Just A Thought.....

[Emmjay]

My late father was a Steelman all his days...supported 'Well through good times and bad.

My interest has always been nominal, and fortunately, my kids are massive supporters.

Ergo...there is always discussion.

A year ago, my husband and kids were at the Motherwell/Dundee United game. As a family, we were stunned and saddened, and joined in the public display of support for Phil O'Donnell's family, and in turn for the players, and the Club.

One year on, and the loss is still keenly felt.

Mark McGhee , in my humble opinion, has misjudged his leadership of the Team from this point last year, and instead of a positive and sensitive support, he seems to have allowed to develop an emotional indifference towards the welfare of his players. On the few occasions I've been at Fir Park this season, I've been dismayed to watch the players emerge from the tunnel like bees from a jam jar....every which way, and none at all...and instead of going on the pitch as a united front, they've been all over the place...physically as well as emotionally. For Mr McGhee to berate the deficiences of the boys, and stand impassively on occasions on the sidelines, is at the very least, a cop out. He's only doing a job. His heart is elsewhere, and has been since he was rumbled. We need someone with integrity and passion to get us out of the mess.

Clearly, I'm no expert. I just know when someone isn't leading from the front, and biting the hands that are paying him....

The support hasn't been slow in the past to criticise the leadership, but the silence is deafening at the moment.

However, yesterday showed a spark......and with a manager's passion for the Club, and I don't think its Mr McGhee, we could effectively claw back against a very poor season thus far.

I'm now going to enter my nuclear bunker, and place my welder's helmet firmly over my big mouth.. ..but like the great Roy Walker would encourage his Catchphrasers...say what ye see

[that hat]

Rarely heard such praise for their manager than I do from the present squad of players.

 

MMcG is openly not a 'Well supporter and doesn't share our passion for the club, but in this results driven business he has undoubtedly encouraged the team to punch way above its weight.

[Kmcalpin]

For someone whose interest in the Dossers has been "nominal" Emmjay, you are remarkably perceptive and many will no doubt think you've a very keen understanding of what is going on.

 

A good thought provoking post.

[weeyin]

Refraining from jumping up and down like Terry Butcher doesn't equate to a lack of passion. There are plenty of top managers/coaches in many sports who show no emotion. Their passion is focused on the training ground, and in the detailed preparation for each game.

[Wellfan1984]

Whit? What are we struggling to get out off? What can McGhee not lead us out of?

[Guest 'Flow]

One of the biggest myths, or misunderstandings, in football is that a coach or manager needs to ramble and rave like a madman on the touchline or in the dressing room in order to motivate his team.

 

That is, indeed, a lot of rubbish... Speak to most professional players and they will tell you that Mark McGhee's calm, reasoned and objective approach is far more effective

 

I agree with virtually none of your post Emmjay - infact, I'd go as far as to say I don't agree with any of it whatsoever. I think Mark McGhee's leadership, post the O'Donnell tragedy, was impeccable and I doubt very many other men could've handled what was a massive, massive loss in such a professional and dignified manner.

 

He faced an almost impossible task of having to lift the players after such a monumental blow and still steered us to third place - our best finish in over a decade with seven points to spare over the fourth placed side. 2007/2008 seen us play the best football in my time as a fan (and I include McLean's last year in 1994 in that). This year, we obviously haven't reached the same heights but we're Motherwell - these sort of things happen.

 

I've been a wee bit disappointed that the team and the manager haven't received the 'benefit of the doubt' with some supporters given the highs and lows of last year but that is football I suppose - the gaffer has been in the game long enough to understand that I am sure.

 

We're currently six points from a top-six place with a game in hand... We're hardly in a nightmare scenario. I still believe very much (even before yesterday's win) that we can and will make the top half of the league come the split.

 

'Flow

[wellgirl]

I don't think the silence is deafening when it comes to McGhee either, to say he's had some criticism from the support of late would be a massive understatement.

[Gaag]

I don't think the silence is deafening when it comes to McGhee either, to say he's had some criticism from the support of late would be a massive understatement.

 

Aye, very true... but then magically, after one win all of a sudden there's no more McGhee must go threads etc

 

It's a bit daft imo, cos at the end of the day, as 'Flow says we're only a kick in the nuts off top six.

