Odense - Europa League Play Off 2nd Leg

[Jay]

Thought I’d wait til today to post up my thoughts on last night, so I wasn’t doing it in the immediate aftermath. Of course, like most of us, I’m still pretty gutted anyway! I don’t want to go over and over some of the points that have already been made again and again – just going to mention the game, Odense and the Motherwell fans...

 

Firstly, I just want to thank the players and the staff for the European run. We’ve fallen unfairly at the final hurdle, but we can be proud at what we’ve done so far in the season. Put aside the opponents this round – the UEFA seeding is organised so that as many seeded teams get into the big tournaments as possible so it’s a more glamorous competition. The Europa League is no different and we went into this round as the unfancied and, basically in the eyes of the UEFA seeding system, the unwanted team. And yet, over the two legs we were the better side.

 

In the first leg we just edged it, and were unfortunately to lose 2-1. Last night we were undoubtedly the better team – even the BBC stats show an overwhelming indication of how we should have won last night. Over both legs we looked like the seeded team, and last night we played well, put in a lot of effort, created enough chances to be in today’s draw, and even had some luck with the opposition going down to nine men and receiving a penalty near the end. There’s no debating about it – we should have beaten Odense last night, and not even with the aid of extra time. But alas, it wasn’t to be and we will never, ever have a better chance at the group stages – which is perhaps the hardest pill to swallow.

 

But we can still be proud of the performance last night. I’m perfectly happy with all the players performances last night – one or two didn’t play to their best, but that happens from time to time in football and the most important thing is every player appeared to give 100%. We surely all know by now that sometimes you can play well and dominate the game, but it’s just one of those nights where the ball won’t hit the back of the net? Last night was the perfect example of that, and the Odense players and fans should be breathing a huge sigh of relief and recognising that they’re extremely lucky to be facing the prospect of getting absolutely horsed in every group stage match (which they will, because they’re a mediocre side). If we still had Jutkiewicz, we’d be in the group stages IMO as all we were missing last night was someone to put the ball in the net.

 

A wee word on Odense then. From some of the comments from their fans and players, they seemed to think the tie was in the bag. And, score wise, they have been proved right. But it would take a very blinkered Danish fan indeed to try and claim they deserved to win the tie and deny that Motherwell were the better team in both games. I’ve noticed some posts about the conduct of the Odense players. I’ve got to agree in that some of it was very embarrassing – plenty of diving, playacting, and time wasting on show. But that’s European football, something we’re still very naive to. We don’t see it very often in Scotland (and personally I’m delighted with that) but in Europe, it’s common place and a big part of the game. I think a balance also has to be recognised with regards to the conduct by the opposition last night – yes, the time wasting (especially by Carroll) before the penalty was absolutely pathetic and unprofessional, but on the flipside – when the referee ordered a drop ball at our throw in because an over-enthusiastic ball boy chucked an extra ball on, the Odense player could have easily launched the ball back to Randolph or even belted it out for a throw in down near the corner in the Motherwell half. Instead, he showed a great deal of sportsmanship given they were under the cosh and holding onto a slender lead by knocking the ball out for a shy in the same position it went out in the first place. That’s a touch of class you wouldn’t see from a lot of players, so I think that needs to be recognised if we’re also going to batter the embarrassing antics by the Odense players.

 

