mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't agree with that. There are certainly people there who are more than willing to get involved and to try make a difference. As I said in a previous post there certainly has to be more progress and activity by the Trust , but in some cases we are in a no win situation. For example in your post earlier you questioned our need to be at last weeks meeting , however there you pointed out that we don't do anything. Not saying that attending one meeting represents a worthwhile contribution ,but I reckon it is attending the kind of events that we should be attending. What I meant was you seemed to jump at the chance of that meeting as it was a chance to look good to the rest of the fans and actually seem like you're doing something. But I think the trust should be doing this kind of thing off their own backs. I mean, a few people who are in the Trust regularly post on here. Therefore, they must have read in the past about fans having problems at Ibrox, Parkhead and more recently Fir Park. Why then, have you not brought these and any other problems up at any Trust meetings? Or do we have to go to you directly to complain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 i don't think you have a suitable platform to reach the fans to properly inform them of what you are doing, this is maybe one of the main reasons for the scepticism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 i don't think you have a suitable platform to reach the fans to properly inform them of what you are doing, this is maybe one of the main reasons for the scepticism? That's what I was saying. Or trying to. Or forgot to... Here is a platform, Steelmen online. I'm sure Gaag would set up a subforum where a menber of the Trust could anser questions or deal with complaints or problems. WOuld the Trust be willing to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyRoss Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 What I meant was you seemed to jump at the chance of that meeting as it was a chance to look good to the rest of the fans and actually seem like you're doing something. But I think the trust should be doing this kind of thing off their own backs. I mean, a few people who are in the Trust regularly post on here. Therefore, they must have read in the past about fans having problems at Ibrox, Parkhead and more recently Fir Park. Why then, have you not brought these and any other problems up at any Trust meetings? Or do we have to go to you directly to complain? As I said to Frazza I think we should be looking at sites like this one and trying to gain an understanding of the issues raised by fans. I am not sure if the issues at Parkhead were raised (I have attended one meeting since I joined and that was towards the end of last month. It wasn't brought up then - but the last OF game was at the start of November). As Frazzle has said it would be nice to think that people would approach us with their issues , but it doesn't seem like there will be much of that especially from people like yourself who don't believe the Trust has a function. And that is in no way a dig at you as you are very much entitled to have that viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 We had that previously and, while it's a good idea in theory, in practise it was practically dormant so I asked for it to be removed. That way, any Trust issues that came up were in the Motherwell section and were then viewed by more people, leading to a higher level of interest. With regards to platforms for us to communicate, we have just spent quite a bit of time re-vamping our website, we send newsletters to our members, and we're hoping to have a regular page in the official programme going forward. Obviously, about half the board post on here regularly aswell so from that point of view, I think we're considerably more open and accessible than the club itself (that's not a dig at the club - I know that progress is being made there aswell). Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 As Frazzle has said it would be nice to think that people would approach us with their issues , but it doesn't seem like there will be much of that especially from people like yourself who don't believe the Trust has a function. How do we approach the Trust with a complaint though? I've certainly never been told how to go about that, nor do I know anyone who has. And I would be more than willing to change my opinion and would love to be proved wrong! We had that previously and, while it's a good idea in theory, in practise it was practically dormant so I asked for it to be removed. That way, any Trust issues that came up were in the Motherwell section and were then viewed by more people, leading to a higher level of interest. With regards to platforms for us to communicate, we have just spent quite a bit of time re-vamping our website, we send newsletters to our members, and we're hoping to have a regular page in the official programme going forward. Obviously, about half the board post on here regularly aswell so from that point of view, I think we're considerably more open and accessible than the club itself (that's not a dig at the club - I know that progress is being made there aswell). Frazzle What % of fans is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 we send newsletters to our members Can I ask that the Trust consider posting newsletters online (a wee link on some of the messageboards would boost the viewing numbers!) and letting non-Trust members see what the Trust are currently working on/achieving? I