 

In my view, there's nothing to turn around, there's no crisis to fix or problems to solve. We'll be fine as we always are. Let's just get behind the team and hope that after saturday's result we go on a nice rich vein of form.

 

That said... I don't really see the top 6 changing much this year, maybe hibs will drop out of it, but I reckon Dundee Utd, Aberdeen & Hearts will be there come the split.

[Yir Elder]

We're currently six points from a top-six place with a game in hand... We're hardly in a nightmare scenario. I still believe very much (even before yesterday's win) that we can and will make the top half of the league come the split.

 

'Flow

 

Good positive stuff mate, we're far from out of the Top Six race, but we have to look below us too at this juncture.

[Faddyisgod]

I've been a wee bit disappointed that the team and the manager haven't received the 'benefit of the doubt' with some supporters given the highs and lows of last year but that is football I suppose - the gaffer has been in the game long enough to understand that I am sure.

 

'Flow

 

I agree with just about everything you say 'Flow except this part to be honest. At the end of the day the players have shown how capable they are last season and considering the amount that certain players within our squad and the manager himself collect in wages then we should at least see a bit of fight and determination when the chips were down over the previous six games (excluding Inverness of course). Moreover I think it would be fair to say that in most of those games that passion and belief that may pull you through and help you pick up a point instead of losing a game was sadly lacking. At the end of the day we are Motherwell, nobody on this messageboard believes for one second that we should be winning every game we play. However there should certainly be 100% effort and fight to try and win a game. And between November and Most of this month that was sadly lacking.

[Guest 'Flow]

Fair points Faddy but I would argue most definitely that the players have been giving of their all in those games... We have a very honest bunch of professionals at Motherwell at the moment and all of them to a man take pride in their performance when they step onto the park.

 

I've heard just about every player admit that we're not playing as well as we did last year but do you know what, that happens all the time. Scottish Football, certainly the top flight, is littered with examples of teams doing really well for a season, maybe making third spot, then not being able to sustain it the following season for one reason or another.

 

It doesn't make the players bad players. It doesn’t make the manager a bad manager... It is just sometimes happens and often there is no one single reason for it. If there were, then a team in the SPL would regularly finish third in the table but I think I am right in saying that since the establishment of the league in the late nineties, seven different clubs have finished in the third placed position in those ten years. That tends to suggest that sustaining that level required (even for bigger teams like Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen) is difficult.

 

We've been off-form in the last month or so, there is no doubt about that. But I think everyone can often look to deep into why that happens. I'm not for one minute suggesting that us not performing to quite the same level as last year is down to yer "Donald Duck" (to quote Mo) but I don't think it's quite as technical as some people make out. Sometimes good players, good teams, good managers and good coaches can have an off patch. You’re a sportsman Faddy and I am sure you’ll agree that when you’re playing TT, there are times when you just can’t do anything right despite all your preparation being identical.

 

I do stand by my statement that I think the fans should cut the players and management some slack this year given last. Not living in the past, but we're Motherwell - a team that realistically (Given budgetary restrictions) isn't going to challenge for the best of the rest award each and every season. To that end, given we have very recently done that and played in Europe - despite all the hurdles we've had to overcome, it would be nice if the fans could just be a wee bit more understanding when things aren't quite as good! Not saying everyone should be ‘happy clappy’, not even the boys expect that, but instead of criticism and booing, some encouraging and understanding would prove beneficial I reckon.

 

And yes, I do still very much think we can finish top-six... Particularly if we can get positive results away to St Mirren and home to Hearts.

 

'Mon the Dossers!!!

 

'Flow

[SteelEdge]

Vrey well put, 'Flow.

 

I can't really agree with anything the original poster in this thread said, and I don't even get what the bees and jam jar analogy about the players coming out the tunnel is all about.

[Scooby Hugh]

One of the biggest myths, or misunderstandings, in football is that a coach or manager needs to ramble and rave like a madman on the touchline or in the dressing room in order to motivate his team.

