Malky79 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Got to agree with the guy's argument. Time was when teams played 4-2-4 and 4-3-3 then Alf Ramsay came along and won the World Cup with 4-4-2 and people bemoaned this for long enough for only playing 2 forwards. Now we have 4-5-1 (and variations thereon) and are reduced to only 1 forward. Its difficult (to say the least) to argue against the fact that the accent has now gone firmly to not losing games of football. Yes we all want to see out team winning but surely we want a bit of entertainment too. Think you'll find it was the Brazilians that innovated the 4-4-2 system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Think you'll find it was the Brazilians that innovated the 4-4-2 system. Not at all the 4-4-2 system was first introduced by Alf Ramsay in the build up to 66 and were commonly called the "wingless wonders" The Brazilian team of the 50's and early 60's were the instigators of the 4-2-4 formation and the development of 4-3-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 4-5-1 is okay if you have the right players. big lukas looks like he could do the job as the lone striker but our problem is we don't have any midfielders in the central 3 who are naturally going to get up and support the striker. add in the fact that neither o'brien or humprey are goal scorers and that murphy is ineffective played out wide then it has to be 4-4-2 until we've got the players who can make a 4-5-1 work. by my rough count in the spl we've played 4-5-1 for 605 minutes and scored 4 goals compared to playing 4-4-2 for 385 minutes and scoring ten goals (9 with jamie murphy on the park). it's clear we're much more likely to score with two strikers even if you discount the games against the old firm. we also haven't scored from open play with the 4-5-1 at all. defensively we've lost 6 goals with 4-5-1 and 5 with 4-4-2. so with 4-4-2 we're outscoring the opposition 2:1 and with 4-5-1 we're being outscored 2:3. it's pretty clear what we should be playing most of the time, obviously away against the old firm and for closing out games 4-5-1 has it's place but against the rest of the teams in the league we have nothing to fear and should go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous Wee Grafter Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Following on fae The Fox's moans about the gid auld days ....Ah miss having a Quenchy cup, Macaroon bar, a greasy pie on a cold winter's night and an atmosphere at Fir Park....feck this challenging fir Europe pish and get it sorted MFC or i'm following Royal Albert fae noo on!!! PS.. plus you can stand at their games!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Jim O Brien is the only wide player at Motherwell who is a regular starter that is a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Each to their own opinion. I have never supported Motherwell because I expected them to go on an all out attack and win or lose games by a few goals each time. I would still support them if they were bottom of the 3rd division. Obviously I would like us to win more games and see more exciting football - who wouldn't? But given the mess that we were left in the summer after Muttley jumped ship - I am pretty pleased with where we are right now - CIS cup game being the notable exception. Fox - if you want to see the football you dream about or perhaps believe you are entitled to see - then it is quite incredulous to believe you will find it in junior football!!! Short of going to the Emirates every second week then I am afraid you sound like you would be disappointed pretty much anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 This place is fuckin' nuts fatcalf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1 Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 This place is fuckin' nuts fatcalf It certainly is and if you dont agree that Jim Obrien is an effective winger and we've been cutting teams open week in week out the loonies will ship ye off to Hartwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 It certainly is and if you dont agree that Jim Obrien is an effective winger and we've been cutting teams open week in week out the loonies will ship ye off to Hartwood I know - bring back Paul Kinnaird and Gordon Mair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldel Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 So we've only played well in half a game this season. That's good going Youse are spoilt, no question about it. Not too long ago we feared the worst for this season but now you have to pick holes cos we're not quite as bad as you expected us to be. Moan for the sake of fucking moaning. Get real for fuck's sake. Afuckinmen to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faddythedaddy Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Thought this thread was going to be about Kylie Minogue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 It certainly is and if you dont agree that Jim Obrien is an effective winger and we've been cutting teams open week in week out the loonies will ship ye off to Hartwood Jim O Brien has had good games this season . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Not at all the 4-4-2 system was first introduced by Alf Ramsay in the build up to 66 and were commonly called the "wingless wonders" The Brazilian team of the 50's and early 60's were the instigators of the 4-2-4 formation and the development of 4-3-3. Cheers Ernie. Good to see somebody who knows how football tactics evolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Ramsey actually played 4-3-3 for a number of games in the 1966 World Cup. He used 4-4-2 much more when he was the Ipswich boss. Of course, he became famous for 4-4-2 because one the games he used it in was the World Cup final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky79 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Not at all the 4-4-2 system was first introduced by Alf Ramsay in the build up to 66 and were commonly called the "wingless wonders" The Brazilian team of the 50's and early 60's were the instigators of the 4-2-4 formation and the development of 4-3-3. Maybe it was the playing of a back 4 I was thinking off but I can't be bothered going to look it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinkydink Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 It was a Russian coach who introduced 4-4-2, Victor Mazlov of Dynamo Kiev. According to Jonathan Wilson's book Inverting the Pyramid anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Just another old man who knows nothing about football and longs for the days of 5 upfront and "inside lefts" whatever the fuck they were. on a note with old folk 3-2-5 formations. When i was in primary 7 ('95ish) a guy took our fitba team and he decided to play this formation. to be fair it worked quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Today in the second half we were playing with 0 up front! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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