steelboy Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 trust me, considering we had been knocked out the cups twice at love street and lost two massive games at fir park in the league in recent years no one was expecting an easy time last night. you've hit the nail on the head with your second point though. we appear to put more emphasis on sticking to gannon's philosophy than actually trying to win games which is annoying. i don't think anyone really feels the players let us down as individuals last night, it's more a sense of frustration that we were less than the sum of our parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 It's clear JG is a "change formation to suit each match" type of manager, we're just going to have to like that or lump it. New manager with a new team and he'll be trying different formations/players etc to see what works and what doesn't for the players he has available. Maybe last night's formation was a wee experiment to see how they'd do - clearly backfired, mind, but I'd rather it was done in the cup than in the bread and butter league games. Of course, it helps not to be fitting square pegs into round holes as he is doing with Craigan. Clearly, Gannon like players who have pace and can use the ball wisely - that's simply not Craigan's game and never has been. It's unfortunate, but with a new manager/way of doing things coming to a club then there are bound to be the occasional square peg/round hole scenario, even if it is with a highly popular player like big Craigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Div - Fair play to you for coming on here and contributing but I have to take exception to a couple of points in your post. You mention in your first post that we weren't that bad and then go on to mention how cheaply we gave the ball away. We were our own worst enemy last night. The turning point might have been the missed chance from Jutkiewicz but even had he put it away and we got a bit of confidence, I'm sure we'd have been equally guilty of repeating the mistakes we were making. I don't think we've any devine right to beat St. Mirren but you have to accept that to be successful then you have to beat the teams around you. St Mirren are definitely maturing into life in the SPL but I think it says more about the quality of top-flight scottish football than anything else. Jim Gannon has given us a fresh outlook and many Well fans have got carried away in what we're capable of achieving but I'm afraid we'll achieve hee haw if we perform the way we did last night. St Mirren wanted the result more last night and got rewarded for it but it shouldn't stop our fans from wanting to beat anyone and especially against a St Mirren team who threw a 2 goal lead away against us on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burn_Broomfield Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I3) I think that there is a huge amount of disrespect on here for how far St.Mirren have progressed as a football team. We're not world beaters by any means, but some of you seem to have just thought 'Well would turn up and win. Saints are maturing into a decent side Lets not go too far and paint St Mirren as the next Falkirk. St Mirren play to their strengths, which involves harrying and hassling in midfield and mainly kick and rush from back to front up to Mehmet. It not pretty and would erode away my enthusiasm to watch it very quickly as it did when Malpas was our gaffer. St Mirren's main decent midfielder is Dorman as has been said many times, Murray is just a hatchet man with limited ability and McGinn isn't too hot either. Fair play to St Mirren, their tactics are working for now and they are on a decent run, especially in getting the monkey off their back by winning at home in the league. At the end of the day, I would happily let Gannon make his mistakes in the League Cup where it means nothing in a diddy cup than doing it in the League or Scottish Cup where it really matters. He'll learn from the many mistakes he's made in the last 2 games and hopefully get the right team out against Hearts on Saturday when we get back to the serious business. Unfortunatley for Craigan, his return has coincided with us shipping 6 goals amid completely shambolic defensive performances, I think he will find himself returned to the bench for this weekends match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 To counter your three points, 1. I would expect a striker to score from where he was however the ball bounced and he could not take a touch as the ball would have reached Gallacher before he could get a second one - was a harder chance than it looked. However it is a total over reaction from some of our fans. You'd think we'd been relegated. 2. Correct. The reason it beat us was because St Mirren are the only team we have played who have harried us and forced us to pass it more quickly in defence and our defenders are not good enough to do it. I don't know (nor do I care) if St Mirren normally play like that but MacPherson saw the weakness and went for it and executed it pretty well also. 3. I don't think everybody expected to go to St Mirren score a couple of early ones and get the cigars out. However if we are good enough to draw with both the Old Firm we are good enough to beat every other team in Scotland. If we'd gone and lost 2-1 in a cracking end to end cup tie. Motherwell fans' concern is Motherwell and with the players we have and the way we have been playing we should not be losing 3-0 to anybody in Scotland. I doubt you'd find many Motherwell fans who would argue that we were lucky on Saturday and were deservedly beaten last night (though I thought 3-0 was a generous gloss). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 you've hit the nail on the head with your second point though. we appear to put more emphasis on sticking to gannon's philosophy than actually trying to win games which is annoying. I think the winning will come with time, steelboy. It's till early doors as the old cliche goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellTiliDie Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I'm a St.Mirren fan and came on to read the thoughts of the Motherwell fans after the last couple of games. I think three things stand out for me from the comments I've read; 1) Motherwell weren't that bad last night. The main turning point in the game was the miss by Jutkiewicz just a few minutes into the second half. He really should have scored and if he had I think we'd have seen a very different game. I think some of you are being a bit harsh on what is a young side that has effectively been completely rebuilt in a short space of time. 2) From what I saw on Saturday, and last night, Motherwell's main problem is their ability to lose possession. There seems to be far too much fannying around with the ball, particularly at the back, with no real purpose to it other than to inevitably losing possession. I haven't seen a team give the ball away as cheaply all season. 3) I think that there is a huge amount of disrespect on here for how far St.Mirren have progressed as a football team. We're not world beaters by any means, but some of you seem to have just thought 'Well would turn up and win. Saints are maturing into a decent side and Motherwell have no divine right to win games such as last night ! As you say all that fannying around at the back eventually leads to fuck all and we were lucky on Saturday not to concede from it. I think St Mirren are a decent side and will probably take points off us in every game this season. I would take Mehmet and Higdon any day of the week up front rather than the numpties we've got at our disposal. Dorman is a class act and makes the team tick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I think the problem with such a young side is you will get bullied and kicked and harassed by clubs with more experienced pro's. St.Mirren are certainly a big and physical side these days and we will almost certainly struggle for goals more this coming Saturday against Hamilton, also a big physical side, than we did the last two games with Motherwell. We do have some class in Andy Dorman, and I'd counter the post above that says Stephen McGinn is rubbish as he has been in superb form this season. We still have Dargo to come into that side and he gives us something a bit different. I still think we are pretty average when all said and done though. In this day and age though average is quite good ! I'd say of the six goals we did score against Motherwell, three of them were a tad fortunate. The deflection for the second goal last night, the own goal, and the third one on Saturday. We won't carry that luck for long and I'm sure we'll be back down to earth with a bump this weekend. Great support through last night by the way, first team to sell out the away stand other than the ugly sisters of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I think the winning will come with time, steelboy. It's till early doors as the old cliche goes. hopefully it will. i think everyone knows we're a work in progress and i do believe we're onto to a good thing. my very first words in the thread are that i'm not bothered about getting beat, what does bother me is the way we played. gannon's choices were mystifying last night and if it was mcghee last season who did that or butcher or malpas folk would be flipping their lid. there's no possible justification for some of his decisions last night which is worrying. it'll be interesting to see how we go on saturday. he seems loath to start with a 4-4-2 even although we played our best football with it and he switches to it every time we need a goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I'd say of the six goals we did score against Motherwell, three of them were a tad fortunate. The deflection for the second goal last night, the own goal, and the third one on Saturday. The first goal lastnight where Ruddy actually got to it, only for it to sneak just over the line wasn't fortunate?? Or Ross not getting a second yellow for the blatant proffessional foul on Jim O'Brian? The abuse O'Brian took from that stand after he was fouled was unbelievable. He nut megged Ross, was clean through, there was no reason to dive. It either shows the nature of the football fan, or St Mirren fan in general. Im not sure which. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I think the problem with such a young side is you will get bullied and kicked and harassed by clubs with more experienced pro's. St.Mirren are certainly a big and physical side these days and we will almost certainly struggle for goals more this coming Saturday against Hamilton, also a big physical side, than we did the last two games with Motherwell. you're right we've got no one in our team who's capable of mixing it with the more physical players in the spl. last season we won the fair play award but we still had guys like quinn, klimpl, lasley and even clarky in the team who could give it out when need be. i don't think it's necessarily due to our youth either, butcher had a young team in 2002/03 and they kicked fucked of anything that moved. PosTeam R Y FCon FWon 1Dundee United3-17-154-106 2Hibernian1-18-142-103 3Hamilton Academical0-14-123-123 4Rangers3-18-121-113 5Falkirk0-19-118-120 6St Mirren2-11-117-110 7Aberdeen0-14-117-103 8Celtic1-14-115-129 9Hearts1-16-114-117 10Kilmarnock1-15-109-111 11St Johnstone0-20-109-97 12Motherwell0-9-75-137 that makes staggering reading. the least amount of cards, we've committed 34 less fouls than the next nearest team and been fouled the most (8 more than celtic!). the team directly above us in the league (dundee united) have committed double the amount of fouls we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 The first goal lastnight where Ruddy actually got to it, only for it to sneak just over the line wasn't fortunate?? No. Letting our centre forward get a free header from the penalty spot meant you got what you deserved there I'm afraid. Or Ross not getting a second yellow for the blatant proffessional foul on Jim O'Brian? The abuse O'Brian took from that stand after he was fouled was unbelievable. He nut megged Ross, was clean through, there was no reason to dive. It either shows the