Kaiser

[fat_tony]

The funny thing about that semi final was that Kaiser had been superb all season, totally consistent and was just getting on with things without getting all the headlines that others were. I was at the game with an Aberdeen supporting friend who had been asking about Hammell as he was linked with the sheep at the time. Even after the pass back mistake he was amazed that they were after Hammell and not Corrigan.

 

One mistake in a superb season is hardly enough to rub out all the good work done. Ruddy's made mistakes this year but his name's still chanted at every match.

 

Got to respectfully disagree on this one, I think Corrigan was a great player before he was seriously injured and it's such a shame he hasn't been able to finish off his career in the same form as he demonstrated for us.

[fizoxy]

Corrigan was an excellent player for us, and a fine servant. I don't think he was quick enough to get a sniff of international football though. The mistake in the semi-fnal was a sore one, but to define a Motherwell career which included over 250 starts by one error is a tad unfair.

 

I doubt that you'll find any "legend" who has gone through their entire career without making a mistake, and if that's the entry requirements of the MFC legends club then we won't have any!

[Shivute]

I remember the home game after the CIS semi when Kaiser came over to take a throw in beside the East Stand. The whole section stood and started singing "kaiser,kaiser....", i think that summed up how well liked the guy was by the motherwell support. He seemed to be genuinely appreciative of the gesture

[Frazzie]

I wanted to give my dog a Motherwell related name. I thought of Cooper....

 

My dog is called Coop. I must be a stalker aswell.

 

 

If I am ever the father of a daughter I will insist she is called Amber.

 

As will I, although I've already established that I will need to sneak said daughter down to the Civic Centre while the mother is still drugged up...

 

PS - Kaiser was quality, but not a legend or international class.

[Welldel]

What is it about us as fans that we feel the need to talk down our own players, past and present.

 

Corrigan was class for us and I have seen many players who were not as good as him play for the National side. The same can be said for Reynolds now and in the past guys like Brian Martin.

 

As far as Legends go, I would count Phil, Buff, Kaiser, Dougie, Kirky, Cooper and many more as Motherwell Legends. Others may have different ideas.

[GazzyB]

But did Dracula have to pick it up ??????

Yes, or it would've gone in.

[johnstone]

I would say since Corrigan got injured we never really had someone to fill his shoes. Quinn was OK, but I never rated him as highly as a fully fit Corrigan.

 

Hateley is looking like the first right back we have had who could replace him with quality and consistency. Get him signed up long term!

[Frazzie]

What is it about us as fans that we feel the need to talk down our own players, past and present.

 

Corrigan was class for us and I have seen many players who were not as good as him play for the National side. The same can be said for Reynolds now and in the past guys like Brian Martin.

 

As far as Legends go, I would count Phil, Buff, Kaiser, Dougie, Kirky, Cooper and many more as Motherwell Legends. Others may have different ideas.

 

I disagree with you there actually. I think Motherwell fans clambour for our players to get call-ups when they're not deserved. I'm not only replying to this because you used Reynolds as your example, but he isn't good enough for Scotland. Likewise Hammell. And last season Graeme Smith and Paul Quinn were being quoted amongst our fans. Neither of them are good enough either. Folk have been asking this season if Hateley is eligible. Sorry, but he's not good enough either.

 

I'm not having a bit downer on our team here - they're all good players for us, but there's a huge difference between Motherwell and Scotland, even if it doesn't always seem like it.

[Welldel]

Is Gary Kenneth or Paul Dickson (who the fuck is he), good enough ??

 

Was Kirk Clubfoot good enough or Danny Fox or the many, many others who have been capped inspite of the fact that they are shite ?

 

I wasn't trying to reignite the Reynolds debate, I know we will never agree on that. However the point remains we have had players over the years who in my opinion were good enough and were never capped.

[Steve Diggle]

Is Gary Kenneth or Paul Dickson (who the fuck is he), good enough ??

 

Was Kirk Clubfoot good enough or Danny Fox or the many, many others who have been capped inspite of the fact that they are shite ?

 

I wasn't trying to reignite the Reynolds debate, I know we will never agree on that. However the point remains we have had players over the years who in my opinion were good enough and were never capped.

 

its a fair point Welldel.

 

I have never thought that Quinn, Smith or Hammell were international class although at times I've felt that hammell was a good as what we had)

 

I admit I view the world through C&A tinted specs. however, all that asid i feel we have had players that merit inclusion (or more regular inclusion in the Scotland squad)

 

Kaiser definitely was one, Reynolds is another.

 

If a football fan believes that Gary Kenneth is a better addition to the international set-up than Mark Reynolds then we seriously have some problems understanding what football actually is.

 

Its about a comparison at the time on who's available / fit for a particular game - and sometimes, just sometimes - i think the guy playing week in week out in claret and amber is better than those in the squad.

