WishyWell Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 That word allegedly... It's journalistic-ese for "gonnae no' sue me..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 For all LDCs efforts, the football club is in major financial trouble. They could be out of business very soon. No wages for players (again) Could that mean we swoop in for McPake to free up a wage..? Wouldn't mind that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Could that mean we swoop in for McPake to free up a wage..? Wouldn't mind that... He's off to Coventry, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 That word allegedly... The developer knows the constraints of Dalziel Drive and their requirement is to have the land the 'Ark is housed upon to open up the development. The college work hand in hand with the club in varying matters and yes the college would want to maximise potential prior to their move, to this one though, I believe to be development lead and answered similarly in the second post above. If its about Dalziel Drive then surely Fir Park School would have to be involved as its in between Fir Park and the College. If the above is the case in that a developer wants Fir Park then we'll get more cash by sitting tight until the developer really needs the land at Fir Park to get planning permission for the college site. I doubt the Dalziel Drive entrance is the major constraint of any development. It would be fairly easy to sort out by installing a roundabout. Exiting onto Windmillhill Street (especially trying to exit right towards Wishy) is really the major constraint to any development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 He's off to Coventry, no? Oh aye, I'd forgotten that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishyWell Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 If its about Dalziel Drive then surely Fir Park School would have to be involved as its in between Fir Park and the College. I think the Ark shares a boundary with the college where the college-owned Firtrees Nursery buildings are. Also, I have a feeling Fir Park school was to be relocated under the schools modernization programme, although I'm not sure if that proposal ever went through. It's a good point about sitting tight, especially till the housing market improves, but I am told one big site would also have been a valuable asset, especially at the time of the sale. Anyway, water under the bridge now - hope we can maximize the situation we are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFCGMFC Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 What does that actually mean? Do you mean the full Ravenscraig development? Do you mean an MFC stadium on Ravenscraig? Do you mean the demolition of the old steelworks? Just seems a pointless post in it's unexplained state. if you read my post you will see it says "..will see the ravenscraig completely finished" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 If its about Dalziel Drive then surely Fir Park School would have to be involved as its in between Fir Park and the College. If the above is the case in that a developer wants Fir Park then we'll get more cash by sitting tight until the developer really needs the land at Fir Park to get planning permission for the college site. I doubt the Dalziel Drive entrance is the major constraint of any development. It would be fairly easy to sort out by installing a roundabout. Exiting onto Windmillhill Street (especially trying to exit right towards Wishy) is really the major constraint to any development. This will be the same Fir Park school which is ear-marked to move to a new joint campus with Cathedral Primary at 'the Stadium' off Milton Street. With regards Dalziel Drive, it's been a bone of contention for the college boards and no doubt local residents long before any new development was discussed, but, I'm sure they'll be glad to know it's as easy as installing a roundabout. My information was from a senior source at the college. Exiting onto Windmillhill Street and turning right for Wishaw especially will be less of a trauma when the the dual carriageway is extended from Airbles Road towards Orbiston Street eventually crossing over the West Coast Main Line linking what will then become the main spine to Wishaw from the proposed Ravenscraig development. Won't happen overnight, but, the existing layout we have at that locale will bear no resemblance to the proposed wether the 'Ark is located on Fir Park Street or not. For me? The largest brownfield site of its kind in Europe, embrace it, and please, please let the board tap into its resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyDefault Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 if you read my post you will see it says "..will see the ravenscraig completely finished" If you read my post - you'd have seen what I mean too. B) Currently its all plans, proposals and work in progress as far as i can tell only accounts for a percentage of the entire site. It's a really simplistic statement to make making no accounts for the changes and alterations that occur at the embryonic stage of any development. if you look at any of the current proposed outlines available - there are no 20,000 seater footbal stadiums - but obviously parties are talking about them i'm also sure there are no plans for anything on a percentage of the land - it may be deliberately that way at present. So when you say completely - what do you actually mean? How long is a piece of string? You could supply a checklist right now of everything that's gonna be on the site - nothing on the list will be dropped off or altered and nothing will be added? Is that what you're saying? It's very very early days for the ravenscraig development that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWilson (Anchorman) Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 ...It's very very early days for the ravenscraig development that's all. Can 16 years after the closure really be considered "very very early"? (Not having a pop, just asking folks opinions) Can't help but think the whole project, to date, has been a monumental fuck-up. Granted, the original decontamination program was always going to take years, but the lack of real progress in my opinion has been staggering. If rumours are to believed, there are still serious contamination issues which will hamper further development. I might be being unfair in the extreme here, but it's hard to imagine another local council (and associated contractors) that could have made a bigger arse of this than NLC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyDefault Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Can 16 years after the closure really be considered "very very early"? (Not having a pop, just asking folks opinions) Can't help but think the whole project, to date, has been a monumental fuck-up. Granted, the original decontamination program was always going to take years, but the lack of real progress in my opinion has been staggering. If rumours are to believed, there are still serious contamination issues which will hamper further development. I might be being unfair in the extreme here, but it's hard to imagine another local council (and associated contractors) that could have made a bigger arse of this than NLC... Very True & I agree with you 100%, but that wasn't exactly what my post was about - everybody knows that its taken the powers that be a criminal amount of time to get going (i mentioned in my earlier post that South Lanarkshire and West Lothian on either side have NLC trailing in their wake). So we're 16 yrs down the road - but the plans for what will be on that site are anything but concrete - i assume for countless reasons, poor foresight, red tape, fight for funding, investment elsewhere, football clubs dragging their feet, decontamination! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 So we're 16 yrs down the road - but the plans for what will be on that site are anything but concrete - i assume for countless reasons, poor foresight, red tape, fight for funding, investment elsewhere, football clubs dragging their feet, decontamination! Its difficult to make a "concrete" plan for this site due to the size of it. There are areas within the site which are marked for a specific usage. These will be subject to minimal change. As for the final plans of what will be built in these areas then these will naturally be subject to change. Since Ravenscraig will mainly become developer led (after the initial burst of public sector investment) then all plans will be flexible to meet the costs and needs of the developer. This does present an opportunity which the club can take advantage of as while there's no dedicated football stadium at present, I don't see any reason why the masterplan can't be changed to include one or why the plans for a community stadium can't be altered to suit the clubs needs. Like most I'm disappointed its taken 16+ years before something is finally starting to happen to the site but I don't think its through any real failure from NLC. NLC have been behind the project all the way (much to the detriment of the local town centres in the area!). The contimination was a huge issue and the only real blame on any delay should be aimed towards Land Security over their legal bids over concern that Hamilton/East Kilbride shopping centres will suffer because of Ravenscraig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyDefault Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Its difficult to make a "concrete" plan for this site due to the size of it. There are areas within the site which are marked for a specific usage. These will be subject to minimal change. As for the final plans of what will be built in these areas then these will naturally be subject to change. Since Ravenscraig will mainly become developer led (after the initial burst of public sector investment) then all plans will be flexible to meet the costs and needs of the developer. This does present an opportunity which the club can take advantage of as while there's no dedicated football stadium at present, I don't see any reason why the masterplan can't be changed to include one or why the plans for a community stadium can't be altered to suit the clubs needs. Like most I'm disappointed its taken 16+ years before something is finally starting to happen to the site but I don't think its through any real failure from NLC. NLC have been behind the project all the way (much to the detriment of the local town centres in the area!). The contimination was a huge issue and the only real blame on any delay should be aimed towards Land Security over their legal bids over concern that Hamilton/East Kilbride shopping centres will suffer because of Ravenscraig. Honestly - I'm fully aware of all this and agree - it's all well documented. Did I not almost say exactly what you said across my posts. FFS, I only asked one guy "what does Ravenscraig being completely finished" actually mean? For numerous reasons tho - the objection process aside SLC & WLC have whupped our ass in terms of inward investment, development and jobs - stevie wonder touring the country on a motorbike can see that. I really hope that NLC can redress the balance and also that MFC can pull something out of the hat in terms of a decent new build stadium (whatever that is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Slightly off topic but.... ........ everybody knows that its taken the powers that be a criminal amount of time to get going (i mentioned in my earlier post that South Lanarkshire and West Lothian on either side have NLC trailing in their wake)....... Got to agree with you regarding the "criminal amount of time to get going" but if my understanding of things are correct then two things contributed to this more than inept councillers or council (although I'm not saying they are entirly blameless). 1. When the 'Craig closed and the land was made available for redevelopment, where as SLC and WLC were developing on farming land, NLC were looking at having to decontaminate the 'craig - something which I believe is still ongoing. This process put us a few years behind the other councils. 2. South lanarkshire council have tried to block most of the proposed uses of the ravenscraig site and have make NLC jump through hoops to get where they are as they tried to protect both Hamilton and EK from people and business locating at ravenscraig. Over the years I've heard many different ideas for the redevelopment of Ravenscraig, including a technology park and campus for both Glasgow and St Andrews Universities - none of which have came to much. We now appear to be at a point where building work is starting and the one thing that I believe the council should insist on no matter who builds what, is that the developers must use local labour, giving the people of the area the chance of employment first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyDefault Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Slightly off topic but.... Got to agree with you regarding the "criminal amount of time to get going" but if my understanding of things are correct then two things contributed to this more than inept councillers or council (although I'm not saying they are entirly blameless). 