Cardiff Owe Us Some Poons

[real dosser]

O.K. Bill so what should Boyle have done ???

 

Let Motherwell finish up like Gretna ??

 

19 people lost their jobs to save how many others ???

 

I think you will find that all of them have managed to find some other employment in the intervening years.

 

Nobody is happy about what happened but it was done for a reason.

[Bill Bones]

I'd be interested to know which of our creditors went out of business as a direct result of us going into Administration.

 

Me too. None I expect. But that's not really the issue. Is it OK for Cardiff to dodge their obligations to ourselves, by going into administration say? All perfectly legal.We'd be an unsecured creditor(not an English/Welsh club,so bizarrely not a football debt) and likely to get buttons .If we didn't directly go out of business as a result does that make Cardiff's behaviour any less reprehensible?

[Bill Bones]

O.K. Bill so what should Boyle have done ???

 

Let Motherwell finish up like Gretna ??

 

19 people lost their jobs to save how many others ???

 

I think you will find that all of them have managed to find some other employment in the intervening years.

 

Nobody is happy about what happened but it was done for a reason.

 

I think he should have honoured the contracts. He's no doubt still an incerdibly rich man. He certainly managed to take a hit to the tune of £8m. Of course, it's very easy for me to say he should have wrote off another couple of million to ensure Ready,Forrest et al weren't screwed over(which the were,Boyle and his employees gave them contracts,hardly their fault they were pish) but there you go. The situation was a bit like one of those "pre-packaged" administration deals,renege on a whole host of contracts and keep the good,profitable parts of the business of going. It might well be legal but it's not particularly edifying.

[mjw]

O.K. Bill so what should Boyle have done ???

Let Motherwell finish up like Gretna ??

 

19 people lost their jobs to save how many others ???

 

I think you will find that all of them have managed to find some other employment in the intervening years.

 

Nobody is happy about what happened but it was done for a reason.

 

Maybe he could have remembered the people who have paid for his dubious business dealings before greeting like a wee lassie on sky sports.

[Rickoza]

Nah, wasn't really my point. It's not OK for Cardiff to dodge this. We went into Admin to stop going bust, creditors got far more than normal in that situation and all apparently gladly accepted it. Cardiff are different, they have blatantly signed folk and shelled out cash on current signings when ignoring the fact they still owe us plenty.

[Bill Bones]

Nah, wasn't really my point. It's not OK for Cardiff to dodge this. We went into Admin to stop going bust, creditors got far more than normal in that situation and all apparently gladly accepted it. Cardiff are different, they have blatantly signed folk and shelled out cash on current signings when ignoring the fact they still owe us plenty.

 

Well, they were hardly in much of a position to secure a better deal, were they?. I doubt gladly's the adverb they'd use to be honest. Whatever way you look at it, Boyle made a massive arse of things, ripped some folk off then carried on as chairman of the club, albeit one who's been looking to sell. He took a hefty hit, my point is he should have taken a bigger one instead of resorting to legal shenagians to avoid "his" debt

 

Nobody, least of all me, is saying Cardiff are anything but a disgrace. But so were we, really. And yes, what Boyle did was legal but it wasn't a pretty picture.

[carluke dosser]

Think it was a crackin move by JB, may not have ben the slickest piece of tv ever but it brought it into the publc domain when the big news was coming out of Cardiff about Bellend.

Well get our money now no problems.

The power that is Sky sports news.

[Bill Bones]

Think it was a crackin move by JB, may not have ben the slickest piece of tv ever but it brought it into the publc domain when the big news was coming out of Cardiff about Bellend.

Well get our money now no problems.

The power that is Sky sports news.

 

Yeah, great work by Boyle, he's not daft. Cardiff'll no doubt pay up, hopefully soon as they're heading for a 10 point deduction and administration big style. Handy for a host of overpaid players that the rules in England are a wee bitty stricter; it'll just be local businesses,St. John's Ambulance etc that are out of pocket.

