mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I realse that it's down to us to attract members, and what I was saying earlier in the thread is that because we try to represent the views of all Motherwell fans, members or not, that a lot of people don't see the benefit in joining. I've already said that one of the aims for this year is to offer members-only incentives, but that's easier said than done. The reason the Trust want a seat on the board is to have a fans say in the running of the club. Do you not wish that there was a like-minded 'Well fan sitting in the boardroom when the decision was made to hand over the Cooper Stand to the Old Firm? Or when they decided how to distribute tickets for the Nancy game? Frazzle Of course, a Trust member on the board would be beneficial for the fans, although to raise any issues like the ones above you don't need a seat on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 No, but to be able to actually influence them you do. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Seagull Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 That statement is baffling. How can it be irrelevant? The fact that some posters are in the Trust is a positive thing as they can raise these issues on our behalf. Why should the Trust represent the views of non members? The fact that the Trust has tried on a number of occasions to engage and represent the Support as a whole perhaps deters from the fact that they are only obliged to represent the views of their membership! My statement about whether the trust could/should be better is irrelevant stems from the fact that they remain the only fans forum with anything like a critical mass. If you want to be heard you have no alternative other than to be part of it - a single voice will not be heard, and its unlikely that another vehicle representing the fans would get off the ground! Thats not to say that you could not/would not improve the trust by joining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellboy60 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 From the clubs point of view we had a very good meeting with the wellboys/well trust ; all views were considered and debated and the last thing that was done just before the meeting ended was to make sure that all parties views had been taken on board and that all were happy with how the meeting had gone. We feel that having a 4 monthly meeting is a good thing however we have said that if there are any issues that come up on a week to week basis then these should be reported to the assistant/head stewards who will relay these back to the club/stewarding staff to make sure something is done about it. Similarly if any steward at all does not treat or speak to our fans/customers in a correct and proper manner then again please bring this to our attention. In the past the trust/the wellboys approached the wrong person to sort out these issues , as Dodge has pointed out ; that does not matter now - a line has been drawn in the sand and we move on. At the last match all seemed to go well with only the back two rows standing for the most part ; anyone outstanding outside these two rows were asked to sit and for the most part did so. We were delighted with the reponse from the supporters and did speak to the wellboys to tell them so. As an aside we will be inviting a rep from the well trust/the well boys to sit in with the match commender in some future match just so the wider issues involved with policing/stewarding a football match can be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Never has so much been written by so many about so little... I'm not a member of the Trust but I can see why it could be a good thing. If fans want to try and influence certain things are done at their football club, an official voice like a Trust is probably the way to go. Those complaining that the Trust doesn't do enough might consider the fact that if they joined, a Trust with a larger membership may carry more weight in any discussions with the club? Why haven't I joined then? Well, I don't really have the time to care about issues off the field. That's not meant as a criticism of those who wish to improve the lot of the supporters, I've just accepted that I'll go to the games no matter how they treat us and as I've said, I frankly don't really have time to worry about that fact. On the field is where I worry most about Motherwell. If the team are winning, they could serve nothing but dry bread and water at the catering stall. Until the Trust convince me that they could influence Motherwell into signing a decent centre back, my tenner stays in my pocket... My message to those outwith the Trust who do vex themselves at the Cooper situation, the lack of understanding from stewards, any ticketing issues, lack of communication from the club, paint on the stairs etc, is join the Trust. The Trust being there and you not using it to communicate your concerns with the club (what it's there for) is like having a phone but deciding the best way to contact yer Granny in Aberdeen is open the windae and shout... To the Trust, I say one thing. Certain Trust board members I have spoken with are dismissive of the opinions of the Supporters Association and even those of older members of the Trust itself. It seems to perceive the membership of the SA as old farts. It's a young organisation, the Trust, but it's there to communicate the opinions of all supporters, irrespective of age... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Why should the Trust represent the views of non members? Read the "About Us" section here. The fact that the Trust has tried on a number of occasions to engage and represent the Support as a whole perhaps deters from the fact that they are only obliged to represent the views of their membership! Again, read the "About Us" section here. My statement about whether the trust could/should be better is irrelevant stems from the fact that they remain the only fans forum with anything like a critical mass. If you want to be heard you have no alternative other than to be part of it - a single voice will not be heard, and its unlikely that another vehicle representing the fans would get off the ground! Thats not to say that you could not/would not improve the trust by joining. Why should I or anyone else join the Trust when they don't show any decent forward movement? A single voice won't be heard as you say, but who's to say I or anyone else wouldn't be a single voice within the Trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 You feeling a bit old, Melvin? I assume it's myself you're talking about when you mention the Supporters Association - it is true to say that I personally don't have a great amount of time for the organisation and I have my reasons for