1. When the 'Craig closed and the land was made available for redevelopment, where as SLC and WLC were developing on farming land, NLC were looking at having to decontaminate the 'craig - something which I believe is still ongoing. This process put us a few years behind the other councils. I know! - however just playing devils advocate - is there no farmland in North Lanarkshire? is the Ravenscraig site the be all and end all for NLC? Surely NLC could have been doing something when the other two were getting there arse in gear? 2. South lanarkshire council have tried to block most of the proposed uses of the ravenscraig site and have make NLC jump through hoops to get where they are as they tried to protect both Hamilton and EK from people and business locating at ravenscraig. I know! - I mentioned the objections and WLC were at it to! Over the years I've heard many different ideas for the redevelopment of Ravenscraig, including a technology park and campus for both Glasgow and St Andrews Universities - none of which have came to much. I know - I heard that as well - it was in the papers. We now appear to be at a point where building work is starting and the one thing that I believe the council should insist on no matter who builds what, is that the developers must use local labour, giving the people of the area the chance of employment first. I know, Great idea, local builders, local everything possible - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Can I just ask what the hell West Lothain Council have done? They have done nothing! The only reason Livingston is around and still going is because West Lothian Council have been forced to by a contract they signed in 1995 with LDC. Take a look at the state of Broxburn, Bathgate, Linlithgow, South Queensferry etc to see how great West Lothian Council. You give to much credit too WLC! The useless fuckers that they are. The worst thing to happen is NLC have been put in charge of Ravenscraig. Should have been a private firm, like what happened to Livingston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that hat Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Can I just ask what the hell West Lothain Council have done? They have done nothing! But it is the best council in 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Dinnie even get me started on that fucking joke award Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkySuperSub Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Dinnie even get me started on that fucking joke award Bet NLC were bealin' when they got it though...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyDefault Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Can I just ask what the hell West Lothain Council have done? They have done nothing! The only reason Livingston is around and still going is because West Lothian Council have been forced to by a contract they signed in 1995 with LDC. Take a look at the state of Broxburn, Bathgate, Linlithgow, South Queensferry etc to see how great West Lothian Council. You give to much credit too WLC! The useless fuckers that they are. The worst thing to happen is NLC have been put in charge of Ravenscraig. Should have been a private firm, like what happened to Livingston. I honestly canny believe this fucking thread! Maybe I am giving WLC too much credit - FFS get a fucking grip and shoot me will you. Maybe I've mixed up a WLC with an LDC or a PMT or something like that somewhere along the line. Truth is this - more punters go to work in Livingston (or Hamilton / EK) than in Motherwell or Wishaw or any of the other North Lanarkshire towns. And if anybody argues with that they are just pure mental in the heid. 'South Lanarkshire' and 'West Lothian' as counties in terms iof geographic location - whether its the councils, the BBs, The Brownies, The Development Bodies, The KKK, the Kaiser Chiefs of The Church of Scientology or whoever are responsible - have provided a far bigger bang for the buck job's wise than anything that's apparent to me in North Lanarkshire. The main reason that I mentioned West Lothian - is that while they were piling jobs and development into Livingston ant its surrounding area and hacking away at the greenbelt and the red tape to allow it to happen (look at the Heartlands development as well) - at the same time they were complaining to the Scottish Government about the Ravenscraig Development. Thats why I mentioned West Lothian Now fuck off and argue with some bastard that disagrees with you FFS One last thing - can I just say I'm an ex steelworker - Clyde Alloy and Clydesdale tubeworks - stayed in North Lanarkshire virtually all my life and would dearly love to see the Ravenscraig Development (and anything else 'North Lanarkshire' could muster up) work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 The main reason that I mentioned West Lothian - is that while they were piling jobs and development into Livingston ant its surrounding area and hacking away at the greenbelt and the red tape to allow it to happen (look at the Heartlands development as well) - at the same time they were complaining to the Scottish Government about the Ravenscraig Development. Actually West Lothian Council didn't put their name to the Appeal to the Scottish Government regarding the 2007 Ravenscraig Development decision. South Lanarkshire Council, Glasgow City, Mothewell and Wishaw Town Planning something or other etc did though. But hey, rant away my friend, rant away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Bet NLC were bealin' when they got it though...!! dunno, NLC were providing all the tech expertise for the event even though it was held in bishopbriggs, so did quite well out of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyDefault Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Actually West Lothian Council didn't put their name to the Appeal to the Scottish Government regarding the 2007 Ravenscraig Development decision. South Lanarkshire Council, Glasgow City, Mothewell and Wishaw Town Planning something or other etc did though. But hey, rant away my friend, rant away! I just did you fucking pillock I'm sure I seen it reported at the time on both TV and printed media. However looks like I've slipped up again. good for you mate, good for you! (at least I can read a thread on a discussion forum and understand the points that people are making tho) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Football Club Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 If we move, we move. Hope we do In my life time when that Irish Consortium buys us with Nazi Gold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFCGMFC Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 FFS, I only asked one guy "what does Ravenscraig being completely finished" actually mean? lol mate i thought you were having a pop at me lol i dont think any of us on this board will ever see the ravenscraig completed with every part of it covered by something; houses, sports centers, gardens, roads etc as long as we can make something out of it rather it it just sitting with all those roundabouts just now then that is what we are looking for!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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