[madwullie]

Well yes, but surely you must see where guys like Forrest are coming from. He sees Boyle fuming on TV, using phrases like "shameful" and "moral weight" and thinks about what happened to him. Now, I get that his ranting performance may be necessary to get "our" cash but Boyle wrote off £8 million odd of his own cash, screwed over(all perfectly legal, of course) a whole host of individuals and local businesses and kept all the valuable assets(ground,players who had ability etc) for another day. If Boyle had any business ethics(surely a contradiction,much like that fairtrade carry-on) he'd have took an £11m hit instead of a mere £8m. It was a disgrace, frankly.

 

Totally.

 

What he did, while legally ok, was morally wrong, and just because he's got us in good shape now and a few journos are writing nasty things about us doesn't mean we have to pretend what we did was "right".

 

I'm glad we are where we are, but getting here we have went through some pretty shady times, and no wonder our ex-players who we sacked are fucking raging about our stance on this - which is also correct BTW.

[Rickoza]

Blame the system, not the club. All Motherwell did was what the system allowed in order to survive.

[brisbaneMFC]

Any sign of the cash yet?

[Shaka]

Maybe if Boyle didn't try to take the moral high ground then there would be no reason for greeting or dredging it up but he set Motherwell up for a slagging with his performance on ssn.

 

Thats true, and the 1 bit about that interview I didnt like, too much moral high ground stuff. But the point Im trying to make it that this happened over 8 years ago,we fucked up and paid for it,and yet now,instead of getting a little help or support from OUR national press when a team in an entirely different situation in a foreign country are ripping the pish out of a scottish club,we get this Admin situation dredged up to kick us again.

 

Im not condoning Boyle, Im not condoning the club and I do have sympathy for the suppliers who lost out as well as the players,maybe Boyle should have paid all the money so no-one but him lost out, maybe he should have demanded everything and shut the club down,again my only point about that is if he had decided to close the club there would have been no original pay off for those players and no annual dividend either, they would have got fuck all, again not something Id condone but it has happened to countless people the world over who could do nothing about it,they all had to get on with their life and most with far less money than a professional footballer.

 

The likes of Eddie Forrest,Karl Ready etc should do what every other person who has ever faced that horrible situation has had to do and accept the fact they got anything at all,then get on with their life. A horrible situation,not something anyone could condone but nothing anyone can change and unfortunately a part of life,albeit one of the shit parts.

[Ernie]

Aye because that makes it alright

 

No it doesn't make it right but does bleating about it years on make it any better. I have seen my father lose a perfectly good business because some arsehole went awol with his companies money and sold all his subbies down the river. Got picked up by the old bill, did time for fraud and was decleared bankrupt with no assets other than those taken by the tax man nothing for the little man. Did my old man bleat about it for years.............. you bet he did but as he said recently it was a waste of time because no bastard listened. If Forrest or Strong had played for a bigger club you would never have of them again.

[Steve Diggle]

Any sign of the cash yet?

 

 

I seen Leeann at the cashline earlier getting a printoot. said she'd post and let us know as soon as she got the laptop fired up.

[Rammer]

50% paid apparently.

 

BBC

[Frazzie]

The way we were talking about it in the pub last night applies to this scenario:

 

If you lent your mate a wedge, say a couple of hundred quid to tide him over, and you seen him in Asda with a basket containing half a loaf and a tin of smart-price beans, you'd be less inclined to hassle him for the cash back than if you seen him coming out of Comet with a 42" plasma under his arm.

 

What I mean by that is - yes, Motherwell screwed a few people over by going into admin, but we then played a season with a team of boys and finished bottom of the league. Us chasing Cardiff would only be hypocritical if we had signed a load of players on big money to replace the ones whose contracts were terminated. Cardiff have a damn cheek signing Bellamy et al when they still owe us (and others) money.

[steelboy]

all the players that got sacked (and someone needs to tell the press it's eight not 19) got near enough 50% of the money they were due from the remainder of their contracts and they had the opportunity to go and get deals elsewhere (effectively getting double wages for that season). technically it was the administrator and not mfc that sacked them but it's clear there was a good guy/wank element in deciding who had to go.

 

twaddle - he had some decent spells for us but was murder in his final season he was more interested in boozers and bookies than fitba most of the time. he got a deal at hearts so you have to assume he ended up doing well out the situation.

 

martinez - never tried a leg for us and deserved the bullet. it's fair to say things have worked out alright for him.

