Summer Football

[nethertonwellfan]

Nor I. But I remember last winter people saying oh it was just a one aff, extra cauld winter... this year we just didn't get the cold weather we got snow tae, added to the H&S Brigade on overdrive we had call offs across the country.

 

If the league doesn't change then the SFA will need to look at the Scottish Cup, as in what two seasons we have had 6 attempts or something to play two games. That was added to all the other attempts the Locos had to play the game the round before.

Last year it was Inverurie though that is special circumstances. If they had USH the game would have probably went ahead first time. This year was just freak. I am 27 and can't ever remember a winter like this. My dad is 53 and can only remember a winter like this once but even then not for such a prolonged period.

[numpty]

Last year it was Inverurie though that is special circumstances. If they had USH the game would have probably went ahead first time. This year was just freak. I am 27 and can't ever remember a winter like this. My dad is 53 and can only remember a winter like this once but even then not for such a prolonged period.

Nonetheless, when was the last time there was a fitba' season in Scotland with no weather-related postponements? This year is hardly the first time we've ever had this debate, so it's not just the current cold snap that's prompted it.

[nethertonwellfan]

Nonetheless, when was the last time there was a fitba' season in Scotland with no weather-related postponements? This year is hardly the first time we've ever had this debate, so it's not just the current cold snap that's prompted it.

When else and don't count the games we lost to having a shite pitch.

[LadywellToi]

Last year it was Inverurie though that is special circumstances. If they had USH the game would have probably went ahead first time. This year was just freak. I am 27 and can't ever remember a winter like this. My dad is 53 and can only remember a winter like this once but even then not for such a prolonged period.

 

OK, in your Dad's 53 years, how many games have been postponed in Dec/Jan/Feb & how many in May/Aug/Sept for any Scottish club. Is it viable for a Highland League/Junior team to install USH?

 

So do you see no merit among any of the 10 items listed in the original post? Surely it can't be the only thing you took from it is rest of us are all soft/gay for not wanting to hang about in the cold.

 

The game here is in decline, you can't argue against that. Some of us is suggesting a solution based on the three elements of weather, improving product, and revenue can't be boiled down to being a knee jerk against the past month and us being gay.

 

Also, Australia being a southern hemisphere country means Aug to Feb is their summer.

[Wellfan1984]

Also, Australia being a southern hemisphere country means Aug to Feb is their summer.

 

I knew they played summer football

[nethertonwellfan]

OK, in your Dad's 53 years, how many games have been postponed in Dec/Jan/Feb & how many in May/Aug/Sept for any Scottish club. Is it viable for a Highland League/Junior team to install USH?

 

So do you see no merit among any of the 10 items listed in the original post? Surely it can't be the only thing you took from it is rest of us are all soft/gay for not wanting to hang about in the cold.

 

The game here is in decline, you can't argue against that. Some of us is suggesting a solution based on the three elements of weather, improving product, and revenue can't be boiled down to being a knee jerk against the past month and us being gay.

 

Also, Australia being a southern hemisphere country means Aug to Feb is their summer.

Firstly I have never argued a highland league team should install USH.

 

When I said stop being pussies it was toung in cheek I didn't mean to offend you or any other advocate of summer football.

 

Scottish football , I agree 100%, is in decline but weather is not a factor in this IMO. Loads of other things like price, fanny stewards and shite product on the pitch are some of the reasons for this decline. When people tell me why they don't attend football matches anymore they never give the weather as a reason for not going.

 

And you have to admit that for alot of people the last 2 months has converted them to the summer football camp. I am not saying you personally but there is a knee jerk reaction that can't be denied. These discussions only seem to happen during the most extreme conditions.

[fatcalf]

Firstly I have never argued a highland league team should install USH.

 

When I said stop being pussies it was toung in cheek I didn't mean to offend you or any other advocate of summer football.

 

Scottish football , I agree 100%, is in decline but weather is not a factor in this IMO. Loads of other things like price, fanny stewards and shite product on the pitch are some of the reasons for this decline. When people tell me why they don't attend football matches anymore they never give the weather as a reason for not going.

