David Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 In terms of discounting prices overall, as far as I am concerned it does little to boost the long term gate. When they drop it to circa £10 a ticket, 7,000 come. If they done that every week it would drop back to 4,000 a week in less than 3 games. I don't think that providing a discount on pricing for a while is the answer. Lowering prices to £10 per head for the East Stand for a game or two won't make any difference. We need a drop to somewhere around £15 permanently. As I mentioned previously, it's only £3 of a difference, but it seems to be a more acceptable price. I'm not sure if it's the idea of £18 being closer to the 20 quid mark, but £15 sounds a hell of a lot more fairer to me, and such a price would have seen me go a good few more times in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Perhaps a bit trickier to administer possibly but I still think there's merit in a mini-season ticket with options where you buy anything from a 2 game package to a 10 game package aimed at those who want to pick and choose or for whatever reasons have are limited to what games they can attend. The enticement over paying on the gate is an increasing discount the more matches that the buyer commits too. You could have packages including the Old Firm (with the additional supplement that comes with those games) or without them (then being a bit cheaper). You could have a scratch card and seal style ticket where you select your games whilst buying, scratch off the appropriate fixtures and the ticket gets sealed (in the same way if you buy an SPT Daytripper Ticket for example) or you could have the traditional tear off tickets as we have in existing season books. I think it would be something that could be targeted at the Christmas market as well as punters who can't make all the games for example when I get asked what I want from relatives I always ask for dosh to get a game or two over Christmas and New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted January 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Perhaps a bit trickier to administer possibly but I still think there's merit in a mini-season ticket with options where you buy anything from a 2 game package to a 10 game package aimed at those who want to pick and choose or for whatever reasons have are limited to what games they can attend. The enticement over paying on the gate is an increasing discount the more matches that the buyer commits too. You could have packages including the Old Firm (with the additional supplement that comes with those games) or without them (then being a bit cheaper). You could have a scratch card and seal style ticket where you select your games whilst buying, scratch off the appropriate fixtures and the ticket gets sealed (in the same way if you buy an SPT Daytripper Ticket for example) or you could have the traditional tear off tickets as we have in existing season books. I think it would be something that could be targeted at the Christmas market as well as punters who can't make all the games for example when I get asked what I want from relatives I always ask for dosh to get a game or two over Christmas and New Year. Some decent ideas there Andy. I might be wrong but I'm sure they administer 10 game or so packages in Baseball due to the amount of games they have. A 'christmas' package might be an idea, there are always 2 or 3 home games around the Christmas/New Year time. No harm in something like £30 for the three - especially if it was 'lesser' games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 What is it with people? They greet about the value of football and that things should be better. Meanwhile there is people like Juan putting very credible ideas forward that have been researched. It has proven to be a success with Bradford. All people can do is find fault and spout what ifs. If we continue the way we are going we will not survive and if we do it will not be in the premier league. Whether people like it, we as a club need to take a gamble because wee can't sit around and do nothing. At least if we try something and fail at least we have tried. We are a business and sometimes in business you need to gamble to survive. Assume that first bit was aimed at me. Can anyone actually show that it has been a success at Bradford? And the only reason I am throwing what ifs at it is that it is actually important. The Season ticket is where we get the most money from supporters so we need to get it fucking right. You only have to look through the threads here from the last two months and you have the moans that I mentioned earlier about taking on manager, taking on players, signiing them on longer term deals, sorting the pipes, the pitch, the East Stand, communication mix ups. You can't argue on one hand that prices should be lower and then on the other hand that we should be doing all these things. Whilst I acknowledge that there is work we can do and should be doing there comes a point where if you can't afford or are not willing to pay then you can't go. Motherwell, like it or not, is a business and they can't run a charity. And to be honestly blunt I don't think the interest is there to drive a significant reduction in cost and I don't see it working. Therefore I think we need to be working to make a cost similar to now is more easily met by people who can afford it and are wanting to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Motherwell, like it or not, is a business and they can't run a charity. In that case, we are this particular business paying customer. To ask for £20 to see a game of the standard we get in the SPL is ridiculous. Not to mention the financial condition that this country is in. Every other form of entertainment has worked diligently to keep their customer base happy, and to try and provide good value for money, yet football clubs seem to think that we can be shafted simply because we are fans of the club. That has been the case for years, but with other more professional, more value for money ways to spend a weekend becoming available, not to mention the small matter of football on TV, things are slowly changing, and they will continue unless the clubs get their heads out of their arses and shift themselves into the modern era. When you throw in the catering as well, and the way the stewards act towards some fans, it's a blatant rip-off. Like I said, any other business being run in this way would have went under years ago. SPL clubs still run their affairs and provide a service that was seen as