appreciate that a newsletter is considered a benefit of becoming a Trust member but it would open the Trust up a little more to non-members and might detract some criticism that they are doing nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 We have a registerred postal address, which is c/o Douglas Barr Solicitors in Wishaw, but for simplicity, you can put it in an email. Every board member has a dedicated MST address - mine is fraz@welltrust.net so feel free to use that. However, it is not essential that you go through official channels. If someone raised something FAO the Trust on here, or sent one of the board members a PM, I guarantee it would be treated in the same manner as an official approach. I would estimate that roughly 5% of season ticket holders are Trust members. I know that this figure is far too low and we're setting about changing that. However, as I've said before, I think that we will struggle to raise the amount, even if we do change popular opinion, as we don't offer anything in the way of incentives (I'm on the case with that just now). What I mean is that, because we attempt to represent all Motherwell fans, a lot of people think that there's no reason to join. Going forward, I aim to change this as a matter of priority. Watch this space. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 it's funny how even wee things like car stickers, t-shirts etc entice people to join, for potentially very little initial outlay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Can I ask that the Trust consider posting newsletters online (a wee link on some of the messageboards would boost the viewing numbers!) and letting non-Trust members see what the Trust are currently working on/achieving? I appreciate that a newsletter is considered a benefit of becoming a Trust member but it would open the Trust up a little more to non-members and might detract some criticism that they are doing nothing. I understand your point on that, but I don't agree. Whenever we send a newsletter out, the contents will, by and large, appear on the website, but I think there has to be some things that members are told in advance and have an input to before it's released. As I said in my last post, there's not enough benefits to being a member of the Trust, and I'm very conscious of taking the few remaining ones away. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sieb_dystras_barmy_army Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Guys , First of all I do know that Gregor Mc Kenzie wasn't the match commander yesterday and I do know that he operates with other 'match commanders' on a rota basis. From Strathclyde Police side though it is he that has been designated by them to attend the meeting. In answer to your postings: Do I work for the club - yes and have done so for almost 20 years. Do I have the authority to approach police on such matters - again yes - I can make things happen given the chance. Has the meeting with the wellboys come about due to post by sieb dkystras barmy army - no it came about simply because I got fed up with all the hassle between the wellboys etc and the stewards/police ( from both sides ) and knew how to get both sides talking. What do we want to get from these meetings - understanding on both sides - it is a genuine attempt to make things better from both the clubs point of view and from the supporters point of view- all I ask is that you give us a chance. Hopefuly that clarifies things up - I understand your cynisism however I want to improve things so if you need further clarification please pm me. I noticed at the Hearts game that any standing sections positioned themselves towards the back of the East stand, good to see, keep the attmosphere up whilst minimising disruption to others, a positive step. And, some folk are a wee bit too full of their own importance, if they do indeed have any! CHARS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfinz Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Can I ask what the mission statement of the Trust is? I am confused as to what the aims and objectives of the Trust are! Is there a fee to join the Trust? Surely that money would be better spent on merchandise that benefits the club, and not a group of supporters' egos? To me, it seems that it is a bunch of 'holier than thou' well fans, all desperate to prove they are a better fan than the next man. That is not meant as a dig, but a serious conception I have of the Trust. Perhaps you can advise otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Reuben Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 To me, it seems that it is a bunch of 'holier than thou' well fans, all desperate to prove they are a better fan than the next man. That is not meant as a dig, but a serious conception I have of the Trust. Perhaps you can advise otherwise? Exactly why I am no longer a member Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyRoss Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Well I take it as a dig! Speaking for myself (although the guys that have taken time to respond to other posts on this thread are without doubt 100% the same) I am in no way desperate to prove I am a bigger fan than anyone else and it seems pretty unfair for you to say so with no background knowledge. Signed up to try and improve the Trust and hopefully that will be the case , it is certainly not a point scoring exercise. I can already see the "taking myself too seriously" post that will follow and again that isn't the case - I just think you are off the mark with that