 

And you have to admit that for alot of people the last 2 months has converted them to the summer football camp. I am not saying you personally but there is a knee jerk reaction that can't be denied. These discussions only seem to happen during the most extreme conditions.

Can hardly call it a knee jerk reaction when it's taken me over 40 years to come round now can you?

It might not be a reason for folks not going but you could argue that summer fitba would be a good reason to go. Anyways you never asked me why I didnae bother going tae Inverness or Inverurie last year for that matter.

[nethertonwellfan]

Can hardly call it a knee jerk reaction when it's taken me over 40 years to come round now can you?

It might not be a reason for folks not going but you could argue that summer fitba would be a good reason to go. Anyways you never asked me why I didnae bother going tae Inverness or Inverurie last year for that matter.

Fatcalf you have your reasons that I wont argue with. Afterall I was told never to argue with my elders who knew better than me

However, would summer footbal make that drastic difference that it drags Scottish football out of the abyss and bring it back to the big time ? I don't think so.

 

I couldn't make Inverness due to work commitments (thank fuck) but I made Inverurie and also went to Clachnacuddin v Stenny last season where both games were Minus 10. I got a bovril! I can never imagine asking for an Ice pole at a fitba match

[LadywellToi]

So how many call offs has the old man witnessed in winter opposed to summer?

 

When can we expect a mixture of "The Day After Tomorrow" with "2012" in a Mad Max-esque apocolypse? That's tongue in cheek too.

 

Is there any of the 10 points outlined in the first post you agree with.

 

If we stay with the status quo, do you have a solution to the deteriorating standards and interest in Scottish football.

[steelboy]

Bonus. We all think football's too expensive, so fewer games = cheaper

 

(Yes, I know, they'd probably hike the prices up even further to cover costs...)

 

i might be in the minority but me my brother and big conn enjoy going to games. in my opinion eight less games a season would be shite. i actually like watching the well.

[fatcalf]

Fatcalf you have your reasons that I wont argue with. Afterall I was told never to argue with my elders who knew better than me

However, would summer footbal make that drastic difference that it drags Scottish football out of the abyss and bring it back to the big time ? I don't think so.

 

I couldn't make Inverness due to work commitments (thank fuck) but I made Inverurie and also went to Clachnacuddin v Stenny last season where both games were Minus 10. I got a bovril! I can never imagine asking for an Ice pole at a fitba match

 

Cheeky

Don't think it would bring us into the big time, too far down the road to contemplate such a hike but I have come round to thinkiing it would make it better. Back to a 2 Division set-up would also be an improvement IMO. Past changes have not improved our game therefore we have to look at a set-up that would improve it rather than one which will benefit the Old Firm, as has been the case with almost every change in our game until now.

[numpty]

i might be in the minority but me my brother and big conn enjoy going to games. in my opinion eight less games a season would be shite. i actually like watching the well.

Me too, but given the choice, I'd still rather watch fewer, meaningful, better quality games in balmy weather, than watch us struggle to beat St. Johnstone four or five times a season in a foggy/freezing/pissing-it-down mudbath.

[nethertonwellfan]

So how many call offs has the old man witnessed in winter opposed to summer?

 

When can we expect a mixture of "The Day After Tomorrow" with "2012" in a Mad Max-esque apocolypse? That's tongue in cheek too.

 

Is there any of the 10 points outlined in the first post you agree with.

 

If we stay with the status quo, do you have a solution to the deteriorating standards and interest in Scottish football.

I agree with points 2 and 8 of your pros and all of your cons.

 

Yes I do have solutions and here they are.

 

1. The league should be made up of 2 divisions of 18 where we play each other twice a season. At the moment people are bored with Scottish football with playing the same teams, season in and season out, 4 times a season. It is far too much! Just look at the reaction the Scottish cup got although it's irrelevant now.

 

2. A proper pyramid system should be introduce which would eliminate the shite Montroses and bring in your Spartans, Cove Rangers and the like.

 

3. Have 3 teams relegated from First and 2 automatic entries to the first. Then 3-6 fight out for the last place in the top division via the Play offs. The bottom 2 in division 2 go into the non-league.

