Tweed Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Fir Park is not fit for purpose. You see the money that Killie and Falkirk make from their hotels/conference facilities and the diversification that provides them and because of that teams like them will eventually leave us trailing in their wake. Add in the money we continually have to spend to maintain FP and to protect it from the elements its a huge drain of resource. I would much rather see Motherwell remain in Motherwell but I cannot see where we can do it and for me the only option for the long term good of the team is a move to Ravenscraig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I daresay no one is gonna change your mind re merits of moving to Ravenscraig. My own first choice would be a redeveloped Fir Park if it was at all possible. That doesn't seem to be the way the wind is blowing. Still when push comes to shove if and when Motherwell hitch a few hundred yard up the road to Ravenscraig will you not be following? You're right my mind won't be changed. As for following, that remains to be seen if and when it happens. Principles say no but obviously it would be hard to stop following the club after all this time. We'll see if and when it goes through. I could well be the grumpy auld baistard waving a big banner and shouting "Franchise" from the Civic Centre roof as youse all drive up the new Airbles Road flyover. Of course I recognise how old Fir Park is getting and how the club needs to continually move with the times but all this hotels and conference facilities pish does ma nut in. Still to be proven it would work for us and too much of a risk, stick to what we know, that's football. Going round in circles here, not much in the way of a convincing argument for moving still IMO and this is about the third time the topic has been brought up with probably 20 pages of guff that can't be proven until it actually happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Made Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 There is one way to look at Matt. it'll give you another book. From Fir Park to the "Craig" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Am all booked out. Nae mair ah tell thee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
du_du_dubordeaux Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I was in kilmarnock a few months ago and read in their local newspaper the kilmarnock standard that there is a hell of a lot more money coming into the club since they built the hotel and launched their own brand of sports wear which bears the year of the clubs establishment. I recon hotels, conference facilities, and added business/office space would work wherever there is other business (and thats what part of RC is supposed to be about) The initial cost would be substantial however, money that we probably dont/wont have. As for the whole franchise thing. That doesnt fly with me. Have you seen how far away ravenscraig is fae fir park? If ye moved the stadium tae north motherwell ye would be further away from the current location than if it was moved to RC. So that means that the only worry some people have is the whole concept of crossing a border into a new area. If motherwell moved their park up the road to netherton, there is no way I would stop following them (as many of our fans come from wishaw) so whats so different about RC (which in many peoples book is still motherwell) I wouldnt say I'm in total favour of a move to RC just now though as I personally have concerns about this "masterplan" ever getting finished properly. RC could either work or not work and obviously if we were to move at this point in time, we would be taking a gamble on the place turning out to be what it says its gonna be like - good chance that it won't. An extreme case would be the thing getting half finished and motherwell fc is left in a half finished brown field site for decades - which would surely reduce attendances and see us relegated. Like I said its an extreme case but its something to be considered. Whether its RC or not, we need to move out ae fir park. IMO There is no money or space to properly develop the place and we're spending more and more money every year on mending holes in the roof so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Fir Park is not fit for purpose. You see the money that Killie and Falkirk make from their hotels/conference facilities and the diversification that provides them and because of that teams like them will eventually leave us trailing in their wake. The one thing I wouldn't aim at Fir Park is it not being "fit for purpose" - its purpose is hosting fitba matches what else. Moving to Ravenscraig (which I'm neither for or against) won't give us the same platform as Killie or Falkirk as purpose built hotels and conference facilities will be built elsewhere in Ravencraig> If we move to Ravenscraig then I can see us only having a football ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Oh it is, we have more games off than anywhere else. It costs us more to protect our pitch because of that monstrosity of a stand. The East stand is falling to bits. Aye we can plod along but we will fall behind. Not saying a hotel or conference is the only way to go but we need to generate another revenue stream because everyone else is doing it and football is not generating enough result will be other clubs will have more money than us and be better equipped on the football pitch. We stay at Fir Park with no other facilities, ten years from now we will be a middling first division team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_mfc Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think we all need to stand back and have a think about this. Right now, is Fir Park in THAT bad a state? Sound system is a bit ropey, vaguely remember complaining about paint splodges on the steps(c'mon tae fuck), and the pitch could be doing with a bit of an overhaul. However