post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't know what I've done to give you that impression, airfinz. For what it's worth, that used to be my own opinion of the Trust. I joined up because I recognise what an excellent concept Supporters Trusts are, and how beneficial they can be to fans and clubs alike, and I could see that ours wasn't using that potential. There is a £10 annual fee to join the Trust. I think that's a reasonable fee, but it's not for me to tell people where and how they spend their money. The main objectives of the Trust are to improve communications between the club and the fans, and to represent the fans views, with the overall aim to be given our own, legitimate, elected seat on the board of directors of the club. One of the items on the agenda of this months meeting (scheduled for this Wednesday) is to re-afirm the goals of the movement and to produce a revised Mission Statement. It is no secret that the Trust was set up in a hurry to help the club through administration and, while that was all well and good at the time, I think it's fair to say that since the future of the club has been secured, the Trust has not done itself or the fans justice. The present board do not hide from that fact, but we are doing all we can to change it. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Seagull Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't know what I've done to give you that impression, airfinz. For what it's worth, that used to be my own opinion of the Trust. I joined up because I recognise what an excellent concept Supporters Trusts are, and how beneficial they can be to fans and clubs alike, and I could see that ours wasn't using that potential. There is a £10 annual fee to join the Trust. I think that's a reasonable fee, but it's not for me to tell people where and how they spend their money. The main objectives of the Trust are to improve communications between the club and the fans, and to represent the fans views, with the overall aim to be given our own, legitimate, elected seat on the board of directors of the club. One of the items on the agenda of this months meeting (scheduled for this Wednesday) is to re-afirm the goals of the movement and to produce a revised Mission Statement. It is no secret that the Trust was set up in a hurry to help the club through administration and, while that was all well and good at the time, I think it's fair to say that since the future of the club has been secured, the Trust has not done itself or the fans justice. The present board do not hide from that fact, but we are doing all we can to change it. Frazzle Here is the thing... The Trust remains the only 'voice of the fans' that is anywhere near big enough to make a difference. If you really want to be heard, or to have things changed at Fir Park, you need to be part of the Trust. Moaning on these boards (and I am not pointing the finger at anyone in particular here - I have enjoyed my fair share of rants in the past) achieves nothing other than letting steam off. Whether the trust could/should be better is irrelevant, although it strikes me that it will become more powerful and effective the larger its membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 You've hit the nail on the head there, Seagull. I'm partly delighted that someone has summed the situation up so perfectly, but I'm also partly ragin' that I've almost written a book on this thread and not managed to put what I'm saying across so well. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfinz Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't know what I've done to give you that impression, airfinz. For what it's worth, that used to be my own opinion of the Trust. I joined up because I recognise what an excellent concept Supporters Trusts are, and how beneficial they can be to fans and clubs alike, and I could see that ours wasn't using that potential. There is a £10 annual fee to join the Trust. I think that's a reasonable fee, but it's not for me to tell people where and how they spend their money. The main objectives of the Trust are to improve communications between the club and the fans, and to represent the fans views, with the overall aim to be given our own, legitimate, elected seat on the board of directors of the club. One of the items on the agenda of this months meeting (scheduled for this Wednesday) is to re-afirm the goals of the movement and to produce a revised Mission Statement. It is no secret that the Trust was set up in a hurry to help the club through administration and, while that was all well and good at the time, I think it's fair to say that since the future of the club has been secured, the Trust has not done itself or the fans justice. The present board do not hide from that fact, but we are doing all we can to change it. Frazzle Nothing that you have said or done has given me the impression Frazzle; it is merely the impression I have of all 'trusts.' A prime example of this would be the egomaniac at Rangers Trust, David Edgar, who appears to be a dobber of the highest extreme. Thanks for clarifying bits and bobs; but can I ask, why do the Trust harbout the ambition to have a seat on the Board of Directors? Does that not fall into the 'David Edgar' category - ie - a bumped up nobody with a whole load of misplaced self importance? How would the Trust member be put forward? The guy with the most mates? Would he be willing to sacrifice his day job to undertake the role, and if not what would the point be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Reuben Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 