games. There is a huge difference between now and then, as these days if you took nineteen players out of any side in Scotland they wouldn't be worthwhile turning up. The following season was a rollercoaster also. The Scottish Cup run was amazing, seeing the likes of McFadden and Pearson flourish was also amazing, but if I remember correctly we went through two seperate spells of taking 1 point from 33? The little money Butcher had that season wasn't spent very wisely as of all the players he signed only Partridge and Craig at a push had any lasting effect. However the next season, with the sale of McFadden, things were looking up financially, and Butcher managed to pull us out of a hole with a few masterstroke signings such as Craigan, Marshall and McDonald. Don't forget, aswell as paying out ridiculous salaries to money grabbing mercenaries like Spencer & Goram etc. we also knocked back a bid of £1M from Hearts for Lee McCulloch toward the end of 1999. At the time we were delighted that we had knocked back such a large bid, but in reality when you combine that with what we were paying out, then it was always going to come to a head at some point. The way I always saw it was that John Boyle was extremely reckless in his early days at the club. I admire his ambition, but he wasn't being realistic as there was no way that we could attract the support that he wanted to, even when he slashed the gate prices for the whole of 98/99, given the amount of potential fans that we lose to Celtic & Rangers. Likewise with paying out the wages we did to players who either were only here for the money(Spencer & Goram) or who weren't good enough to justify the money that they were earning(McMillan, McCulloch, Goodman etc). However, Boyle has clearly learned from his mistakes and has to be commended for, a) writing off the debt, and b) making sure that we stayed on a sure footing financially. Like him or not, we are in a more secure financial state than we were when he first arrived at the club back in 1998. It was a hard time for the club and I firmly believe that had we been relegated in 2003 then we would have found it very difficult to come back from it, especially to get back into the top flight, but we got a break and we took it. We didn't cheat, it wasn't our fault that Falkirk's stadium didn't fit the criteria, it was simply a large slice of luck which we were able to benefit from, and thank God we did. The 02/03 season was, as has been said, one of the most exciting seasons we've had in the last twenty odd years, as it was so good to see youngsters like Faddy, Pearson & Clarkson all breaking into the side and giving it their all, and as a result we got some wonderful days that season, like beating Celtic & Rangers(and don't forget, this was the last Motherwell team to actually do this to this date), thumping Hearts 6-1 and of course that magnificent Scottish Cup run where at one point it really looked like we could be on course to go all the way. It was also a season when I think the support as a whole and the club was closer together than ever before and it really did show that the Motherwell supporters will do their bit for the club when needed and answered the club's calls with the "Well Worth Saving" campaign. We are still feeling the effects of this period in the club's history, which is why we don't pay out wages that are, never mind 'big' but in some cases, alot smaller than other clubs in the SPL pay out, and yet despite this, we have only had one season since 2003 where we have actually been seriously threatened by relegation, which I think says a lot. When you add in that we have also reached a major final and two semis aswell as qualify for European football twice, then it really is something. Supporting Motherwell FC frustrates the hell out of me a lot of the time because of on and off the park issues, but I never want to see us going through what we did back in 2002 when the future of the club was in doubt, as the thought of the club not being there was horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 we also knocked back a bid of £1M from Hearts for Lee McCulloch toward the end of 1999. No we didn't, we knocked back a derisory offer from Hearts which involved a series of clauses including appearances, goals, international call ups and would have netted us in the region of £300K from a club who still hadn't paid Dundee their promised instalments from transfers prevouisly. Jim Jeffries meedja pals made up the figure to make him look good, Wigan's money was straight in our account and was double what Hearts offered on the never never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeboy Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 What I hated most about the break up of the team of 2000 was, after he sold all those big players he came right out and bought James Okoli and Said Chiba, both of great pedigree, neither could kick their own arse. If Okoli hadn't been sent off on one of his first games, and Fat Boab hadn't stood on Said Chiba, I doubt they would be remembered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Bones Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 The season post administration was one of my favourite,despite the league placing. As MJC mentioned we fans were almost universally excellent that season. The home wins against Celtic,Rangers and Hearts were incredible. The cup run was brilliant too. Kilmarnock away with Clarkson winning a penalty that James stuck away in front of the 'Welll fans; McFadden's taking Clyde to the cleaners at a freezing Broadwood; 4-0 at Stanraer,being able to stand and the performance against the h**s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 The season post administration was one of my favourite,despite the league placing. As MJC mentioned we fans were almost universally excellent that season. The home wins against Celtic,Rangers and Hearts were incredible. The cup run was brilliant too. Kilmarnock away with Clarkson winning a penalty that James stuck away in front of the 'Welll fans; McFadden's taking Clyde to the cleaners at a freezing Broadwood; 4-0 at Stanraer,being able to stand and the performance against the h**s. I still dream about Faddy's goal in that game to make it 2-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I still dream about Faddy's goal in that game to make it 2-1. And still have nightmares at Clarky fluffing the chance to make it 3-1 before the break? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 And still have nightmares at Clarky fluffing the chance to make it 3-1 before the break? I was trying to forget about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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