Leeann D

[Guest]

The championship is a perfect example of what 'Flow was saying. The football standard is easily as good as it is here, but the shine that Sky and various other media outlets put on it is outrageous. There are any number of examples of decent SPL players going there and doing an very good job in 'top' championship teams. If you threw Hibs, Dundee United, Hearts, Motherwell or Aberdeen the sort of cash that they run on and they'd easily compete.

 

The Scottish league has been through a very difficult period and is still doing pretty well. Almost all the clubs have cut their cloth accordingly and we're beginning to see the benefits of this. There are a couple of good young Scottish players plying their trade at just about every club across the SPL. Coupled with the fact as mentioned previously, we've got Scottish players going across the border for good money and playing at a higher level in the Premier league.

 

If thats not positive, I don't know what is?

[Kmcalpin]

If people are happy to lay the blame at the door of the scottish media and absolve the govening bodies and clubs of any blame then the ball is well and truly burst.

 

Lets be clear here. I'm not blaming the media for all football's ills and I don't think others are either. But the media must take a share of the blame.

 

Fans: SOME have become spoiled, some prefer watching footie in a pub, some could put more back into their clubs.

 

Clubs: have become too complacent and taken punters for granted. some such as those in EPL have become downright greedy.

 

Players: particlularly at the top of the game have become too greedy and the effect of that has filtered down to all levels, including juniors.

 

Governing bodies: too reactionary and inward looking.

 

Old firm: bled our football dry to the detriment of the other clubs at all levels.

 

Media: infatuated and obsessed with the OF and the EPL. Too ready to do our clubs down.

 

I could go on and on.

[decal]

+1

[CoF]

A brilliant example and in todays papers too. This shows in a nutshell the disrespect journalists show to the teams outwith the Old Firm. Over the last few days we have seen the papers full of Martin O Neils comment that Aiden McGeady is a Preimiership standard player. This is a complete non story and yet it is given much more significance than two of the Scottish teams playing in Europe this week.

 

We all know the reasons for it but it is slowly killing the Scottish game. I am sure that Ewing Grahame is much too full of self importance to worry about that.

 

To be fair, it's more prevalent in some sections of the media than others. The daily red tops are determined to rip Scottish football to peices at every opportunity. Our defeat to Nancy is a prime example of this. They fact that they aren't a major European force completely overshadowed the fact that they had a bigger budget than either of the Old Firm that year (I'm sure they had spent in region of £15m?)

 

That's nothing but cynicism and ignorance.

 

On the other hand, I find some Radio programs fairly inclusive and positive. I thought the coverage of the Briedablik away leg on Radio Scotland was very good. A lot of positivity and genuine excitement about Motherwell and Hibs (and Celtics) upcoming games. Any neutral would have been left with a good feeling about these games.

[star sail]

On the other hand, I find some Radio programs fairly inclusive and positive. I thought the coverage of the Briedablik away leg on Radio Scotland was very good. A lot of positivity and genuine excitement about Motherwell and Hibs (and Celtics) upcoming games. Any neutral would have been left with a good feeling about these games.

 

 

Agreed, I think Radio Scotland do a good job but as an example of where they too get it wrong, I remember driving up to the first Aberdeen v Well game at Pittodrie last season and from 1pm untill we got out the car at 2.50pm they talked exclusively about a takeover at Rangers, a takeover that at the time did not even have any faces associated with it (ie a non story). We had been listening to hear team news of a game that was happening that afternoon and were still waiting as we got out the car.

 

Having said that it is more the written press I would criticise when in comes to so called bad press.

[steelman1991]

A brilliant example and in todays papers too. This shows in a nutshell the disrespect journalists show to the teams outwith the Old Firm. Over the last few days we have seen the papers full of Martin O Neils comment that Aiden McGeady is a Preimiership standard player. This is a complete non story and yet it is given much more significance than two of the Scottish teams playing in Europe this week.

 

We all know the reasons for it but it is slowly killing the Scottish game. I am sure that Ewing Grahame is much too full of self importance to worry about that.

Not only that, but he's from Harthill born and bred, supported Airdrie (so that tells its own story), switched allegiance to Celtic (little wonder he doesn't visit his home village much) and who now professes to be a 'boxing' expert (suppose he would need to be if he visited more often). Really sums up the scottish media - when even they can be manipulated to crossover to the 'dark-side'

[mjw]

How many people would agree with that statement?

 

 

 

I'd like to think most people who looked at the situation objectively they would agree.