 

That is, indeed, a lot of rubbish... Speak to most professional players and they will tell you that Mark McGhee's calm, reasoned and objective approach is far more effective

 

I agree with virtually none of your post Emmjay - infact, I'd go as far as to say I don't agree with any of it whatsoever. I think Mark McGhee's leadership, post the O'Donnell tragedy, was impeccable and I doubt very many other men could've handled what was a massive, massive loss in such a professional and dignified manner.

 

He faced an almost impossible task of having to lift the players after such a monumental blow and still steered us to third place - our best finish in over a decade with seven points to spare over the fourth placed side. 2007/2008 seen us play the best football in my time as a fan (and I include McLean's last year in 1994 in that). This year, we obviously haven't reached the same heights but we're Motherwell - these sort of things happen.

 

I've been a wee bit disappointed that the team and the manager haven't received the 'benefit of the doubt' with some supporters given the highs and lows of last year but that is football I suppose - the gaffer has been in the game long enough to understand that I am sure.

 

We're currently six points from a top-six place with a game in hand... We're hardly in a nightmare scenario. I still believe very much (even before yesterday's win) that we can and will make the top half of the league come the split.

 

'Flow

 

Flow,

 

I agree with every single word in your post.

 

I for one can't understand why people are looking to get MMG sacked, a couple of wins and were back in the top six.

 

We had a fantastic season last year and people expect the same (would be good to have), even with other teams getting stronger and getting form back, were still in a not to bad position.

 

It's a long season folk, so just chill out and enjoy the rollercoaster ride

 

Shug

[Emmjay]

The "bees from the jam jar" analogy was a phrase my father used often to describe a lack of unity from players who were all over the place, forgetting dressing room logic and tactics.

I'm heartened by all comments, which defend Mr McGhee, and his calm, measured responses , and I agree that jumping up and down on the sidelines does not a better manager make.

Passion for the Club..??..there seems to be a general consensus that Mr McGhee is doing a good job under a certain amount of pressure at the moment....

Everyone can do a job...but there are jobs that require fire in the belly, the extra mile, the er....what's that magic word....passion.

There have been previous managers who did the job for which they were paid, but injected the common touch of personal interest, and familial unity amongst players and club officials. This would have set the Dossers apart from the rest....and has previously encouraged a family and inclusive atmosphere at Fir Park which continues to endure. Mr McGhee is merely doing a job.

Motherwell needs more than this.....

 

[Faddyisgod]

Fair points Faddy but I would argue most definitely that the players have been giving of their all in those games... We have a very honest bunch of professionals at Motherwell at the moment and all of them to a man take pride in their performance when they step onto the park.

 

I've heard just about every player admit that we're not playing as well as we did last year but do you know what, that happens all the time. Scottish Football, certainly the top flight, is littered with examples of teams doing really well for a season, maybe making third spot, then not being able to sustain it the following season for one reason or another.

 

It doesn't make the players bad players. It doesn’t make the manager a bad manager... It is just sometimes happens and often there is no one single reason for it. If there were, then a team in the SPL would regularly finish third in the table but I think I am right in saying that since the establishment of the league in the late nineties, seven different clubs have finished in the third placed position in those ten years. That tends to suggest that sustaining that level required (even for bigger teams like Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen) is difficult.

 

We've been off-form in the last month or so, there is no doubt about that. But I think everyone can often look to deep into why that happens. I'm not for one minute suggesting that us not performing to quite the same level as last year is down to yer "Donald Duck" (to quote Mo) but I don't think it's quite as technical as some people make out. Sometimes good players, good teams, good managers and good coaches can have an off patch. You’re a sportsman Faddy and I am sure you’ll agree that when you’re playing TT, there are times when you just can’t do anything right despite all your preparation being identical.

 

I do stand by my statement that I think the fans should cut the players and management some slack this year given last. Not living in the past, but we're Motherwell - a team that realistically (Given budgetary restrictions) isn't going to challenge for the best of the rest award each and every season. To that end, given we have very recently done that and played in Europe - despite all the hurdles we've had to overcome, it would be nice if the fans could just be a wee bit more understanding when things aren't quite as good! Not saying everyone should be ‘happy clappy’, not even the boys expect that, but instead of criticism and booing, some encouraging and understanding would prove beneficial I reckon.