[milo]

Are any of the Motherwell players we think should be playing for Scotland good enough to play international football? Probably not. Are any of the other eejits that continually get capped good enough? Definately not. So by that logic I think the overlooking of Hammell, Corrigan, Reynolds etc is a poor show. Dixon, Kenneth, Fox, Broadfoot, Langfield etc are no better (and in my opinion in many cases worse!) than what we have playing for us!

[Frazzie]

I think going through a list of shite players that have been capped for Scotland is pointless, and it could take you all day!

 

The way I judge whether someone is good enough to be be in the Scotland squad is quite simple - Normally, a squad consists of roughly 24 players, so just over two players per jersey if you like. Therefor, I ask myself:

 

Was Corrigan/Quinn in the best 2 or 3 Scottish right backs at that time? I would say no.

Is Reynolds in the best 4 or 5 Scottish centre halves right now? I would say no.

Is Hammell in the best 2 or 3 Scottish left backs right now? I would say no.

Was/Is Graeme Smith in the best 3 Scottish goalkeepers? I would say no.

 

It is all about opinions, of course, and I'm just telling you mine, but keep in mind Clarkson got a couple of caps while at Motherwell last year and I reckon fans of other provincial clubs would have been scratching their heads saying that their guy deserved it more, like you are with Kenneth & Dixon.

 

I would be delighted if a few of our players made it into the Scotland squad, and I'd be even happier if it developed them into a better player in the process - I just can't see it happenning for the forseeable.

 

PS - It's also a shame that the two players in our team who are (again, in my opinion) potentially international class are bloody English!

[alanr]

I agree with Frazzle to a certain extent...

 

I've never thought Hammell, Smith, Corrigan, Reynolds were good enough for international football. But then again, the people who do get called up haven't been much (if any) better. I'd be fearing the worst if I saw Stevie Hammell lining up against the likes of Arjen Robben in the last qualifying campaign. And that's what you've got to consider as 'international class'.

 

Unfortunately Scotland doesn't have the players to compete at that top level (bar the odd result like against France) and Reynolds has been a consistently better defender than Gary Kenneth but I think it says more about the standard of players we have in Scotland than it does about the standard of players we have at Motherwell.

 

A lot of our players past and present (Hately, Reynolds, Hammell, Clarkson...) would get a game for almost any other SPL team. But unfortunately that doesn't, for me, make them good enough for international football.

[andybug]

I think going through a list of shite players that have been capped for Scotland is pointless, and it could take you all day!

 

The way I judge whether someone is good enough to be be in the Scotland squad is quite simple - Normally, a squad consists of roughly 24 players, so just over two players per jersey if you like. Therefor, I ask myself:

 

Was Corrigan/Quinn in the best 2 or 3 Scottish right backs at that time? I would say no.

Is Reynolds in the best 4 or 5 Scottish centre halves right now? I would say no.

Is Hammell in the best 2 or 3 Scottish left backs right now? I would say no.

Was/Is Graeme Smith in the best 3 Scottish goalkeepers? I would say no.

 

It is all about opinions, of course, and I'm just telling you mine, but keep in mind Clarkson got a couple of caps while at Motherwell last year and I reckon fans of other provincial clubs would have been scratching their heads saying that their guy deserved it more, like you are with Kenneth & Dixon.

 

I would be delighted if a few of our players made it into the Scotland squad, and I'd be even happier if it developed them into a better player in the process - I just can't see it happenning for the forseeable.

 

PS - It's also a shame that the two players in our team who are (again, in my opinion) potentially international class are bloody English!

 

Corrigan was better than Maurice Ross who was capped at right back around about that time

Hammell is on a par with Dixon who's just been called up

Reynolds is a better defender than Kenneth

Graeme Smith was no better or worse than Jamie Langfield

 

So once again Imo your talkin pants, are you really an Airdrie fan in disguise

[Frazzie]

Corrigan was better than Maurice Ross who was capped at right back around about that time

Hammell is on a par with Dixon who's just been called up

Reynolds is a better defender than Kenneth

Graeme Smith was no better or worse than Jamie Langfield

 

So once again Imo your talkin pants, are you really an Airdrie fan in disguise

 

Aye, very good.

 

If you read what I said before, I don't think listing a load of shite players who have played for Scotland does any good. Justifying that our player should be capped by saying someone worse has been capped before isn't constructive. In my opinion, there's always been at least 3 Scottish goalies better than Buzz, half a dozen Scottish centre-halves better than Reynolds, etc...

 

Even if you think Kenneth doesn't deserve to be in the squad, Reynolds isn't the obvious next choce. Whether you like it or not, McManus, Wilkie, etc are still ahead of him so unless you're saying Reynolds is in the best four or five Scottish centre-halves available, you're not saying he should be in the squad - you're only saying he's better than Kenneth.

[Welldel]

Fuck it, I'll bite.