 

I would rather look at it as value for money and in my opinion we don't get that,some people seem to think a couple of wins in july over part timers and then easily beaten by a Nancy or Steaua constitutes success, in my (humble) opinion it papers over the cracks of our bread and butter league season being a bore.

[Amber_nectar]

The coverage from the BBC of the Scottish game is shocking. On a Saturday night it is wall to wall English football. on the Radio it is Rangers this Celtic that and as for that awful open all mics thing terrible terrible radio. The biggest problem for Football in this country is the amount of other things kids can do with there pocket money. Play games on their psp's, wee's and X-boxes. Dads having to work weekends to make ends meet so can't take their kids to the footy. We need to get bums on seats. We need fans to spend their money at Fir Park. Although when you are asked to pay £1 for a twix and £1.70 for a pie there ain't much chance. Motherwell have done a fantastic thing by letting kids into the Cooper for free. Motherwell Football Club need to get in contact with Motherwell fans that don't go to Fir park and find out why they don't come along to watch. Is it too expensive, is it work commitments, is it the product on show or is it that they just can't be arsed sitting in the freezing cold watching us struggle against 10 men of Inverness caley thistle in the middle of January. The one thing that will keep Motherwell alive are the fans.Fact! The fans committee that has been set up is a great idea and has hopefully already had some positive impact on the going on's at Fir Park. We all want a winning team on the park and the best way to get this is by getting folk to come to Fir Park spend their money so it can be invested in the team.

[john_M_F_C]

I would rather look at it as value for money and in my opinion we don't get that,some people seem to think a couple of wins in july over part timers and then easily beaten by a Nancy or Steaua constitutes success, in my (humble) opinion it papers over the cracks of our bread and butter league season being a bore.

 

If we expand the league we make it a poorer standard and there's less money, The league itself has to be this way. No two ways about that. The league has to be a bore and somewhat repetitive.

 

The coverage from the BBC of the Scottish game is shocking. On a Saturday night it is wall to wall English football. on the Radio it is Rangers this Celtic that and as for that awful open all mics thing terrible terrible radio. The biggest problem for Football in this country is the amount of other things kids can do with there pocket money. Play games on their psp's, wee's and X-boxes. Dads having to work weekends to make ends meet so can't take their kids to the footy. We need to get bums on seats. We need fans to spend their money at Fir Park. Although when you are asked to pay £1 for a twix and £1.70 for a pie there ain't much chance. Motherwell have done a fantastic thing by letting kids into the Cooper for free. Motherwell Football Club need to get in contact with Motherwell fans that don't go to Fir park and find out why they don't come along to watch. Is it too expensive, is it work commitments, is it the product on show or is it that they just can't be arsed sitting in the freezing cold watching us struggle against 10 men of Inverness caley thistle in the middle of January. The one thing that will keep Motherwell alive are the fans.Fact! The fans committee that has been set up is a great idea and has hopefully already had some positive impact on the going on's at Fir Park. We all want a winning team on the park and the best way to get this is by getting folk to come to Fir Park spend their money so it can be invested in the team.

 

You don't need to buy a pie or a twix. Being there's enough. People don't come because they can't be arsed. Footballs a TV sport now for most people, not a going to sport. Kids don't need taken to the football by parents, look at all the younger faces up the far end of the east stand, most there with pals etc. That's refreshing to see.

[Amber_nectar]

You don't need to but people might if it was 60pence for a twix and £1.20 for a pie and the club would surely still make a profit. Pizza slices for a pound now there is a wee money making idea.

[mjw]

If we expand the league we make it a poorer standard and there's less money, The league itself has to be this way. No two ways about that. The league has to be a bore and somewhat repetitive.

 

 

 

You don't need to buy a pie or a twix. Being there's enough. People don't come because they can't be arsed. Footballs a TV sport now for most people, not a going to sport. Kids don't need taken to the football by parents, look at all the younger faces up the far end of the east stand, most there with pals etc. That's refreshing to see.

Motherwell feature in 6(approx) games a season on tv so that can't be the only reason,i can't believe if you askd people they would say 'can't be arsed'rather than 'can't afford it'.

The youngsters you talk about are bullied and harrassed for 90 minutes for simply enjoying themselves as part of the bigger campaign by the police/stewards to remove the fun from the game,why are youngsters going to pay in to a game only to get flung out again for standing/singing.

[TheLip69]

I find Leann's remark about football fans not understanding footballs finances more than a trifle condescending.

Most of us have lived through a peroid when a whole host of clubs have been stricken with financial difficulties, Motherwell, Dundee, and Dunfermline just for starters and we've also lost seen clubs like Airdrie and Gretna go to the wall throw in the continuing saga of Hearts and Rangers money worries and I think we have a more than fair idea of whats going on.