semi-acceptable in the 70's and 80's. Outwith the Old Firm, we are all living in the dark ages, and it's eventually going to cause some major problems down the line. When you see the shambles we have presently with regards to catering, stadium facilities and the basic cost of a game, it's no wonder that the younger generation are choosing to spend their money on a sky sports subscription and a Premiership teams football shirt instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadywellToi Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 To me what you do is you offer people a season ticket at the same price which covers all games or you offer them a deal where you pay £60 up front and £10 per game after that. The £60 guarantees your seat and with that you hand over a voucher and a tenner and in you get. People would dwindle if we are mid table come March time, look at last season, the last 6 games were nothing. The club needs money up front to plan budgets for the forthcoming season. Why not everyone pays £250 up front, use the sliding scale that Juan outlined and every two months arrange a refund scheme based on the numbers. The refund could either be cash or a voucher for the cash amount +20% to use in the club shop or bar for example. All you would need to retain in your original receipt. i.e. June - Purchase season ticket for £280 31st Aug - 3,600 sold therefore £50 or voucher for £60 31st October 4,000 sold therefore another £20 or £24 in bar/club shop 31st December 4,500 last one £25 or £30 voucher People will tend to spend money in their pockets especially if you hand it out before the game. So there is a good chance it will be retained by the club if the prepare well for a refund day. Good job Ladbrokes is shut. By offering an incentive after Christmas means you shouldn't loose too much trade due to 20% off offer. Some people will miss it meaning extra revenue for the club. It also means the season ticket holder might cajole mates/those fallen by wayside to get one if there was an online totaliser ..... like Blue Peter ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niall Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Some decent ideas there Andy. I might be wrong but I'm sure they administer 10 game or so packages in Baseball due to the amount of games they have. A 'christmas' package might be an idea, there are always 2 or 3 home games around the Christmas/New Year time. No harm in something like £30 for the three - especially if it was 'lesser' games. do it in the NHL too, you can buy 10 game packages (given they play roughly 40 home games) instead of a full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottr Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Some really interesting ideas here, but there's one thing I can never understand, and that's how people think they can demand a lower price and still expect the same (or higher) standard of product. You might think that what's on offer at the moment isn't worth the money - fair enough, but that's what it costs to provide that standard of product. It's not as if the club are making loads of profit, so to say we want better football, better facilities, better catering and all the rest of it, but want to pay less, is maybe a bit unrealistic? I agree that it's very expensive these days, but how are we going to improve the standard of players if we are saddled with a lower budget? Or do we just accept a lower standard and find a level down in the first or second division where the prices are more reasonable? If gate prices are reduced, where does the money come from to make up the shortfall? Experience suggests it won't come from extra bodies coming through the gates, as that has never seemed to work to the extent needed. I suppose all clubs could be forced to reduce their admission prices, but also to reduce their playing budget by the same proportion, to keep everyone on a level playing field (not FP then!). Then all that would happen is any decent players would either leave Scotland or not come here in the first place...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 If gate prices are reduced, where does the money come from to make up the shortfall? Experience suggests it won't come from extra bodies coming through the gates, as that has never seemed to work to the extent needed. Why are people constantly saying that lowering prices has never worked? It's never been done for long enough to get any kind of result. Lowering prices for the odd game against Inverness or Falkirk isn't going to garner any results, is it? I personally don't think the prices are too far off being reasonable. Like I said before, knocking three quid off the price could make a bit of difference in the long run. I know it certainly would with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Why are people constantly saying that lowering prices has never worked?If you want an example, for year end 2008, Bolton Wanderers reduced their season ticket prices and still suffered an 11.4% reduction in gates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadywellToi Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Scott "Some really interesting ideas here, but there's one thing I can never understand, and that's how people think they can demand a lower price and still expect the same (or higher) standard of product." It doesn't cost the club any more to have 1 or 5,000 extra Well fans in the ground. Maybe only in police numbers. If you sell 3,000 tickets for £250 each or sell them for £150 and that attracts an extra 2,000 season ticket holders, you still end up with 3/4 million. Only difference is you will sell more in the shop/programs/catering/bars and there is a better atmosphere. This question shouldn't be aimed at us who would buy a ticket regardless, Jesus we spend a lot of our time on a fans forum website commenting. The aim is to attract those milling round the outside or those who dip a toe in the water every so often. To have them back at Fir Park should be the main aim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nethertonwellfan Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Assume that first bit was aimed at me. Can anyone actually show that it has been a success at Bradford? And the only reason I am throwing what ifs at it is that it is actually important. The Season ticket is where we get the most money from supporters so we need to get it fucking right. You only have to look through the threads here from the last two months and you have the moans that I mentioned earlier about taking on