MFCGMFC Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 With £12k in the bank, I'm sure there is something they can do! they could buy us a couple of those heat lamps for the pitch lol!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DosserJoe Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 If I can, I'll be going along. Death Knel for me I'm afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I'll say again that the folk that I know on the Trust Board have given their all. Whether or not the Trust "relaunches" with any of the old faces is not up to them....its up to others, currently on the sidelines, to take up the baton. I'm quite certain many if not all of the current Board would welcome others on board to relaunch. You can't blame the current board for carrying on if no-one else steps up to ring. 'Given their all' fuck all kmcalpin. I was with you up to a point on this thread mate - but that's just pish. You dont canvas for new members, get new members then FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE their joining, their payment. I'm no having their 'giving their all' pish. Very little effort required in sending out a 'bear with us mail' Maybe in the past they've worked hard. But right now - and for at least 6 months no-one has done diddly squat. Sounds like too much focus on the internal and taking their eye off the external. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 yer absolutely right Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 My old man paid his tenner not too long ago and received nothing, not even a receipt, not a dickie fucking bird. Shocking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Before I post anything here, i'll admit that i'm more of a reader than a poster on here, but I have been keeping up with this thread with interest. I think the question really has to be the commitment levels of the people currently running the trust. If they aren't as interested in running it, then maybe it's time to clear out and bring in some new faces altogether? A question i'd like to pose to some of the forum members who are more "in the know" than I am is what can & should be done to get the trust back on track? Let's say, for talkings sake, that the current board completely clear out, and an entirely new lot of faces were brought in. What would you do, or like to see done, to improve things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Seagull Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Before I post anything here, i'll admit that i'm more of a reader than a poster on here, but I have been keeping up with this thread with interest. I think the question really has to be the commitment levels of the people currently running the trust. If they aren't as interested in running it, then maybe it's time to clear out and bring in some new faces altogether? A question i'd like to pose to some of the forum members who are more "in the know" than I am is what can & should be done to get the trust back on track? Let's say, for talkings sake, that the current board completely clear out, and an entirely new lot of faces were brought in. What would you do, or like to see done, to improve things? Before going off on one, I want to make it clear that I was a member of the MST, but let my membership lapse when I felt that key objectives were either unrealistic, or simply at odds to what I felt best. Having tried to voice concerns on more than one occasion I was simply ignored and not even given the courtesy of a reply. I believe a Trust should be a good thing for Motherwell (and this is important), and remain broadly supportive of the idea, though critical of the application. As I see it, the problem is that a fair proportion of the support either could not care less about the Trust, or worse. It would take the most enormous re-branding exercise of Branson-esque proportions (new personnel, new objectives etc) to engender interest in a revised Trust. I understand how the Trust can keep going (in essence by amending rules etc), but given its relative insignificance in the eyes of the fans (and please, am not referring to past glories, what has it actually done this season, or will it actually achieve in the next 12 months?) it is honestly beyond me why it should continue. Lets not forget that new blood has already come and gone from the Board of the Trust - and sometimes at alarming speed. I have a couple of larger questions however: 1. Does anyone actually believe there is a need for the MST in its current incarnation (lets not get personal - yes, or no)? 2. Would a new organisation to replace the MST (new objectives, membership etc) be supported (or has the old MST disillusioned everyone as to the effectiveness of such bodies)? 3. If a replacement body was formed with largely the same objectives - would you actually get involved (no ifs, buts or mibbies - yes or no)? If the Trust is merely to become a fundraising organisation I believe that other supporters groups (such as these boards) have already displayed generosity and willingness to support the club. If the Trust genuinely has aspirations of being a mouthpiece for the fans however, it needs to be able to demonstrate that it has the membership, or at the very least the goodwill of non members in order to do this. Currently, neither is the case, nor does that look like being rectified anytime soon. I am aware that many involved with MST have worked hard, given their time etc, but sometimes enough is enough, and its time to recognise that hard work can sometimes not be enough. It worries me to an extent that by continuing the trust, those involved may actually be harming the prospects of any new or revised organisation that could follow. I'll shut up now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 At some point we'll have to redevelop Fir Park or fund 'Ravenscraig'. Work could already be getting underway in generating funds. Developing ideas on how each of thos could look. Running repairs at the ark. Equipment for the ground staff. Admission Prices. Attendance improvement initiatives (possibly involving the other SPL clubs) A safe standing area. . . . . . . etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 aye, sounds like a complete re-start from the ground up is what's required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Well, go on then! Typing all the good intentions of the world in here won't lay a single brick. A well-supported Motherwell fans fundraising movement, beginning now, could probably pay for a stand by the time we get to Ravenscraig! But I'm not holding my breath... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 a lot of people that are discussing it Frazzle might be very keen on joining any new organisation, but may not have the skills, experience or time required to head one of these things up, but at the same time don't want to waste money and time by joining a dinosaur collective... ever thought of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Well, go on then! Typing all the good intentions of the world in here won't lay a single brick. A well-supported Motherwell fans fundraising movement, beginning now, could probably pay for a stand by the time we get to Ravenscraig! But I'm not holding my breath... I agree Frazzle. Most people are contributors not leaders though. I don't have the time or the energy anymore to take a large time consuming role. That's a statement of fact and is just where my life is at the moment. However, like we've discussed many times in the past. i got suitably geed up with all the requests for new blood at the MST and got off my arse signed up. And. . . . . . . . well that's been it really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I can fully understand the reasons for not joining the Trust, but what skills or experience do you need to start up your own movement? Hee-haw if you ask me. Just a bit of spare time and dedication. But it's easier to snipe than 'do', innit...