 

4. The leaue programme will have 6 lees match days than we have now. We should play the league cup o those weeks and re-introduce the group stages in the League Cup. We should regionalise it so we are in a group with Airdrie, Hamilton and Albion Rovers. Dundee, Dundee United, St Johnstone and Aberdeen etc. This will generate a bit of derby interest. IMO this will increase crowds.

 

5. All clubs if they wish should be allowed to introduce a terracing. This must be able to be done in a safe way.

 

6. All gates should have a universal charge of 15 Adults and 10 Concessions.

[DunnyMFC]

I agree with points 2 and 8 of your pros and all of your cons.

 

Yes I do have solutions and here they are.

 

1. The league should be made up of 2 divisions of 18 where we play each other twice a season. At the moment people are bored with Scottish football with playing the same teams, season in and season out, 4 times a season. It is far too much! Just look at the reaction the Scottish cup got although it's irrelevant now.

 

2. A proper pyramid system should be introduce which would eliminate the shite Montroses and bring in your Spartans, Cove Rangers and the like.

 

3. Have 3 teams relegated from First and 2 automatic entries to the first. Then 3-6 fight out for the last place in the top division via the Play offs. The bottom 2 in division 2 go into the non-league.

 

4. The leaue programme will have 6 lees match days than we have now. We should play the league cup o those weeks and re-introduce the group stages in the League Cup. We should regionalise it so we are in a group with Airdrie, Hamilton and Albion Rovers. Dundee, Dundee United, St Johnstone and Aberdeen etc. This will generate a bit of derby interest. IMO this will increase crowds.

 

5. All clubs if they wish should be allowed to introduce a terracing. This must be able to be done in a safe way.

 

6. All gates should have a universal charge of 15 Adults and 10 Concessions.

 

Would love it if it was like that

[LadywellToi]

I agree with some of your initiatives too, however most clubs outside Edinburgh and Glasgow rely on 4 visits by the Old Firm (3 if in bottom 6) to bolster their turnover. Also by dropping the price to £15 means quite a financial hit in the first few years if/until crowds build up.

 

If the money goes down on one side it has to be recouped on another and I can't see an 18 game league being any more attractive. Remember the TV companies pay a fee, can't remember what the current SPL deal is but it will diminish if there are 6 games less. They are paying for what will get them the biggest audience to sell advertising, and eating up hours. Build-up, analysis and reviewing eats up TV time and is inexpensive to churn out.

 

In our country the greatest interest is generated by Rangers and Celtic. Plus playing them less equals even less chances for revenue. Less chances the cameras will want to cover Motherwell. I just don't see your suggestions attractive to TV which makes up a huge chunk of the balance sheet.

 

I think it needs a major sea change and summer football would do that. A rejigging of the league structure diluting the SPL with 8 more up-down diddy teams isn't the answer unless the Old Firm are banished and it makes the championship that little bit more even and generate interest as fans feel they have a genuine chance of winning the league.

 

As for banishment, that's a discussion for another thread, not this one.

 

Also, you'd have to go to 4 teams and tell them they've lost league status. Don't underestimate how a local community will come together when something is threatened.

[nethertonwellfan]

The 4 teams will lose league status because they finsh in the bottom 4 so they deserve to go down.

 

I agree my proposals will lose the clubs money in the short term but I genuinely beleive this will get bums on seats and that is the most important thing in my eyes. Imagine going in to a season knowing you will have 17 places to go rather than 11. Away support will increase IMO because It will not be the same old grounds twice a season.

[LadywellToi]

Rangers are on the ropes financially, Kilmarnock too, we had accountants running things recently, where is the finance to allow for the loss in revenue? Naive business acumen will lead to a 18 team league and ignore TV revenue. Am I more inclined to visit Dens Park because I haven't been there for 4 seasons, nope.

[wunderwell]

I think that the problem on this forum is that a vast majority are there every week in the rain/cold in summer or winter and will always support the club. We need though to encourage families back into the ground and at -2 that is going to be harder. People say we have bad summers which is true but at least its 15 degrees warmer!

 

Comfort is a big factor I would reckon in the floating attendee. Would you go to the cinema if it was baltic and a shite film? So better conditions, better product is what I would be after and that summer football would be a first step.