You go onto virtually any supporters forum and look at the rumours threads within three posts of someone mentioning a possible signing, someone else will post whether "we can afford him".

When was the last time anyone on these boards had a football discussion where finance didn't come into it? It's almost the first topic of conversation and it has been for some time now.

Fans have been shouting long and loud about ticket prices for years, the fact is we are pricing a lot of fans out of the game. It's no mystery where they've gone, they just can't afford it, some will pick and choose their games and others will stay away altogether.

Of course in this financial crisis the struggle to put food on the table, and clothes on the kids backs, may cause some to lose sight of footballs financial crisis.

It was condescending and patronising, two of the main traits of every chief executive I've ever met.

[weeyin]

How many people would agree with that statement?

Having watched the Championship for many years, I would agree with it.

[Amber_nectar]

Unfortunately she maybe made a wee mistake and put football fans into the same box on this one. Alot of football fans think their club should go and pay x grand a week to get the player they want. I think she is aware that most Well fans get the whole financial thing with Motherwell Football Club. We all know we need bums on seats and that should be the biggest agenda on the Directors table for the forseable future. Get as many people through the turnstiles as humanly possible. Kids, Adults, O.A.P's. students. Ask a friend along.

[Modernist]

I think she is aware that most Well fans get the whole financial thing with Motherwell Football Club. We all know we need bums on seats and that should be the biggest agenda on the Directors table for the forseable future. Get as many people through the turnstiles as humanly possible. Kids, Adults, O.A.P's. students. Ask a friend along.

 

What about a UB40 gate (with reduced entry) as well then ?

 

I'm pretty sure some 'Dossers' out there have been made redundant recently.

[mjw]

What about a UB40 gate (with reduced entry) as well then ?

 

I'm pretty sure some 'Dossers' out there have been made redundant recently.

 

 

Criminal we don't have this as closures and redundancy are hardly new to this area,if we don't attract unemployed fans at the moment then having a reduced gate would bring more people and could actually make some extra money.

[steelboy]

I would rather look at it as value for money and in my opinion we don't get that,some people seem to think a couple of wins in july over part timers and then easily beaten by a Nancy or Steaua constitutes success, in my (humble) opinion it papers over the cracks of our bread and butter league season being a bore.

 

in what way is it boring?

 

last season was quality.

[mjw]

When i decide on saturday morning if i can be bothered going to the match and then i get there and can't wait for 4.45 to get away home again, then that suggests i aint enjoying my football anymore. granted the embarrasment we have had for a pitch the last couple of years plays apart in that but the fact that those old firm teams(possibly the worst ever)are still streets ahead of the rest should have everyone else hanging their heads.

[johnstone]

A brilliant example and in todays papers too. This shows in a nutshell the disrespect journalists show to the teams outwith the Old Firm. Over the last few days we have seen the papers full of Martin O Neils comment that Aiden McGeady is a Preimiership standard player. This is a complete non story and yet it is given much more significance than two of the Scottish teams playing in Europe this week.

 

We all know the reasons for it but it is slowly killing the Scottish game. I am sure that Ewing Grahame is much too full of self importance to worry about that.

 

Thats got fuck all to do with showing respect to our game. Its about selling newspapers and we know how much in the shit they are.

 

If you were the editor of the Daily Record and your back page splash was that Motherwell had beaten a part time Icelandic team 1-0 or that McGeady might be going to Aston Villa in a multi million pond deal. Which one would you print?

[Kmcalpin]

I find Leann's remark about football fans not understanding footballs finances more than a trifle condescending.

 

Don't take it that way, although she is right in what she said. Maybe its been the club's fault for not being open over the years maybe its the fans' fault for not listening but thats not the issue. Generally fans don't understand football finances.

 

I'm fortunate enough to be a small shareholder and so have access to the annual accounts and AGMs. To that extent I know a little about our finances although I'm no financial expert. What I have learnt though is just how little I know.

 

Over the years I've read many posts on this and other Boards on our clubs' finances and many are well off the mark. For example if the media reports that we've sold Player X for £500,000 people have understandably queried where the money has gone. In fact they don't know what the actual fee was; how it was paid; what tax was due on the transaction; what the player's cut was. All these factors can reduce a seemingly fat fee quite considerably.

 

In terms of our Euro campaigns, I've read on these boards that we will receive about 90k euros per round, and that would seem to be true. However very few posters have cottoned on to the fact that travel and accommodation costs will be very hefty. I just wonder what the club's bill for travel & hotels to Norway will be?