as a stadia, it is fit for purpose, and I see little evidence of it "crumbling". we have a davie cooper and away stand that have barely been up 15 years, with excellent lounge and hospitality facilities. Obviously the main stand and east stand will need work on a ongoing basis, however i don't believe they are in that much of a state of dis-repair that we should be building a new ground. IMHO our ground is no where near as bad as Love Street, Brockville etc. As much as the idea of moving to a brand spanking new ORIGINAL stadium that will do our club justice and will encourage thousands of newcomers along to the 'Ark mark II, the reality of what we will end up with is much different. Just imagine yourself in a carbon copy of St Mirrens stadium with claret and amber seats in the middle of a wasteground in ten years. You will be longing for the walk through the pish at the back of the east stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ravenscraig is synonymous with Motherwell and its surrounding areas, they might be trying to market it as a new town (cause lets face it, Motherwell isn't an attractive prospect) but for all intents and purposes Ravenscraig IS Motherwell and if we were to move there it would be very fitting, given the towns history, hell we even get nicknames in connection with the old Steelworks. As someone else said, saying Ravenscraig isn't Motherwell is like saying North Motherwell isn't Motherwell, or Forgewood isn't Motherwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Right now, is Fir Park in THAT bad a state? Sound system is a bit ropey, vaguely remember complaining about paint splodges on the steps....the pitch could be doing with a bit of an overhaul. I'm afraid it is. I suspect the pitch would take several hundred thousand to put right. The East Stand is nowhere near fit for purpose. Cartering facilities in the East and Main Stand are totally inadequate. The sound system, although not a major item, would probably take well into 5 figures to upgrade. Hospitality facilities are outdated. The Main Stand has required major structural work and probably needs more. Need I go on. Millions needed in total I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that hat Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ravenscraig is synonymous with Motherwell and its surrounding areas Totally agree not ony can you say that Ravenscraig IS Motherwell but decades after the steelworks came down Motherwell IS Ravenscraig. As for a claret and amber Love Street in the middle of waste land complaint, having seen the location of their new ground I was most impressed with its location. So bring it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
du_du_dubordeaux Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The east stand isnt even a stand, its a covered terrace with seats added. The main stand was built in the 60's? The term fit for purpose gets used a lot, but everyones requirements for something to be "fit for purpose are different" The east stand is probably the best place to go to in fir park for atmosphere, however in the 21st century it has no place. The catering facilities are inadequate, the level at which you can see the park is inadequate, theres one entrance and one exit etc. Now although this doesnt bother me as such, it doesnt say much about where the club's ambitions lie, when teams like falkirk, stmirren etc who we are above in terms of league status, have better equipped grounds. If ye sell out a game, for instance nancy game, and theres a possibility of attracting a few more season ticket holders who decide they want to come and see us every week, its not much of an incentive if they canny get a pie n bovril in time, canny see the game for a support pole or because they need tae stand up tae see the other end of the park. People need to start realising that there are other ways of generating cash throughout the year. If the stadium is in a favourable location a bar should always attract revenue especially at weekends. Fine, forget hotels, bigger and more modern function suites will always bring in cash though. Heard somewhere that stmirren have built 5 a side parks. Again guaranteed revenue. Went to falkirk no that long back, they have a club superstore right in the heart of their town. Why have we never done anything like this? Its amazin what advertising does to people, and if youve got a club shop staring people in the face, its a great way to sell your product. Not just strips and scarves but for advertising promotional offers, special admission prices, season tickets. When boyle came in he was paying players like spencer/ goram/ brannan ridicuous sums of money and the team didnt even make europe. Millions was spent on over rated players. Think of where the club could have been if that money had have been put to good use. The PR at motherwell has always been poor, ask any season ticket holder how they've been treated with regards to being informed about club matters. It's second rate and unprofessional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwell Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 .......Went to falkirk no that long back, they have a club superstore right in the heart of their town. Why have we never done anything like this? Its amazin what advertising does to people, and if youve got a club shop staring people in the face, its a great way to sell your product. Not just strips and scarves but for advertising promotional offers, special admission prices, season tickets...... Did there not used to be a club store on brandon parade many (many) years ago but it got closed down because it wasn't making money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_M_F_C Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Did there not used to be a club store on brandon parade many (many) years ago but it got closed down because it wasn't making money? They used to use a wee unit next to