 

And yes, I do still very much think we can finish top-six... Particularly if we can get positive results away to St Mirren and home to Hearts.

 

'Mon the Dossers!!!

 

'Flow

 

This is a very interesting and well constructed post 'Flow and to be honest I cant argue with most of it and wouldnt want to. In fact I highlighted some of these points in my original post, perhaps most importantly the fact being that I believe that we have a very talented group of players and despite our slump this season, a talented manager and we should be further up the league than we are at the minute. Also I would never think for one second that we would automatically be challenging for 3rd spot once again, particularly with the improvements that teams like Hearts and Dundee United have made over the close season. However when we are joint bottom of the league as we were last week, fans should be allowed to express their opinions on the teams battling qualities of the team and I suppose we are going to disagree on that because in the derby match 2 weeks ago it seemed to me as though Hamilton did want it more and seemed hungrier than our players.

 

I also agree with you that even in my sport, you can always have an off day and go through slumps in form that are difficult to get out of. However, the massive difference between myself and professional footballers is that when I go through a slump of getting knocked out of tournaments in the 1st or 2nd round, I dont get paid and will nearly always make a loss for that week and no matter what anyone says, it motivates you to work so much harder at the next tournament when you know there wont be any money in your bank account at the end of the month. Therefore perhaps football clubs should be looking at a small monthly wage and a generous bonus scheme to help motivate their players to perform better (obviously this is more a general football thing, but it could work at a club like Motherwell).

 

For what its worth though, I do agree that we will probably make the top 6 this season if we continue to play like we did against Inverness and that for me would be success.

 

Forza Motherwell!!

[The Big Man]

Can someone enlighten me? Is Flow the official mouth piece of the club? He always seems to be their main defender! If he is, surely this a away of stifling any free discussion/criticism of the club and its structures.

 

Perhaps he hasn't heard of having a conflict of interest.

 

His backside must be sore from deciding which side of the fence he sits on!

[weeyin]

I don't see a conflict of interest. 'Flow posts in his role as Fancy Dan Webmeister (or whatever it is ) on behalf of the club.

 

He has no ability (or reason) to stop anybody posting or discussing the club on this site.

[Guest 'Flow]

Indeed - and the above is my opinion first and foremost as a person and a fan which I am allowed to express!

 

There was a conflict of interests when I ran the forums but as I am sure you are aware, big man, I no longer do and Mr Gaag does!

 

Cheers

 

'Flow

[mon_da_well]

His backside must be sore from deciding which side of the fence he sits on!

 

Does 'Flow decide with his arse? I Don't see the conflict of interest at all, even though he works at the club he's just as intitled to an opinion as the rest of us surely

[gullane]

Interesting thread. All I cam take from it though is just how fickle many fans are. MMG is a good manager - not a fan. He's made a good team out of a small squad of journeymen and youngsters. Our performances this season are the result of injuries and individual loss of form. Only a club with a larger squad can ride through this. I don't see any lack of effort in the side. Sadly the confidence that was prevalent last term isn't there at present.

 

Finally - lay off Flow. I think it's great having him as a link between this forum and he club. There is only one interest amongst all - Motherwell FC.

[pete57]

This is a very interesting point... But i find myself agreeing with faddyisgod more.

 

In no way am I saying McGhee should be sacked after what he did last year. And we should be patient as I do believe this team can and will get us top 6.

 

BUT

 

I dont think the fan's need to give the manager the 'benefit of the doubt' if after lasts years performance the same manager talked himself into far better wages based on his performance over a period of 8 months. Fair enough if he was on his same contract and we were struggling at the bottom this season. But due to the fact he is now on far more I think he is well due criticism if the team aren't performing. That is unless he takes a similar pay cut this season back to last years wage if we finish near the bottom, but somehow I cant see that happening....

[wellgirl]

The "bees from the jam jar" analogy was a phrase my father used often to describe a lack of unity from players who were all over the place, forgetting dressing room logic and tactics.

I'm heartened by all comments, which defend Mr McGhee, and his calm, measured responses , and I agree that jumping up and down on the sidelines does not a better manager make.