[weeyin]

you'd only play 30 games a season with that. surely an 18 or 20 team league would be better

The point is to reduce the number of games so we can have a winter break without any fixture backlog. 36 or 38 games is too much for a wee country like ours.

[fatcalf]

Playing each other 4 times a season was an obvious flaw in the Premier set-up from the start but everyone's view was clouded by the prospect of 4 Old Firm games. Finances are tight aye but greed brought us to where we are so I don't consider financial arguments as generally that means the arguer is looking after their own interests.

It's what is required for the overall game in this country, I know we wont get it cos at the end of the day the financial argument will win through, usually to the benefit of the Bigot Bros, but the attendances will continue to decline, prices wil continue to rise, the Catch 22 will continue until we have no game then everyone will go "Wisnae ma fault". Folk running oor game need to see the bigger picture, the Old Firm are only 2 clubs and they need everyone else to survive same as we need them.

[LadywellToi]

I'm just interested if anyone would think that the worst summer in history would result in any more games called off than an average winter in Scotland.

 

The current SPL deal is something in the region of £20m season (Herald report I googled), £10m goes to the old firm, rest is shared, diluting the league means its shared between 16 opposed to 10. Also the £20m pot would diminish if there is less games, that's a given. Also less chances for gate revenue while still paying players wages. You don't need an MBA in business in Harvard to work out that the sums don't work for winter/18 team SPL.

[madwullie]

Just about every side in the SPL is only a kick-in-the-arse off extinction. There is no way any of them would vote anything through that resulted in a loss of income - be it more teams in the league (less OF games, less home games) or summer football (contentious I know, but I don't see TV companies paying more for this as some suggest - I wouldn't pay to watch Scandinavian games during our summer for a start). If anything I think we'd get less exposure with summer football.

 

Also, football is a winter sport and postponments are part and parcel of that. It's not like we live in Russia, or Scandinavia where it is impossible to get games played in the depths of winter, and there is no predicting when we'll get the bad weather. I've seen snow in April and tree splitting 10 degree sunshine in December.

 

Finally, when would we relay the pitch / do much needed groundskeeping work (I'm at the absolute limit of my knowledge here) if we were playing on it all summer?

[fatcalf]

I'm just interested if anyone would think that the worst summer in history would result in any more games called off than an average winter in Scotland.

 

The current SPL deal is something in the region of £20m season (Herald report I googled), £10m goes to the old firm, rest is shared, diluting the league means its shared between 16 opposed to 10. Also the £20m pot would diminish if there is less games, that's a given. Also less chances for gate revenue while still paying players wages. You don't need an MBA in business in Harvard to work out that the sums don't work for winter/18 team SPL.

 

Radical thought, 20M divided equally (as should be the case) between 18 teams would give us diddy teams slightly more than we get just now. Fuck the Old Firm they should be reduced to equal terms.

[nethertonwellfan]

Because there is less games doesnt mean less tv games to cover. There will be more fixtures so you can cover more games...........but I forgot it's LESS OLD FIRM GAMES that's the problem.

 

Fuck them as Fatcalf says equal payments stop letting the scum rule our game.

[LadywellToi]

Problem is you don't have a Dunfermline supporters club in LA, an Inverness Caley Thistle one in Boston or a Motherwell one in Brisbane. I lived in LA and went to both the Rangers and Celtic clubs to watch them play Motherwell, I paid $15-20 to get in because Setanta (at the time) and now ESPN charge a fortune. Don't be naive and suggest that the Old Firm aren't the greatest TV draw for our game. There is no/a fraction of the audience for St Mirren vs Dundee Utd.

 

We'd all love it if they didn't rule the roost, full of glory-hunters and bigots, but they do. Why are so quit walking around with a chip on the shoulder and deal with basic business sense.

 

As for groundskeeping, golf courses seem to manage to keep the grass in good nick and they are used at their peak in summer all day opposed to 1.5 hours. (granted studs cause more damage and I've never slide tackled someone for playing through). The issue is the grass is left alone from Dec to March and used when its at its most regenerating.

 

I wouldn't pay for Scandanavian football either, however if I was English (God forbid) and Scottish football was covered on Sky Sports 1-3, with a common language, familiarity and rudimentary interest I would be inclined to watch it.