nature of the football fan, or St Mirren fan in general. Im not sure which. He wasn't being booed because of Jack Ross flooring him on the touchline. That challenge was worthy of a booking. He was hardly "clean through" . He was booed because of the comments he made about the St.Mirren support in the media following Saturday's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 No. Letting our centre forward get a free header from the penalty spot meant you got what you deserved there I'm afraid. the first goal deflected in off hutchison i'm sure. i think it hit him on the chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 No. Letting our centre forward get a free header from the penalty spot meant you got what you deserved there I'm afraid. He wasn't being booed because of Jack Ross flooring him on the touchline. That challenge was worthy of a booking. He was hardly "clean through" . He was booed because of the comments he made about the St.Mirren support in the media following Saturday's game. He nut megged him, was past him, no-one in front of him only to be pulled down by ross. Clean through. His comments were accurate though."But there is a temptation to remonstrate with them especially when you see grown men shouting abuse and slabbering all over their face." Not really Jims fault if your fans take exception to the truth is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Can't comment on how it went in as I was too far away to see properly but suffice to say, if you let a centre forward get a free header in the box from a free kick, you're asking for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 He nut megged him, was past him, no-one in front of him only to be pulled down by ross. Clean through. Well there is no such offence in the game as a "professional foul" so you'd need to argue that a player 45 yards from goal, standing right on the touchline, was denied "a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity". I'd suggest not, hence why Jack Ross wasn't red carded. It was a good booking to take for sure, and don't tell me you've never seen a Motherwell player take a card for the team ! His comments were accurate though."But there is a temptation to remonstrate with them especially when you see grown men shouting abuse and slabbering all over their face." Quite. I am sure we are the only football supporters in the world who abuse the players in the opposing team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 motherwell were shite end of. ruddy should have saved the first i reckon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Football Club Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well there is no such offence in the game as a "professional foul" so you'd need to argue that a player 45 yards from goal, standing right on the touchline, was denied "a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity". You love yer Wikipedia in Paisley dont ye? It doesn't matter how far away from goal you are really. If you are through on goal with other players totally unmarked on the other side of the park then that is a goal scoring oppertunity and a 'Professional Foul.' You've made some good posts but don't go using Wikipedia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postiejim Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Gus MacPherson deserves some credit he got the better of Malpass [not to difficult mind you],he got the better of McGhee, and so far this season has totally outsmarted Gannon. If we take a humping by Hearts on Saturday Jimbo better take cover well fans rightly or wrongly aint the most patient of fans thats for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 You love yer Wikipedia in Paisley dont ye? It doesn't matter how far away from goal you are really. If you are through on goal with other players totally unmarked on the other side of the park then that is a goal scoring oppertunity and a 'Professional Foul.' You've made some good posts but don't go using Wikipedia. I've not been near Wikipedia in months, honest guv ! Nothing I've said is untrue. The offence has be stopping a clear goalscoring opportunity and I'm afraid 45 yards out on the touchline doesn't fall into that category. Ask yourself why there hasn't been any mention of this incident in any of the press reports of the game ? It wasn't in the least bit controversial, that's why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Football Club Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 But it was an obvious goal scoring opportunity. I think the point is that he wasn't booked, if we're talking about the same challange, which would have resulted in a red card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Gannon got it completely wrong last night, but there are a few players who just haven't performed in the last two matches. Both Coke & Hateley look out of form, Craigan has been dreadful, on Saturday Forbes looked like he was beginning to believe his own hype, Moutaouakil's positioning is still awful and Murphy has been poor. Our central midfield area was originally very good, but it seems to be stagnating. It's about time Gannon shook things up by giving Jennings a proper chance and bringing Lasley back into the fold, at the same time reminding Coke, Hateley & Forbes that they aren't automatic picks. I'd like to see numerous changes for the Hearts game on Saturday, and I'd go with: Ruddy Saunders -- Reynolds -- Hutchison -- Hammell Humphrey -- Jennings -- Lasley -- O'Brien Sutton -- Jutkiewicz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 What Jay said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albi Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 But it was an obvious goal scoring opportunity. No it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Football Club Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 So charging towards their goal with double the attackers that there were defenders wasnt an obvious goal scoring opportunity? Aye ok, you're a dragon, what do you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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