manager, taking on players, signiing them on longer term deals, sorting the pipes, the pitch, the East Stand, communication mix ups. You can't argue on one hand that prices should be lower and then on the other hand that we should be doing all these things. Whilst I acknowledge that there is work we can do and should be doing there comes a point where if you can't afford or are not willing to pay then you can't go. Motherwell, like it or not, is a business and they can't run a charity. And to be honestly blunt I don't think the interest is there to drive a significant reduction in cost and I don't see it working. Therefore I think we need to be working to make a cost similar to now is more easily met by people who can afford it and are wanting to go. No it wasn't directed at you personally. It is directed at people who moan about the status quo then find fault in ideas of change. You say it yourself that Motherwell is a business and the status quo is unsunstainable and most of us agree. Therefore as a business we need to change and take a gamble somewhere along the line. That is what the people at the top are paid for. Name me a business that doesn't have to take a gamble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnymfc Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Wasnt allowed a season ticket this year but have been to quite a few games this season home and away. If i dont get a season ticket next year i'll rather sit in the east stand pay £15, it does sound better £18 to watch SPL, no thanks. OR freebie incentive all season to those who pay at the gate. such as free mars bar or snickers. I know it may sound daft but i get hungry. just an idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 If you want an example, for year end 2008, Bolton Wanderers reduced their season ticket prices and still suffered an 11.4% reduction in gates. I was thinking of us having done it in the past to be honest. The Premiership is a totally different kettle of fish. Their pricing and quality is so off the chart when compared to the SPL that it's not worth thinking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well4eva Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 My worry is that with BOGOF once you've bought your season tickets other fans will agree with their mates ect. that they will pay half each and each get a season ticket so instead of each forking out 250 each it would be 125 each and so on. While honest fans will buy their season ticket outright those who look for a cheap deal that cheats the system will make the club lose out in the long run. IMO free season tickets are great i sometimes go to Hibs cause my mates grandad was one of their famous players by the surname of Todd dinnie know the first name. I also think school children are a huge market but instead of this free ticket with a paying adult crap when they get a season ticket they get another one free. And instead of their mate watching Rangers,Man u everton on the box they would go with their mate to the game even if they dont support the team they will go for the banter. But thats just my opinion great talking point tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellfan92 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 If you want an example, for year end 2008, Bolton Wanderers reduced their season ticket prices and still suffered an 11.4% reduction in gates. Did some fans no refuse to go because of gary meg ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottr Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Scott "Some really interesting ideas here, but there's one thing I can never understand, and that's how people think they can demand a lower price and still expect the same (or higher) standard of product." It doesn't cost the club any more to have 1 or 5,000 extra Well fans in the ground. Maybe only in police numbers. If you sell 3,000 tickets for £250 each or sell them for £150 and that attracts an extra 2,000 season ticket holders, you still end up with 3/4 million. Only difference is you will sell more in the shop/programs/catering/bars and there is a better atmosphere. This question shouldn't be aimed at us who would buy a ticket regardless, Jesus we spend a lot of our time on a fans forum website commenting. The aim is to attract those milling round the outside or those who dip a toe in the water every so often. To have them back at Fir Park should be the main aim. By referring to "gate prices", I meant the individual match prices, rather than season ticket prices. Your arithmetic is right, and even with the added costs of stewarding and having even more people unable to get to the catering without missing large chunks of the game, but my only reservation would be whether we would get another 2000 season ticket holders willing to commit up front, even at that price reduction. Any less than that, and by your own figures the club loses out. In response to the earlier comment about not having price reductions in place for long enough, did we not try a reduction for the last chunk of the season a few years back (I remember some season ticket holders weren't happy), and it didn't have a huge effect on the attendances. The fact remains that the club can't just cut prices without either cutting costs or making up that income from elsewhere, and there's no real evidence to suggest there would be enough of a sustainable boost in attendances to compensate, especialy not in the current economic climate. Supporting your team doesn't seem to be as big a factor as it might have in the past - given the choice between being there in person and sitting in comfort with a few beers watching it on TV for roughly the same cost, a lot of people would choose to go to the pub. For that reason, I think the admission for televised games should be reduced drastically (e.g. £10) in order to improve the atmosphere and maybe encourage a few TV viewers to come along next time, but again you hit the problem of reduced income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerse Posted January 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 My worry is that with BOGOF once you've bought your season tickets other fans will agree with their mates ect. that they will pay half each and each get a season ticket so instead of each forking out 250 each it would be 125 each and so on. Aye but the idea is we will need to meet the 'quota' of fans signing up in order to do the cheap deal + give out a free season ticket as well. If 4000 or whatever fans don't sign up to the cheap season ticket then we just don't give the freebies out. If we get the 4000 signing up anyone who would have paid in will have a season ticket anyway so the freebie will be used to bring complete 'irregulars' along - costing the club nowt in forecasted gate receipts but increasing attendances and 'matchday' income! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadywellToi Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 By referring to "gate prices", I meant the individual match prices, rather than season ticket prices. Your arithmetic is right, and even with the added costs of stewarding and having even more people unable to get to the catering without missing large chunks of the game, but my only reservation would be whether we would get another 2000 season ticket holders willing to commit up front, even at that price reduction. Any less than that, and by your own figures the club loses out. There wouldn't be extra costs for stewarding as all stands and exits have to be manned with a set amount. Maybe the police would insist on extra outside the ground, but only if the crowds were sustained. I think the only difference is in policing numbers itself. My opinion is, football lasts 1h 45mins, it takes place between the traditional lunch and dinner time, if you insist on going for a bite to eat from sub-standard e-coli nest then hell mend you, man up! 10 years ago the East stand had an extra 1,500 in it for an old firm game and managed to cope. Club doesn't lose out, as Juan points out, everyone pays the full price (so club is guaranteed roughly same income as last year if regulars renew) and then given rebates based on the signup rate/numbers. If they don't meet targets on the big blue peter totaliser then no rebate, club keeps its money. In response to the earlier comment about not having price reductions in place for long enough, did we not try a reduction for the last chunk of the season a few years back (I remember some season ticket holders weren't happy), and it didn't have a huge effect on the attendances. The season ticket holders who renew in June/July would be rewarded and less inclined to moan if club does initiatives later in the season if the Bradford method was taken up. The fact remains that the club can't just cut prices without either cutting costs or making up that income from elsewhere, and there's no real evidence to suggest there would be enough of a sustainable boost in attendances to compensate, especialy not in the current economic climate. Supporting your team doesn't seem to be as big a factor as it might have in the past - given the choice between being there in person and sitting in comfort with a few beers watching it on TV for roughly the same cost, a lot of people would choose to go to the pub. For that reason, I think the admission for televised games should be reduced drastically (e.g. £10) in order to improve the atmosphere and maybe encourage a few TV viewers to come along next time, but again you hit the problem of reduced income. I agree wholehartedly with this. I don't think the club makes that much in pay at the gate punters on these games to see why it wouldn't work. I know of quite a few people who went to Inverness because of the modest price reduction. I am believer in summer football as I think it may re-invigorate our game. Its the only thing I can see to jump start things. Think like a Mastercard advert: Davie Cooper Legend T-Shirt: £5 Drink in Beer Garden Before game: £5 Entry to Fir Park: £15 Bookies: £0 since Ladbrokes been told GTF Beating the OF 3-0 in 20 degree sunshine : Priceless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlukemurray Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Interesting thread. Football clubs across the country need to think seriously about their pricing. In particular for younger fans. Back in the day of the Claret and Amber Club it was only £1 to get into games - brilliant. It's now a minimum of a tenner for an East Stand ticket for under 16's. I remember when John Boyle took charge and it was £5 to get in. Fir Park was a sell-out for a game against Dundee United with Well fans taking over the top half of the away section. The club should invite regular season ticket holders, corporate supporters and those that turn up to 10+ games a season to Fir Park for a meeting. Look to get ideas and opinions on what they want, what would encourage them to go more often, what would encourage them to invite others.... The loyal fanbase of season ticket holders keep the club running and it's important to listen to them. Personally, I'm not a season ticket holder and usually make 10 home games a season and the odd away. If season tickets were cheaper I would consider getting one, but I'd probably still not go to every game due to work commitments at weekends or having other things to do. Cheaper entry on the gate would certainly encourage me to go more often and I'm sure some mates would be up for a beer and the game if it was a tenner to get in. Maybe the club could make a limited number of tickets available for a tenner for every game - including Old Firm games... News ideas are required to get more fans to Fir Park to keep the club running. And it's important to listen to the supporters. It's a delicate matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yosemite sam Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 What might also help, would be to close the south stand for games other than the old firm, and perhaps Hibs and Hearts. Less stewards and police, and make savings there, and pass some of that saving on to the supporters through lowering prices for those games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 An interesting idea from Mansfield... BBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteelman Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 An interesting idea from Mansfield... BBC You just know what would happen if we did that, we'd have about 6,000 fans paying 5 pence to get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellgirl Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 I read about the Bradford scheme last year, posted on FPC that I thought it would be a good idea and I still do, Motherwell needs something like this, particularly in this economic climate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 You just know what would happen if we did that, we'd have about 6,000 fans paying 5 pence to get in. the state our pitch is in id be asking for change from my 5 pence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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