Frazzie Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 I would disagree. I don't think Reynolds is brilliant (like some folk do), and I don't think he is mentally overrated (like some folk do), I think he's somewhere in the middle. I think he's better than Kenneth, around about the same as Wilkie (despite the fact that they are completely different centre halves) and nowhere near as good as McManus & Caldwell. I know a lot of people don't rate McManus or Caldwell but I think they are both top defenders and streaks ahead of Reynolds. You've got to think about Berra, Webster, the other Caldwell etc who are all playing at a much higher level than Mark Reynolds, who all have more international experience and who have all played for Scotland already. Reynolds could one day be international class. But I think playing for Motherwell week in, week out against shite like Kevin Kyle & Kenny Deuchar isn't going to get him there. If he were to leave us for the Championship and PROVE himself at a higher level, then I think he could be a Scotland player. As for Hammell, I'm not so sure he's as good as Fox, Wallace etc. I agree that Danny Fox isn't all that good, but there must be a reason he's playing Premiership football. Agree with this post 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Did he not bottle it in the last minute? He named his dog after average player, is that no stalker material? Plus the title of the thing a fucking legend is way OTT. Phil O Donnell was a great player but no legend. He left us for Celtic afterall and didn't play with us for a long enough period to gain legendary status. I would say Dougie Arnott is more of a legend. Your Mrs must batter you - cant think of any other excuse for the absolute nonsense you are talking!!!! There are a lot of different factors that would contribute to being a legend - and both Kaiser and Phil had them. The fact he made a mistake in one game is not "bottling it" because im sure there were plenty more occassions when he made a saving tackle or header!! Quite clearly you know feck all and should keep your deluded opinions to yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Agree with GazzyB's post 100% I think when Reynolds moves on, he will become a much better player. IMO, he has his best games against the better teams in the league. Barring his error in the recent Rangers game, look how well he's coped with Boyd & Miller over the last 18 months. If Mark can shine at Championship level over the course of a couple of seasons, i'd be happy for him to be in the Scotland squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fi2810 Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 I will give you an adult debate. Firstly, I will address the Corrigan issue. I liked him I though he was quality. He wasn't the greatest player ever but he was one of the most consistent players and played a shit load of consecutive games before his injury. He is also one of the nicest guys you will ever talk to. As for naming my dog after him that was not stalker material at all. I am Motherwell crazy. In fact my whole life revolves around Motherwell football club. That may be sad but it's the way I am and I will never change. I wanted to give my dog a Motherwell related name. I thought of Cooper, Faddy and even Softy. In the end I thought Kaiser was a quality name. So get a fucking grip of yourself. If I am ever the father of a daughter I will insist she is called Amber. Your comments on uncle Phil are disgusting. Yes he did go to Celtic but we received the biggest single transfer fee we ever have for him. Oh aye and he scored in a certain cup final win. I would also say Faddy was a legend too. In fact we have have received more money for him than any other player in our history. Is that adult enough for you ? I totally agree with that. Yes, Phil did go to Celtic but he came back to Motherwell after that, and he was a brilliant player and a great guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_P Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 I can't think of a way to word this sentence any better unfortunately so here goes... Just because one player gets an undeserved cap doesn't mean that a player more deserving actually deserves one! Reynolds has never at any point been in the best half dozen Scottish centre halves, therefor he doesn't deserve to be in the squad. Any players who have been in the squad in the past, present or future are irrelevant. You've repeated that point a couple of times now but if Levein or whoever is doing their job properly I can't see you how can simply look at a player in the isolation you appear to think they should be. Comparison with past players has to be relevant. Replace Reynolds for Kenneth for example in examining Levein's first squad. I don't believe for a minute that Levein would have thought right Gary ya big lanky streak of piss you're gonna be in my squad without having considered what he believes to the ability of, past performances of, future potential of, the versatility of and quite importantly when it comes to Scotland the actual availability of; against the likes of Berra, Steven Caldwell, Darren Barr to name but three other central defenders. Debate about who should be in and who should be in, its part and parcel of being a punter but I'd say a manager and his coaching team wouldn't be doing their job properly if they weren't thoroughly analysing and comparing potential players against past and present performers and keeping an eye what future talent could emerge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 I take your point, and there is relevance between the past performance of players who are currently in or around the squad just now when considerring someone like Reynolds, but trying to justify his inclusion by saying he's a better player than someone like Crainey is pointless. That's all I'm saying. And, yes, if Reynolds had signed for Rangers when we rejected that offer, he'd probably be in double figures in caps by now, but that's a different debate for a different day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldel Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Interesting to note that Brown is touting Reynolds for a cap in today's paper. I reckon that with his experince not least as Scotland Manager, he knows what he is talking about, maybe some here think they know better. Inclusion in the national team should be the ultimate reward for players in the best form in their respective positions. We are currently on an unbeaten run including 8 clean sheets. Reynolds has played a major part in that, he is an experienced player in form and deserves that to be recognised. I can't understand why some of our so called supporters refuse to support our players and are seemingly happier to talk down our own players. The whole old firm debate is actually part of the same debate, what