Passion for the Club..??..there seems to be a general consensus that Mr McGhee is doing a good job under a certain amount of pressure at the moment....

Everyone can do a job...but there are jobs that require fire in the belly, the extra mile, the er....what's that magic word....passion.

There have been previous managers who did the job for which they were paid, but injected the common touch of personal interest, and familial unity amongst players and club officials. This would have set the Dossers apart from the rest....and has previously encouraged a family and inclusive atmosphere at Fir Park which continues to endure. Mr McGhee is merely doing a job.

Motherwell needs more than this.....

 

 

The problems at Motherwell aren't just down to McGhee obviously. We have a club that seems to be run on a shoestring obviously because no-one wants to revisit administration. I'm not sure why McGhee going the extra mile outwith his duties would solve anything, last year it seemed to work fine. Just as the players don't need to support Motherwell to play for the club, McGhee doesn't need to have claret and amber blood to manage Motherwell.

[Faddyisgod]

Can someone enlighten me? Is Flow the official mouth piece of the club? He always seems to be their main defender! If he is, surely this a away of stifling any free discussion/criticism of the club and its structures.

 

Perhaps he hasn't heard of having a conflict of interest.

 

His backside must be sore from deciding which side of the fence he sits on!

 

I cant see a conflict of interest here at all. 'Flow is more than entitled to have his say and as we know these boards are an independent fans forum that is in no way associated with the club. I for one am pleased that 'Flow continues to post on here as he is one of the more thoughtful and intelligent posters and if we have debates like this then it can only be of benefit to both the club and this website.

[star sail]

There are two things that I think must make Mark McGhee feel a bit aggrieved at the moment. Firstly he is still getting criticised for the Hearts situation in the summer. In actual fact MM showed a degree of loyalty to the club which I think is almost unprecedented in modern times. Tommy McLean would have been at Hearts just now had it been him. Terry Butcher would be at Hearts just now had it been him. It is a minor miracle that MM did not take the Hearts job and I for one feel that he made a mistake by not taking it. At that time MM let his heart rule his head and has had nothing but stick for it ever since.

 

Secondly the attendance at FP this season has been shocking. As a rough (not quoting exact figures) idea, Aberdeen had approx 16000 at their home game against Hearts the other day. Going by current attendance MWell would have to play 4 times to match that figure, and yet there is an assumption (by some)that MWell should be sitting third in the SPL. It just does not add up. Some First Division teams like Dunfermline are getting close to Wells attendance figures at the moment.

 

That MM has defended himself recently is only natural and right. I still think he is the best manager in the SPL and we need to get behind him or we will most certainly loose him. Actually I am sure it is already too late because I am sure he his desperate to leave given the way he has been treated.

[stuwell]

There are two things that I think must make Mark McGhee feel a bit aggrieved at the moment. Firstly he is still getting criticised for the Hearts situation in the summer. In actual fact MM showed a degree of loyalty to the club which I think is almost unprecedented in modern times. Tommy McLean would have been at Hearts just now had it been him. Terry Butcher would be at Hearts just now had it been him. It is a minor miracle that MM did not take the Hearts job and I for one feel that he made a mistake by not taking it. At that time MM let his heart rule his head and has had nothing but stick for it ever since.

 

Secondly the attendance at FP this season has been shocking. As a rough (not quoting exact figures) idea, Aberdeen had approx 16000 at their home game against Hearts the other day. Going by current attendance MWell would have to play 4 times to match that figure, and yet there is an assumption (by some)that MWell should be sitting third in the SPL. It just does not add up. Some First Division teams like Dunfermline are getting close to Wells attendance figures at the moment.

 

That MM has defended himself recently is only natural and right. I still think he is the best manager in the SPL and we need to get behind him or we will most certainly loose him. Actually I am sure it is already too late because I am sure he his desperate to leave given the way he has been treated.

 

got to agree with you on the points you make and although it is correct that MM will (probably) jump at the next decent job that he is offered, while he is here i think that both he and the team should be backed to get us out of the position we are in and back up the table to a position where I believe they are more than able to achieve (given their combined talents) - namely in the top six.

 

As I've said before, heres to a better second half of the season.

 

'mon the 'well!