 

forrest - an imposter of a footballer. his true colours were shown when he juked arbroath to go to raith and it ended up being a wind up. he should be grateful we were ever stupid enough to make him an spl player.

 

ready - shite and on big wages. so stupid that he decided not to play the following season thinking that he'd be more likely to get more money from us, he didn't. i'd have paid him to stop playing in september 2001.

 

strong - the only one i feel almost sorry for as he was a decent player for us and always gave 100%. on the other hand he got over half a million pounds out his time at mfc and tried to act the hardman when he came back with livi so fuck him.

 

dow - a dire player. another one that should just be grateful davies and nevin enjoyed giving large amounts of the club's money to average journeymen.

 

cosgrove - never played a single game for us.

 

brown - was on his way out the door anyway.

[Brazilian]

NO players were sacked, huge difference between being sacked and the club/company making positions redundant,

 

but aye fair points

[mjw]

all the players that got sacked (and someone needs to tell the press it's eight not 19) got near enough 50% of the money they were due from the remainder of their contracts and they had the opportunity to go and get deals elsewhere (effectively getting double wages for that season). technically it was the administrator and not mfc that sacked them but it's clear there was a good guy/wank element in deciding who had to go.

 

twaddle - he had some decent spells for us but was murder in his final season he was more interested in boozers and bookies than fitba most of the time. he got a deal at hearts so you have to assume he ended up doing well out the situation.

 

martinez - never tried a leg for us and deserved the bullet. it's fair to say things have worked out alright for him.

 

forrest - an imposter of a footballer. his true colours were shown when he juked arbroath to go to raith and it ended up being a wind up. he should be grateful we were ever stupid enough to make him an spl player.

 

ready - shite and on big wages. so stupid that he decided not to play the following season thinking that he'd be more likely to get more money from us, he didn't. i'd have paid him to stop playing in september 2001.

 

strong - the only one i feel almost sorry for as he was a decent player for us and always gave 100%. on the other hand he got over half a million pounds out his time at mfc and tried to act the hardman when he came back with livi so fuck him.

 

dow - a dire player. another one that should just be grateful davies and nevin enjoyed giving large amounts of the club's money to average journeymen.

 

cosgrove - never played a single game for us.

 

brown - was on his way out the door anyway.

 

 

So it was Davies ,Nevin and the Administratorto blame,John Boyle absolved of any wrong doing again?You can write all the report cards you want but those players only signed the deal that was put in front of them and there can be no way Boyle didn't know what was going on.The bottom line is John Boyle taking the moral highground doesn't sit well with alot of people.

[steelboy]

So it was Davies ,Nevin and the Administratorto blame,John Boyle absolved of any wrong doing again?You can write all the report cards you want but those players only signed the deal that was put in front of them and there can be no way Boyle didn't know what was going on.The bottom line is John Boyle taking the moral highground doesn't sit well with alot of people.

 

wasters like forrest and ready taking the moral high ground doesn't sit well with me. we're supposed to feel sorry for them but in any other line of work they'd have been sacked for incompetence and got fuck all.

 

boyle gets slated left, right and centre in this country but he must have put £13 or £14 million of his own money into motherwell and you never hear him or anyone else ever mention it. eddie thompson got treated like a saint for putting in £5 million and his son never stops going on about it. rangers, hearts, united, killie and aberdeen are all massively in hock to the bank and murray and milne actually make money out the clubs. murray outsources as much of rangers operations (catering, tickets ect) to his own companies and pays himself for the privilige (a la glasgow city

council). milne is one of the richest men in scotland but never puts a penny into aberdeen and is going to make a fortune building houses on pittodrie.

 

name another individual that's pumped as much of his own money into scottish football?

[mjw]

wasters like forrest and ready taking the moral high ground doesn't sit well with me. we're supposed to feel sorry for them but in any other line of work they'd have been sacked for incompetence and got fuck all.

 

boyle gets slated left, right and centre in this country but he must have put £13 or £14 million of his own money into motherwell and you never hear him or anyone else ever mention it. eddie thompson got treated like a saint for putting in £5 million and his son never stops going on about it. rangers, hearts, united, killie and aberdeen are all massively in hock to the bank and murray and milne actually make money out the clubs. murray outsources as much of rangers operations (catering, tickets ect) to his own companies and pays himself for the privilige (a la glasgow city

council). milne is one of the richest men in scotland but never puts a penny into aberdeen and is going to make a fortune building houses on pittodrie.