is it about signing for one of the bigot brothers that magically makes good players who previously have not been capped, automatic selections. As far as Kenneth and Dixon's selection goes, in my opinion this is solely down to Levein's previous position and possibly in way of compensation to Utd, who now have 2 more internationally capped players to punt at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 I'd have Reynolds in at left back before Wallace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Interesting to note that Brown is touting Reynolds for a cap in today's paper. I reckon that with his experince not least as Scotland Manager, he knows what he is talking about, maybe some here think they know better. Every manager touts their own players for caps. Inclusion in the national team should be the ultimate reward for players in the best form in their respective positions. We are currently on an unbeaten run including 8 clean sheets. Reynolds has played a major part in that, he is an experienced player in form and deserves that to be recognised. I agree that he's in decent form and has been part of a solid back-line, but there's still a number of Scottish centre-halves who are better than him. I can't understand why some of our so called supporters refuse to support our players and are seemingly happier to talk down our own players. Are you intentionally trying to push my buttons with that 'so called supporters' pish? The whole old firm debate is actually part of the same debate, what is it about signing for one of the bigot brothers that magically makes good players who previously have not been capped, automatic selections. You'll hear no argument from me on that point! As far as Kenneth and Dixon's selection goes, in my opinion this is solely down to Levein's previous position and possibly in way of compensation to Utd, who now have 2 more internationally capped players to punt at the end of the season. ...or that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 I agree with Frazzle. Welldel, are you saying that because I don't think Reynolds merits a cap I'm a "so called" supporter? It's not that I (or anyone else) think he's a BAD player, it's that I just don't feel he's good enough AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME to merit a Scotland cap. Webster, Caldwell & Berra (who all played) all play for better teams and are better players than Mark Reynolds (if that makes me a so-called supporter for having that opinion, then so be it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldel Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Quote thing isny working..... Every manager touts their own players for caps. Yes they do, however when the Manager in question is also a former International Manager who knows exactly what is required for International level, his opinion has to be taken more seriously. I agree that he's in decent form and has been part of a solid back-line, but there's still a number of Scottish centre-halves who are better than him. How many ? Who ? And Why? Are you intentionally trying to push my buttons with that 'so called supporters' pish? No button pressing whatsoever, however I find it really strange that guys who I know are die hard Well fans are seemingly reluctant to back our players for international honours in favour of players from other teams who we don’t watch every week. To state that guys like Caldwell, Webster or Berra are better than Reynolds due to the fact that they play for better teams or that they are established internationals is rubbish. I mean no offence by “so called supporters” and it was not aimed at anyone in particular, I only mean that my definition of supporter means that we should support, talk up, encourage and believe in our players, rather than slating their ability. I seriously doubt that Caldwell would be a regular in the Scotland team if he was still playing for Hibs, from what I have seen of him he is extremely inconsistent and at times down right pish. But for unfortunate or fortunate for us circumstances Reynolds may well have moved to either of the Old Firm or to the championship by now, would that entitle him to an International place just because he would than have been playing for a supposedly better team? Berra was more fortunate and got his move but this does not make him a better player than Reynolds or more deserving of a cap. Webster is a decent player when fit however he is only back in the Scotland set up due to the Levein/United link. Gazzy see above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Quote thing isny working..... Every manager touts their own players for caps. Yes they do, however when the Manager in question is also a former International Manager who knows exactly what is required for International level, his opinion has to be taken more seriously. The fact that Craig Brown used to be manager for Scotland should have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not players get called up for international duty. When asked the question "do you think Reynolds should've been called up?", he is ALWAYS going to say yes, whether he believes that or not. I'm not for one second saying he's lying, I'm saying that Reynolds shouldn't be in the Scotland squad 'coz Craig Brown said so'. I agree that he's in decent form and has been part of a solid back-line, but there's still a number of Scottish centre-halves who are better than him. How many ? Who ? And Why? Stephen McManus, Gary Caldwell, Christophe Berra, Stephen Caldwell, Andy Webster, Lee Wilkie (probably more deserving of a call up). Why are they better than him? They just are. More experience, playing for better clubs in better competitions against better quality of players (for most of them). Are you intentionally trying to push my buttons with that 'so called supporters' pish? No button pressing whatsoever, however I find it really strange that guys who I know are die hard Well fans are seemingly reluctant to back our players for international honours in favour of players from other teams who we don't watch every week. To state that guys like Caldwell, Webster or Berra are better than Reynolds due to the fact that they play for better teams or that they are established internationals is rubbish. I mean no offence by "so called supporters" and it was not aimed at anyone in particular, I only mean that my definition of supporter means that we should support, talk up, encourage and believe in our players, rather than slating their ability. I don't understand what you find strange about it? The way you're saying it sounds like we should all be blindly supporting all of our players for all of their national teams. You have to remember as well, this discussion is more from a Scotland supporting point of view as opposed to a Motherwell POV (I know it's in the Club Chat section, but I'd say it's more through the eyes of a Scotland fan, because it's basically turned into a "who should play for Scotland" debate). As stated, I believe that as fans we should be realistic with our players' ability as opposed to blindly saying they're the bees knees. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but it does kinda sound like that's what you're suggesting we do). I seriously doubt that Caldwell would be a regular in the Scotland team if he was still playing for Hibs, from what I have seen of him he is extremely inconsistent and at times down right pish. I doubt that too, however the fact that he moved to Celtic and gained experience playing against Europe's elite and is now playing in one of the best league's in the world means that he has far more experience than Reynolds and would therefore cope better against the quality of Czech Republic players. As for the 2nd sentence here, I have to say, I completely disagree. I think Gary Caldwell is a great player. He's had a shocker or 2 for Scotland, but all in all, I genuinely believe he's a great player. But for unfortunate or fortunate for us circumstances Reynolds may well have moved to either of the Old Firm or to the championship by now, would that entitle him to an International place just because he would than have been playing for a supposedly better team? See above. We may not like it, but if you play for a better team then you have experience playing against better players and are therefore perhaps in a better position to play against the Spanish, Czech etc players. Berra was more fortunate and got his move but this does not make him a better player than Reynolds or more deserving of a cap. I can't really disagree with this. Berra was lucky to get his cap, but since then he has established himself as a Premiership player, while Mark Reynolds is playing for Motherwell. I'd feel more comfortable with a defender who has proven himself as able to play against Rooney, Drogba etc than someone who does well against Kevin Kyle and Craig Dargo. Webster is a decent player when fit however he is only back in the Scotland set up due to the Levein/United link. I'd probably agree with this, however I think he's a pretty solid centre half and was deserving of a chance to prove himself at international level. Fuck me that took a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Thats too much reading for me, but just to comment on the bit that stood out... Gary Caldwell is fucking god-awful Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeboy Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 For me, the best four Scottish centre-halves on ability are Caldwell, McManus, Berra and Webster. Had Andy Webster stayed injury-free he would be getting a game weekly for Rangers just now and I believe he will next season. I think McManus has been a fantastic player for Scotland, and has maybe had a bit of a dip in form but I challenge anyone not to playing in Tony Mowbray's circus. More or less the same of Caldwell, but he had a fantastic season last year. And Berra is playing week in, week out in the Premiership and coping, that speaks for itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 McManus Only decent when Weir talks him through a game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shallow Dave Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 All, The off-topic debate seems to have taken over this thread. For the record, Kaiser was a quality player for the club though in my opinion, not International class. He simply wasn't quick enough in my opinion. On the off-topic stuff, I find the Reynolds is better/worse than xxxxx a bit tiresome. Unlike England, there is very little TV football in Scotland, so for people to judge a provincial team's player to be better or worse is a bit skewed. If players stay fit, then the ratio is about 10:1 on actual comparison time with any other SPL player. [unless people here support other clubs, which I know is an allegation on other (OF) threads ] I can, however, compare Reynolds to previous Motherwell defenders and in my opinion, Reynolds hasn't reached the standard of Martin, Nijholt or McKinnon. None of these players were abundantly capped. Brown has made Motherwell difficult to beat and concede against, which he also did with Scotland. He's also one of the most media-savvy managers in the business. It's his job to raise the profile of his players at every opportunity. Just my 5 Rappen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 See the original argument was over Kaiser being a legend, not international class and of that there is no doubt whatsoever. And according to today's Express PSV rate Reynolds higher than many on here. Here I beat the offeeshal rumours thread by almost an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazzyB Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Well they're obviously wrong!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Well they're obviously wrong!! Well I know whose opinion I'd trust if this story is true. Clue, widnae be yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho1991 Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 I Can't beleive a thread on a very average player has gone on so long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 I Can't beleive a thread on a very average player has gone on so long Here, if you want to contribute, then contribute something more than 'I cannae believe...'. No need to run down one particular thread you don't agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 See the original argument was over Kaiser being a legend, not international class and of that there is no doubt whatsoever.See, if there wasn't any doubt, there wouldn't have been any dissenting opinion. Without a definition of legend, it's a pretty pointless debate anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho1991 Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Here, if you want to contribute, then contribute something more than 'I cannae believe...'. No need to run down one particular thread you don't agree with. Why? If it's pish can I not express my opinion that it is pish? You need to chill ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldel Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Well I know whose opinion I'd trust if this story is true. Clue, widnae be yours. European teams,coaches,Managers and scouts can`t possibly know more than some on here. They must have a vested interest in Reynols, it can`t be that he is better than some here think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggischomper Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Without a definition of legend, it's a pretty pointless debate anyway. Far as I have been able to make out on here lately, the current definition of legend = Boab Malcolm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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