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 The original idea of Supporters' Trusts was to create an organised and democratic way for fans to have influence over the way their club is run, either through ownership of shares or some sort of other representation (e.g. on the board). Unless the club is willing to acknowledge that influence then the Trust will be nothing more than a fund raising activity. That's a fine achievement in itself, but it's not a Supporters' Trust in the true sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 is that no what i did with this very website your posting on? I'm nae sniping for the sake of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 The original idea of Supporters' Trusts was to create an organised and democratic way for fans to have influence over the way their club is run, either through ownership of shares or some sort of other representation (e.g. on the board). Unless the club is willing to acknowledge that influence then the Trust will be nothing more than a fund raising activity. That's a fine achievement in itself, but it's not a Supporters' Trust in the true sense. Is that not because the trust can't get enough members to justify having enough shares to get someone on the board? Oh, wait a minute... Martin Rose is on the board, and whats he done?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Gaag - that was the very point I was about to make. You should relate to people who want to try to get the Trust off the ground. Most people would acknowledge that a good Trust would be a good thing for all, but nobody seems to want to take it on. It's the same situation as when 'Flow gave up this site. Nobody wanted the site to close but everyone, myself included, shirked the responsiblilty of taking it on. You should relate when you've done something for the good of the 'Well support and you regularly take pelters for it. That's how I felt when I was on the Trust board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 anyway ye can't very well set up an alternative supporters trust when one is already in existence can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I can fully understand the reasons for not joining the Trust, but what skills or experience do you need to start up your own movement? Hee-haw if you ask me. Just a bit of spare time and dedication. But it's easier to snipe than 'do', innit...? You're beginning to wander a wee bit off track Frazzle. Folk will 'do' if they have a decent umbrella to 'do' anything under. Folk cant go off fundraising willy nilly for some of the projects we are talking about they would need to be under the MST or whatever body was recognised by the club. If there were splinter groups shooting off all over the place - no local businesses or individuals would contribute to that for justifiable reasons. The Trust have done some great work in the past there's no denying it. However the basics have been lost, even a "we're in crisis, give us time to get it sorted out" email would have at least kept folk in the know. When i see the names of those that have left and the energy and edge that they brought to discussions on here - I'm dismayed. When I see the (a couple of) names of the people that remain - I'm dismayed (probably best left at that). I'll consider getting involved in a new body as a contributor. But it would need to be more edgy and challenging and faster moving. Than what we have left with a couple of wannabe establishment type figures that would be far happier full time on the other side of the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Is that not because the trust can't get enough members to justify having enough shares to get someone on the board? Oh, wait a minute... Martin Rose is on the board, and whats he done?!? See, we're back to this Martin Rose thing again. I still don't get why everybody who hated him didn't just vote him off the Trust. An EGM or similar would have taken care of that. It sounds like a case of people preferring to moan than actually do something about it. On the share front, it's nothing to do with number of members. If the Trust wants shares they have to buy them in sufficient numbers to get appropriate representation. However, if its a well run Trust, they can have influence over the board without voting rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Someone has to stand against him to be voted off. I'm pretty sure if Peter Tobin stood against him, Martin Rose would be out the door, but it simply hasn't happened. You're right, Steve, when you say you can't have another Trust. But you can have another fans movement. You can have as many of them as the fanbase dictates. The only thing a new movement wouldn't be able to have while the Trust still exists would be shares in the club, but should that be the priority anyway? Most people criticise the Trust board members for wanting to grab onto shares for their own prestige and power, so the absence of that would kill that stigma for any new group. Even if it was set up purely as a fundraising group, if and when the time ever comes when the fans need a voice to the club, do you think they would go to the new group with 500 members and a big pot of cash and a few solid seasons of activity and being recognised, or would they turn to the half a dozen guys in blazers who meet once a month to shuffle paper because they have worthless shares? I will say at this point that I would wholeheartedly support any group that is created, but I don't think it would be appropriate for me to be involved in the running of it given the damage the Trust will undoubtedly have done to my personal reputation. Come on folks- money where your mouth is time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 The question that can be asked at this early point then would be "who would be willing to help out, and in what capacity?". Just for the sake of this discussion, let's imagine that the current trust folds tomorrow. Who would be willing to step forward, on any level? I'm not talking about taking control, or running things, i'm simply asking what kind of time and resources would anyone have that they would be willing to put into a new venture to begin with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I personally, and FirParkCorner FC as a Motherwell supporters team, would support it in any way possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 As would I. However, with me not being a veteran poster here, or involved with the previous trust in any way, i'd be reluctant to take a major hand in things. Would do whatever I could though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 i would help out wherever and whenever i could, dunno how much use I'd be though given the 0 experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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