chapmans around Christmas time each year. A shop up the street wouldn't be a great idea imo, the one at the stadiums close enough to the town centre that if you really want something its not too out the way. I really don't see the issues with the east stand, granted the PA is rubbish and there is an issue with the pole holding up the stand. But you can go get a warm- occaisionally tasty pie and watch the game. The Stadium is rather old fashioned in places but imo its not in any state to be called "not fit for purpose" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky79 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think if the stadium costs us as much as I led to believe it does to keep it up to current safety standards then it probably isn't fit for purpose. We spent a small fortune keeping the Main stand open already, how much more will we have to spend just to keep it as is. Would love to see the old place redeveloped from ground up but I don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The one thing I wouldn't aim at Fir Park is it not being "fit for purpose" - its purpose is hosting fitba matches what else. Moving to Ravenscraig (which I'm neither for or against) won't give us the same platform as Killie or Falkirk as purpose built hotels and conference facilities will be built elsewhere in Ravencraig> If we move to Ravenscraig then I can see us only having a football ground. Fair enough, a hotel/conference centre etc.. would be great but there may be plans for them in place at the new R/C development (might be able to giet into a partnership venture right enough) However, like we say it's purpose is for football matches and a new stadium could do that a whole lot better than FP. We could have a proper big sports bar like Shearers at St James Park, with big screens/pool tables/two floors/away section that will be mobbed on matchdays but open for Champions league nights/internationals/random Jeff stelling soccer saturday sessions when the 'well are away. Add to this a bigger 'Well shop and other retail units that we get a cut from, a family burger bar or some shit too and we are bringing in unheard of income and punters aren't even through the turnstyles yet!! As for them, there will be more than one , easy access, perfect views, 21st century catering facilities, executive boxes yada yada. It really is the only way forward and even though we WILL end up with Livi's ground (always hoped not but we will), with the new houses and a chance to increase the fan base, bringing in new fans to the new stadium, exiled 'well fans back too with perhaps a first season MAJOR cut in ST prices I think we could be increasing attendances at the new place by at least 25% WITH sustained income as highlighted above. Just a matter of time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyDefault Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think if the stadium costs us as much as I led to believe it does to keep it up to current safety standards then it probably isn't fit for purpose. We spent a small fortune keeping the Main stand open already, how much more will we have to spend just to keep it as is. Would love to see the old place redeveloped from ground up but I don't see it happening. There's no way the ground will be redeveloped - much as it would be the least traumatic option. However there's no way that we could raise the funds to carry out the work. We need to replace the main stand and the east stand isn't ideal. The thing about relocating is that you tend to get money to fund the build from selling your old site. I don't mind the idea of Ravenscraig at all - it's on the badge afterall Like many I'd like to see us doing something refreshing in terms of stadium design - however cost will be the driving factor. With the downturn etc it probably has just been delayed by a fair while tho. Unless when we're all on the bru over the next few months we all volunteer to build it to keep ourselves busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The Stadium is rather old fashioned in places but imo its not in any state to be called "not fit for purpose" That's where you and many others have it wrong. Small matter of safety certification and lists of outstanding works ever increasing with the costs ever rising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 That's where you and many others have it wrong. Small matter of safety certification and lists of outstanding works ever increasing with the costs ever rising. Fir Park is fit for purpose. Can we host a football match in it tomorrow? Of course we can. Is Fir Park financially viable in the long term - No, not in its current state. the list of reasons Onthefringes will have to be complied with in any new stadium. The only thing is that it may not be the clubs problem in the long run if we go down the same route as Falkirk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
du_du_dubordeaux Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 As was said above about sports bars etc - would be great to see something different. Fir park may be fit for a game of football but thats it. Unfortunately football post 90's is about money making and we need to be in the mix otherwise we'll get left behind big time. As far as the stadium design goes - almondvale gets a lot of stick for being a lego land etc but since it had three of its corners filled in its probably one of the better new age grounds. As has been said in this thread already, that south stand we have has done nothing for our pitch and is only full when the OF come to town (or a cup game) so scrap the idea of huge stands. Ye can talk about pish atmosphere in all these grounds till the coos come hame, but fact is if theres no fans to make an atmosphere then ye wont get one. The atmosphere at the hearts game was horrendous, if ye had closed ur eyes ye could be forgiven for thinking it was a hamilton clyde game ye were at . If these lego lands