 

In short LIP, Leeann was spot on - her comments would not appear to be judgmental but simply a fact.

[mjw]

Most of us can remember the ill-fated attempt to make us the third force in Scottish football and that it nearly put our club out the game altogether, so for anyone to say we don't understand the financial reality at fir park is frankly insulting.No one is seriously suggesting we follow Rangers or Hearts into financial meltdown, but the time is coming when big decisions will have to be made.Will we be able to continue when the only punters going through the gate are season tcket holders who have already paid and the cash flow of money through pay at the gate dries up?

[john_M_F_C]

Motherwell feature in 6(approx) games a season on tv so that can't be the only reason,i can't believe if you askd people they would say 'can't be arsed'rather than 'can't afford it'.

The youngsters you talk about are bullied and harrassed for 90 minutes for simply enjoying themselves as part of the bigger campaign by the police/stewards to remove the fun from the game,why are youngsters going to pay in to a game only to get flung out again for standing/singing.

 

I'm not meaning Motherwell games specificaly. There's alot of people now who'll watch Chelsea play Blackburn at home or in the pub wit a beer than go to a live game. The Polis side is an interesting one though, since Motherwell foot the bill for the Polis in the ground. Maybe if there wasn't as many polis on bumped up overtime rates in the east stand ticket prices could go down...

[Lobey_Dosser]

For me, the main factor for the disinterest in Scottish football is the relation between the quality of football and ticket prices.

 

I'm concerned that clubs are continuing to piss against the wind by 'investing' in loan players and journeymen. For instance, Aberdeen chasing Lee Hendrie when they have some of the best kids in the country.

 

When funds are so tight why no bite the bullet and be upfront with the fans that it's in the clubs' interest to go with the youth. In return, ticket prices will be adjusted to reflected the reduction in the annual wage bill.

 

If the likes of us and Killie were to do it, I'm confident that Accies, St Mirren, St Johnstone, ICT and Dundee United would follow suit.

 

I'd much prefer to pay a tenner a week to see emerging talent from around the country. And once we start producing these players again, the profile of Scottish football will gradually grow.

[Steve Diggle]

I think we'd all agree that Motherwell as a club have outperformed many around them in recent years, particularly post administration.

 

And by and large the problems facing the scottish game are the fault of the clubs collectively. The Satellite TV set up while papering over the cracks with an annual cheque is a fundamental factor in the strangulation of the game as a Saturday @ 3.00 pm event. resulting in the pictures going out to the world of the OF playing away from home against a provincial club in front of a Junior Football attandance (usually on a sunday when most folks are surfacing from their pit).

 

While I sypathise with the bulk of Flow's point - I would counter that while I understand MFC can't do it alone, we (scottish football) have quite literally run out of time / gone past the point of no return. Unless something seismic happens - it could be game over quite soon. All the clubs can't continue to regroup / retreat to their provincial stadiums and say the same thing - "we can't do it alone" - they're all saying these same things. When was the last time a group of them banded together and put together a package for survival and changed their own organisation (the SPL) for the better.

 

It sounds like the club are looking at some different angles - but there are too many different agendas within the non OF teams that concensus is impossible as self preservation reigns. self preservation will be defended until the day before extinction.

 

Motherwell try their best to get kids involved in the game - yet, although it's better these days, the media would prefer to cover OF strips drying on a washing line than cover any other team and cover the game negatively than 'reporting it' and 'promoting it' - it's their lifeblood too after all.

 

There are so many simple fixes to some of this to. A terrestrial TV highlights package covered by a bunch of glum looking bawbags at 10 past midnight on a Monday night????? Can someone tell me how that is promoting the game and how the SPL aren't trying to do something about that??? And what the viewing figures are, particularly how many schoolage kids are watching it and being inspired to be the next SPL star.

[star sail]

Thats got fuck all to do with showing respect to our game. Its about selling newspapers and we know how much in the shit they are.

 

If you were the editor of the Daily Record and your back page splash was that Motherwell had beaten a part time Icelandic team 1-0 or that McGeady might be going to Aston Villa in a multi million pond deal. Which one would you print?

 

Maybe read what is being said more carefully before getting all aggresive. The respect aspect was in relation to the comments by Ewing Graeme regarding the up and coming Well game.

 

I did also say that we all know the reasons why the McGeady story gets put on the back page, particularly if it's the aquatic deal of the century. Pond Weekly would no doubt go nuts over it. To continue the theme of missing the point completly however, I will agree with you, that

printing the McGeady story has fuck all to do with showing disrespect for the game. It is simply a shit story and sensationalism untill such times as there is any substance to the fact that McGeady is going to Villa.