You've hit the nail on the head there, Seagull. I'm partly delighted that someone has summed the situation up so perfectly, but I'm also partly ragin' that I've almost written a book on this thread and not managed to put what I'm saying across so well. Frazzle Great; just what we need from a trust rep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Here is the thing... The Trust remains the only 'voice of the fans' that is anywhere near big enough to make a difference. If you really want to be heard, or to have things changed at Fir Park, you need to be part of the Trust. Moaning on these boards (and I am not pointing the finger at anyone in particular here - I have enjoyed my fair share of rants in the past) achieves nothing other than letting steam off. Whether the trust could/should be better is irrelevant, although it strikes me that it will become more powerful and effective the larger its membership. That statement is baffling. How can it be irrelevant? The fact that some posters are in the Trust is a positive thing as they can raise these issues on our behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The Supporters Trust should be representative of the fans they are representing (obviously) so the fact that the head of the Rangers Supporters Trust comes across as a dobber makes perfect sense to me! :-) In all seriousness, the Trust want a seat on the board for an elected (by the Trust members) individual. I don't doubt for a second that if we were granted such a position that the membership would probably increase tenfold so that everyone could have their vote or even put themselves forward. However, it is my belief that the board position will not be forthcoming from Mr Boyle until we have sufficient membership numbers to justify it, which is entirely understandable. That's the catch 22 that I keep talking about. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The Supporters Trust should be representative of the fans they are representing (obviously) so the fact that the head of the Rangers Supporters Trust comes across as a dobber makes perfect sense to me! :-) In all seriousness, the Trust want a seat on the board for an elected (by the Trust members) individual. I don't doubt for a second that if we were granted such a position that the membership would probably increase tenfold so that everyone could have their vote or even put themselves forward. However, it is my belief that the board position will not be forthcoming from Mr Boyle until we have sufficient membership numbers to justify it, which is entirely understandable. That's the catch 22 that I keep talking about. Frazzle Well it's down to you guys to attract members and you aren't doing a very good job just now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airfinz Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The Supporters Trust should be representative of the fans they are representing (obviously) so the fact that the head of the Rangers Supporters Trust comes across as a dobber makes perfect sense to me! :-) In all seriousness, the Trust want a seat on the board for an elected (by the Trust members) individual. I don't doubt for a second that if we were granted such a position that the membership would probably increase tenfold so that everyone could have their vote or even put themselves forward. However, it is my belief that the board position will not be forthcoming from Mr Boyle until we have sufficient membership numbers to justify it, which is entirely understandable. That's the catch 22 that I keep talking about. Frazzle Yeah, but for what purpose do the Trust want a seat on the Board? There appears to be no legitimate reason for there being a Trust rep on the Board, other than 'you want one.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev IM Jolly Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yeah, but for what purpose do the Trust want a seat on the Board? There appears to be no legitimate reason for there being a Trust rep on the Board, other than 'you want one.' I would have thought the purpose of a designated supporters trust seat on the board was pretty obvious. I believe there are at least a few Trust's throughout the UK who have secured such a seat at their respective clubs, and it is surely pretty much in line with the whole purpose of Supporter's Trusts in general - to provide an organised representation of the supporter's interests to their clubs; a task which would be quite plainly assisted by having an elected representative on the board of the club. Surely. I am a now lapsed member of the Trust and I watch with interest to see what changes the new guys are proposing and what actions they take, however I see no value in berating them/the Trust movement purely on the perceived reputations of the previous board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I realse that it's down to us to attract members, and what I was saying earlier in the thread is that because we try to represent the views of all Motherwell fans, members or not, that a lot of people don't see the benefit in joining. I've already said that one of the aims for this year is to offer members-only incentives, but that's easier said than done. The reason the Trust want a seat on the board is to have a fans say in the running of the club. Do you not wish that there was a like-minded 'Well fan sitting in the boardroom when the decision was made to hand over the Cooper Stand to the Old Firm? Or when they decided how to distribute tickets for the Nancy game? Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.