were full to capacity every week it wouldny matter a single bit whether corners are filled in or how steep the stands are etc (however for lower crowds these factors can affect the acoustics and should be looked in to - but probably wont be) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 There's no way the ground will be redeveloped - much as it would be the least traumatic option. However there's no way that we could raise the funds to carry out the work.We need to replace the main stand and the east stand isn't ideal. To replace the Main Stand & East Stand would swallow up millions. The problem with the East Stand is that physical contraints make it very difficult to improve. I suppose its a bit like deciding whether to spend £4,000 repairing your 9 year old car or buying a new one at £8,000. The current recession certainly won't help matters much though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fal_Dosser Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 To replace the Main Stand & East Stand would swallow up millions. The problem with the East Stand is that physical contraints make it very difficult to improve. I suppose its a bit like deciding whether to spend £4,000 repairing your 9 year old car or buying a new one at £8,000. The current recession certainly won't help matters much though. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I'm fairly sure that the club wanted to put a 2nd tier on the East stand (similar to that at Dumpdee Utd) a number of years ago, but were knocked back due to Knowetop school behind. MON RA DOSSERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Grew Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Just as a guide to potential costs - St Mirren's new Barr Construction stadium holds 8,000 and is reported to have cost £15 million which works out at about £1,875 per seat. The Norwegian club we are reported to have taken a trialist from recently (IK Start FC) have just spent £38 million on their new stadiumcwhich works out at about £2,657 per seat. If we do eventually get to build a new stadium I hope we get something with some design aesthetics and not a 4 box job from Barr. Something along the Livingston stadium, with all four corners filled in and a capacity of say 10,000 would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan1984 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The thing with Livingston stadium is they had 5 years to build their stadium. In year one it was only one stand (the one not attached). Then it was that one and the one across from it. Then each goal end was built. The year they thought they would get promoted (year 4) they filled in two corners to get up to 10,000 The question the board has to ask, do we need 10,000 seats? Can we get away with 8-9K. Or do we push for 10K+ and hope for a few big games more often? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_mfc Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think anything less than 10,000 would show lack of ambition by the club. This season we have had two games with attendances above the 8k mark, with atleast one old firm game against Celtic left plus a possible tie in the Scottish cup against St mirren which could, with the right pricing, attract a bumber crowd. Remember as well that we have games coming up soon that people can take a friend to for free. If we can make the top six, you can expect possibly two games that would have crowds over 8,000 if last seasons circumstances are anything to go by (which isn't that unrealistic since we are picking up points and the team in 4th gets a euro spot). now, between the nancy game and the rangers game, we had attendances of 11,318 plus 9,600 respectively (give or take a few that perhaps slipped through the net ). That means if we had 4918 people that if we were in an 8,000 seater, wouldnt get in. Say the average price for a ticket, allowing for students concessions etc is £15, that means that is almost £74k lost just in those two games. I know this is a rough figure, but it gives a fair indication at money we would lose if we had a smaller ground than 10k. I believe that if we move to ravenscraig, the club will do it with the idea of the club growing, and very much being able to tap into the resources available to them as new schools, leisure centres and communities are on their doorstep. Even if only 5% of people that will move into ravenscraig start going to Motherwell, a similar percentage to the amount of people in Motherwell that go to Fir Park current, you are talking an extra couple of thousand a week. It is quite realistic to expect that if Motherwell keep their gate prices fair, and try to get envolved with the new community as well as keeping their current supporters happy, and continue to "punch above their weight" and doing well in the league (bearing in mind 4th place will get you into the EURO cup now, very achievable with our team), there is no reason why we couldn't get home attendances of about 6-7k within the next ten years. that means that away teams would be heavily restricted to how many they could bring. In saying that, going by £1,875 a seat, for us to have an extra 3k seats to take our capacity upto 13,000 (our ideal size imo), would cost an extra 5.6 million(roughly). Whether that is an option or not remains to be seen. What everyone needs to keep in their heads is that the board or whoever will do their best for the club as a whole. As much as, of course, that means being cost affective, I think there is a difference between doing that and doing it on the cheap. The club, who despite what people think do keep an eye on the boards and different channels, will im sure know that in order to make sure the move is successful they need to have the fans support, otherwise they will have an empty stadium half a mile up the road. keep the faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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