 

name another individual that's pumped as much of his own money into scottish football?

 

The incompetence came from our chairman, he was more culpable than anyone and most of the money he pumped in was a direct result of this incompetence.

[Ya Bezzer!]

all the players that got sacked (and someone needs to tell the press it's eight not 19) got near enough 50% of the money they were due from the remainder of their contracts and they had the opportunity to go and get deals elsewhere (effectively getting double wages for that season). technically it was the administrator and not mfc that sacked them but it's clear there was a good guy/wank element in deciding who had to go.

 

twaddle - he had some decent spells for us but was murder in his final season he was more interested in boozers and bookies than fitba most of the time. he got a deal at hearts so you have to assume he ended up doing well out the situation.

 

martinez - never tried a leg for us and deserved the bullet. it's fair to say things have worked out alright for him.

 

forrest - an imposter of a footballer. his true colours were shown when he juked arbroath to go to raith and it ended up being a wind up. he should be grateful we were ever stupid enough to make him an spl player.

 

ready - shite and on big wages. so stupid that he decided not to play the following season thinking that he'd be more likely to get more money from us, he didn't. i'd have paid him to stop playing in september 2001.

 

strong - the only one i feel almost sorry for as he was a decent player for us and always gave 100%. on the other hand he got over half a million pounds out his time at mfc and tried to act the hardman when he came back with livi so fuck him.

 

dow - a dire player. another one that should just be grateful davies and nevin enjoyed giving large amounts of the club's money to average journeymen.

 

cosgrove - never played a single game for us.

 

brown - was on his way out the door anyway.

 

Don't always agree with Steelboy but he got this spot on. Most of those guys should think themselves lucky they only got sacked and not run out of town on the end of a whip.

[numpty]

The incompetence came from our chairman, he was more culpable than anyone and most of the money he pumped in was a direct result of this incompetence.

This is certainly somewhat true. However, we were one of the first clubs in the UK to take the route we did, and that should have served as a significant warning to others about what could happen if they kept spending money they couldn't afford. The fact that we got through it, learned from our mistakes and continue to run a tight ship, while others have kept spending regardless and ended up in the same sort of trouble, does entitle JB to take a bit of the high ground from time to time IMHO.

 

(And let's not forget, his ever-so-slightly-sanctimonious performance on SSN is hardly the first Cardiff City had heard about it... we've been quietly and presumably, I'd imagine, somewhat sympathetically chasing the money for months, but failing to get it. So fair play to him for stirring it up a bit if you ask me.)

[madwullie]

But don't you see, it doesn't matter how good they were, or how "worth" the contracts they were. We offered them the contracts and they signed. They have a right to be totally fucked off we didn't honour them, no matter how much time has passed, no matter what most companies pay when they go into administration, no matter how much they got, no matter how shite they really were and no matter how hard they tried for us. Especially when our chairman is (rightly) mouthing off on TV about moneys owed to him by welchers.

 

We just have to accept the deserved abuse, pocket Cardiff's money and move on. But these guys have every right to be "disgusted", "outraged", "sickened" and whatever other OTT verbs the papers put in their mouths, and it doesn't matter how much we're "aw murwll", those are the facts.

[mjw]

This is certainly somewhat true. However, we were one of the first clubs in the UK to take the route we did, and that should have served as a significant warning to others about what could happen if they kept spending money they couldn't afford. The fact that we got through it, learned from our mistakes and continue to run a tight ship, while others have kept spending regardless and ended up in the same sort of trouble, does entitle JB to take a bit of the high ground from time to time IMHO.

 

(And let's not forget, his ever-so-slightly-sanctimonious performance on SSN is hardly the first Cardiff City had heard about it... we've been quietly and presumably, I'd imagine, somewhat sympathetically chasing the money for months, but failing to get it. So fair play to him for stirring it up a bit if you ask me.)

 

I just would have prefered it if he had left it to the chief executive to deal with the media as he left himself open with his manic interview