 

Reynolds is better than Wilkie and I know plenty Celtic fans who reckon Reynolds is better than McManus or Caldwell for that matter.

 

In my opinion he is one of the best Scottish Centre halves in the Country and based on our current defensive form of which he plays a major part, he deserves to be capped, on merit and not just because he is better than the likes of Kenneth.

 

Mark Reynolds will probably leave us in the summer and we will probably see him capped shortly after that if not before.

 

Don't expect you or certain others to agree but there it is.

[Bill Bones]

Aye, very good.

 

If you read what I said before, I don't think listing a load of shite players who have played for Scotland does any good. Justifying that our player should be capped by saying someone worse has been capped before isn't constructive

 

Just because you keep repeating this doesn't make it true. The point is guys like Ross and Crainey got capped for doing not very much at all at club level. Guys like Corrigan played at a consistent level for months yet didn't get a look in. Anyway, I was delighted when he got a "B" cap, the least he deserved.

[Frazzie]

Just because you keep repeating this doesn't make it true. The point is guys like Ross and Crainey got capped for doing not very much at all at club level. Guys like Corrigan played at a consistent level for months yet didn't get a look in. Anyway, I was delighted when he got a "B" cap, the least he deserved.

 

I'm afraid it is true. Mentioning Maurice Ross, Steven Crainey, Danny Fox, etc etc is another debate - and I'm sure it's one we'd agree on - as they were only capped because they played for the Old Firm. I can't think of a way to word this sentence any better unfortunately so here goes...

 

Just because one player gets an undeserved cap doesn't mean that a player more deserving actually deserves one!

 

Reynolds has never at any point been in the best half dozen Scottish centre halves, therefor he doesn't deserve to be in the squad. Any players who have been in the squad in the past, present or future are irrelevant.

[ross_mfc91]

My dog is called Cooper as well so i must also be a stalker.

 

I respect opinions but to describe a guy as over-rated and crap because of one mistake is plain ridiculous.

 

Im 21 years old and im confidently safe in saying that Corrigan was the best right back ive seen at Motherwell. Other's older may say Joe Wark, obviously before my time.

Corrigan was the first guy who's name i ever got on the back of a 'well top. Absolute legend and i used to always celebrate a Kaiser goal that little bit more. Especially his 2 against the old firm and that last minute header against Dunfermline.

[Frazzie]

Reynolds is better than Wilkie and I know plenty Celtic fans who reckon Reynolds is better than McManus or Caldwell for that matter.

 

In all seriousness, I'd take Wilkie, McManus, Caldwell or Kenneth ahead of Reynolds but it's all about opinions. However, it is pretty clear that they're all ahead of him in the pecking order.

 

What I will say is that I think Reynolds could do a job for Scotland in years to come, but I think it will need to be after he leaves Motherwell as he is far too unreliable at present, particularly when he doesn't have Craigan beside him. Before you start, I'm not having a go at him when I say that - an unreasonable weight was placed on his young shoulders by Gannon when he bombed Craigan out of the team and left Reynolds to organise a defence that consisted of two complete novices and latterly a bombscare Frenchman.

[Dodge]

Im 21 years old and im confidently safe in saying that Corrigan was the best right back ive seen at Motherwell. Other's older may say Joe Wark, obviously before my time.

 

I doubt others would say Joe Wark cause he was a left back.

[Motherwell Football Club]

A lot of the comments in this thread empitomises the common football fans lack of real knowledge of the sport.

[ross_mfc91]

I doubt others would say Joe Wark cause he was a left back.

 

 

My mistake. I thought he was a right back.

[GazzyB]

Reynolds is better than Wilkie and I know plenty Celtic fans who reckon Reynolds is better than McManus or Caldwell for that matter.

I would disagree. I don't think Reynolds is brilliant (like some folk do), and I don't think he is mentally overrated (like some folk do), I think he's somewhere in the middle. I think he's better than Kenneth, around about the same as Wilkie (despite the fact that they are completely different centre halves) and nowhere near as good as McManus & Caldwell. I know a lot of people don't rate McManus or Caldwell but I think they are both top defenders and streaks ahead of Reynolds. You've got to think about Berra, Webster, the other Caldwell etc who are all playing at a much higher level than Mark Reynolds, who all have more international experience and who have all played for Scotland already.

 

Reynolds could one day be international class. But I think playing for Motherwell week in, week out against shite like Kevin Kyle & Kenny Deuchar isn't going to get him there. If he were to leave us for the Championship and PROVE himself at a higher level, then I think he could be a Scotland player.

 

As for Hammell, I'm not so sure he's as good as Fox, Wallace etc. I agree that Danny Fox isn't all that good, but there must be a reason he's playing Premiership football.

[GazzyB]

A lot of the comments in this thread empitomises the common football fans lack of real knowledge of the sport.