this. I don't have any personal issues with any of their members, but I feel they serve next to no purpose, provide unreasonable opposition to the Trust and are self-serving. One of the first objectives I had when I joined the Trust was to bring the various supporters groups closer together, and to work in harmony with each other to be mutually beneficial for the organisations. However, approaches from the Trust to the Association to run joint ventures was rebuffed for no reason, basically because they don't like the Trust as they feel that our formation has stepped on their toes. I don't have time for that level of petty-mindedness and make no apologies for my indifference towards them. The fact that they, by and large, an older crowd has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Trust board (I think) has had people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s on it in my time there and I think that's healthy. It might be significant to note at this point that one of the issues we've opposed recently is the age of OAP concessions at Fir Park being raised from 60 to 65. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Seagull Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Read the "About Us" section here. I appreciate the Trust has set out a wide and varied mission statement for itself, but again I ask why should it attempt to represent all fans? As with any organisation it is only 'obliged' to represent its own members. Why should non-members simply freeload, and expect the organisation to represent their thoughts and wishes? Why should I or anyone else join the Trust when they don't show any decent forward movement? As I have said in my earlier posts - IF you care enough, and want to be heard and counted, it is the only viable option open to you! It will also provide you with the opportunity to provide the forward movement that you clearly crave. What is the alternative? Waiting for the perfect bandwagon before jumping on board will mean missing out. Either you care enough to do something about it, or you don't. A single voice won't be heard as you say, but who's to say I or anyone else wouldn't be a single voice within the Trust? And who is to say that you would not be? Unless you give it a go, you will never know! Whether we like it or not, its this sort of defeatist/apathetic 'why bother' attitude that Boyle appears to rely on - until a critical mass of fans unite behind 1 representative body, he can easily dismiss the fans as being insignificant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Why should I or anyone else join the Trust when they don't show any decent forward movement? A single voice won't be heard as you say, but who's to say I or anyone else wouldn't be a single voice within the Trust? I've asked you already what you think we should be doing and you've not given me an answer. What 'forward movement' would you need to see from us to make you join? Also, there is no guarantee that if you join the Trust, we will always agree with your opinions as a movement, but our stance on any number of issues is moulded by our members. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 You could argue that we aren't obliged to represent non-members, but it is our overall goal to be a fans representative on the board, so we ought to start as we mean to continue. We can't reasonably expect to have a seat on the board, while disregarding the views of the majority of fans. Before anyone says it, I know it can seem as though the current board does exactly that, but our elected member would be on the board as a fans representative, not as a board member in his own right like Martin Rose is. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I've asked you already what you think we should be doing and you've not given me an answer. What 'forward movement' would you need to see from us to make you join? Also, there is no guarantee that if you join the Trust, we will always agree with your opinions as a movement, but our stance on any number of issues is moulded by our members. Frazzle Well for a start you could make the Trust seem a more attractive group for fans to join which would in turn, help you reach your goals. I accept you're trying to do that but how long will that take? I have came across as I care a lot more than I actually do about this My main arguement against the Trust is I don't think you guys do enough to justify your existance and I fear I may never be proven wrong. And as the Seagul says, you only have to represent yourselves, so far so good with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 That answer was just bluster. How can we make it more attractive? If we can, we will! Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaag Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 That answer was just bluster. How can we make it more attractive? If we can, we will! Frazzle Get Martin Rose off your register. The day that happens is the day loads of folk sign up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 That answer was just bluster. How can we make it more attractive? If we can, we will! Frazzle What actions will the Trust be taking forward into this new year Fraz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 That answer was just bluster. How can we make it more attractive? If we can, we will! Frazzle Well you tell me why I should join the Trust? What is the Trust aiming to achieve in 2009? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Seagull Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 And as the Seagul says, you only have to represent yourselves, so far so good with that. That's a strange comment to sign off on! Frazzle has asked you repeatedly in this thread to elaborate on the points that would make a difference to you, and here you are suggesting that he only looks out for himself? I've had my beefs with the Trust in the past, but if they continue with the vigour that Frazzle has displayed on this thread, I will have to think long and hard about rejoining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I understand the Martin Rose argument. As far as the Trusts aims for 2009, some are simple - raise membership numbers, become more accessible to fans and acquire more shares in the club. We will do this by raising our profile through organising fund-raising events such as the annual Quiz Night and sixes tournament plus making considerable donations of equiptment to Gordon Youngs Youth Developement. We also have a 'Pitch In' fund which we hope will be used to construct a new disabled enclosure as the one we have at present is completely inadequate. We also hope to work more closely with Leann Dempster with her new initiatives at the club. I also expect a significant amount of Trust re-branding, with the new website being the start of that. Another aim for the year is to acquire permanent use of the Ladbrokes kiosk and to have a regular information page in the programme. We also hope to be represented on match days in the Cooper Suite pre-match. There is probably more than that but that's all that comes to mind at the moment. Ask me again after the meeting on Wednesday if that's not enough for you. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mon_da_well Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I wish the MST the best of luck with their aims for 2009. Prove me and whoever else wrong and actually do something, that'll go a long way towards changing opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe_Green Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I was most amused at the treatment of what is one of the most problematic issues surrounding the Trust "I understand the Martin Rose argument" A one liner then move on quickly to more of what we hope to do. As far as I'm concerned there are many potential members watching and waiting to see the 'Rose' Issue resolved, and until it is resolved then thats exactly what they will be Potential members. You can have as many objectives, rebranding, kiosks etc as you choose, but until this one glaring issue is fixed, you can forget me and many others joining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Why should the Trust represent the views of non members? The fact that the Trust has tried on a number of occasions to engage and represent the Support as a whole perhaps deters from the fact that they are only obliged to represent the views of their membership! Exactly, but they continually claim to be representative of the WHOLE support, they are NOT. They have a mandate from their members only, which, they claim is around 5% of season ticket holders. maybe if the Trust took a long hard look at itself, the way it operates and the way it (fails to) communicate, and sorted these things out we supporters might see the value in becoming members. The thing is we are much more likely to be offered a car sticker or a tee-shirt, than get any radical changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Nobody can represent the WHOLE support. You just need to read a couple of threads on here to see the many views exist on various subjects. The best that can be hoped is to represent a majority view; and even trying to establish what that might be sounds problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe_Green Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Exactly, but they continually claim to be representative of the WHOLE support, they are NOT.They have a mandate from their members only, which, they claim is around 5% of season ticket holders. maybe if the Trust took a long hard look at itself, the way it operates and the way it (fails to) communicate, and sorted these things out we supporters might see the value in becoming members. The thing is we are much more likely to be offered a car sticker or a tee-shirt, than get any radical changes. I think to be fair to the Trust, there are new guys on board who are trying to change things, this will not happen overnight, and to expect it to is being unreasonable. There are many things needing fixed for the Trust to be 'Trusted' if the guys are trying then give them breathing space, if in 3 months time nothing has changed then by all means have your say then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm not suggesting for a minute that the Wellboys needed us to be there to represent them - they are more than capable of representing themselves - but there were a couple of very significant points raised by the Trust that I believe will be put into practise to the benefit of the Motherwell support as a whole that were not part of the Wellboys agenda. Can you elaborate on this? What precisely were the points raised and how significant are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I am in no way desperate to prove I am a bigger fan than anyone else I think all you would have to do is stand up and you'd prove that one Seriously though the Trust will represent a greater view of the support when they have more supporters on the board. Simplistic perhaps and it is of course not as simple as that but its no a kick in the erchie off it. Being honest I don't know enough about the Trust's politics to be disengaged from them but generally they seem to be trying to raise their profile, raise their membership and better represent us as a fanbase. If I mentioned the Trust a year ago next to nobody on here would even be able to tell you anything they had done now they can and to me that is progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think all you would have to do is stand up and you'd prove that one Seriously though the Trust will represent a greater view of the support when they have more supporters on the board. Simplistic perhaps and it is of course not as simple as that but its no a kick in the erchie off it. Being honest I don't know enough about the Trust's politics to be disengaged from them but generally they seem to be trying to raise their profile, raise their membership and better represent us as a fanbase. If I mentioned the Trust a year ago next to nobody on here would even be able to tell you anything they had done now they can and to me that is progress. Well, that's good maybe you can enlighten me then. I've been on their website and checked out their list of "acheivements" a list which relates in it's entirety to themselves and the club. No mention of the fans. I've said this before but it bears stressing, the Trust needs to look at why they are not attracting more members, answering that conundrum will allow them to re-address ways of conscripting (for want of a better word) new members. It certainly isn't through car stickers and t-shirts. The Malcolm Rose question isn't going away, and thankfully Frazzle has acknowledged that. The Well Trust was originally set up to assist the club when it was in provisional liquidation and many fans still associate it with that period and, now we are in more auspicious financial climes, as a club if not a nation, many may see the Trust as being somewhat redundant. That's something that has to be addressed. Frankly communication from the Trust leaves a lot to be desired, and makes a mockery of their avowed intention to improve communication between the club and the fans. Most of the fans aren't interested in minutes and press releases all they want to know is, what was discussed? and what was the outcome? Cut the flannel and give them the details, anyone who wants them can get the minutes from the Trust website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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