A few thoughts on our fans. The atmosphere was pretty poor IMO. Maybe I just expect too much from a home support. Basically, the atmosphere was great, and then the game started. Okay, maybe a slight exaggeration – it was good for about the first 5-10 minutes, then everybody sat on their arses and watched on quietly, albeit for the odd song that most folk joined in with. I don’t for a minute claim that every Motherwell fan should be singing and dancing, but for a one off game that could potentially be our biggest result in history is it a lot to ask for a decent atmosphere? There was the usual choir down the end of the East Stand, then wee sporadic pockets of individuals or groups of us spread out, but the majority seemed to just lack any particular effort to get involved. Numerous times we would be trying to get a chant going or joining in with one, and I’d turn round to see a load of glaikit, unimpressed faces staring back. I don’t buy the excuse that it’s nerves that spoil the atmosphere, but for argument sake I’ll accept that. So why then, when we go 1-0 down, and therefore have nothing to lose does it remain poor? Christ, during the stages of the game where the players needed that extra bit of backing and support, the majority seem more content to sit there feeling sorry for themselves. There’s plenty of ‘Well fans who are quite happy to berate a player the first minute he doesn’t do the job requested by the gaffer, and yet large quantities of the crowd seemed perfectly happy not to do the job requested by the gaffer – Craig Brown made numerous pleas for an outstanding and intimidating atmosphere last night, and the Motherwell support did not oblige.

 

Also, I came on here last night and read through the posts after the game expecting everyone to be gutted, disappointed, upset, whatever, but commenting on how we created chances and should have won. I foolishly thought that last night, just for once, we’d be spared the usual scapegoat posts. But no, not on Steelmen Online, of course not.

 

So far I’ve read the following...

Nick Blackman – Within 90 minutes he’s went from being a great find to being awful because he missed a couple of chances. If anyone here thinks that missing a couple of chances makes you a dreadful player, there really is no hope for you. He’s a young striker who is still developing and improving (as is evident by the fact he’s been farmed out on loan) and that killer instinct will hopefully come with time. Jutkiewicz looked awful when he turned up, and then look at what happened.

Keith Lasley – He’s now dreadful anaw apparently, despite being a very capable and consistent player for us for years and years.

Tam Hateley – I’m happy to admit he wasn’t near his best last night, and in the second half made too many misplaced passes. But a poor game does not make a poor player. Last season we were all creaming ourselves over telling Accies fans how great a player they’d missed out on when they rejected him after a trial, and this time last week he was an absolute God. Now he’s awful apparently.

Chris Humphrey – Some of the abuse he’s received on this forum is pathetic. He’s a decent player and winger, and more than enough for the SPL. If a Premiership manager’s looking for a world class winger, he’s looking for someone with pace, the ability to go past players, and quality delivery. Chris Humphrey is ridiculously fast and can ghost past most players at will – does anyone really believe for a second that he’d be playing his football at Fir Park if he had great delivery!? Crossing the ball can be worked on, but FFS be happy that we have a winger who can fly past defenders and cause SPL defences problems rather than always having to focus on the negative.

Craig Brown – I’ve read somewhere that his tactics were wrong. That potentially takes the biscuit for the nonsense I read last night. We were the better team and created enough chances to win about three games. That shows, beyond any doubt, that Craig Brown got his tactics right. He can’t influence whether or not our forwards finish their chances. And with regards to the cries of "he should have made a substitution" – who exactly? Unless we had a proven goalscorer on the bench, you’d be looking at changing like for like and disrupting the flow we had built up. Why should we throw Forbes into the midfield and wait for him to get up to pace with the game, when the players already on the park are creating enough chances to put us into extra time?

 

It’s quite evident from some of the shouts you hear at Fir Park and from some of the regular posts on this forum that there’s quite a vocal quantity of our support who don’t know very little about football – and I’m happy to bet that many of them have never played or coached the game at any level. It’s actually cringe-worthy some of the things you hear at games and half the time I’m unsure whether posts on here are real or at the wind-up due to how unbelievable they are. I don’t want to make it sound like I’m just posting to have a go at our support for the sake of it as I’m not – we’re no different from football fans of any other club in the world. But Fir Park, the East Stand especially because of how close it is to the park, has the undeniable potential to be a cauldron of atmosphere – intimidating for the opposition, and inspiring for the home side – and yet, time and time again there seems more negativity than positivity for no apparent reason, other than too many folk like a moan and need someone to blame all the time – and I just find that very frustrating.

 

Anyway, quite a long post and well done if you reached this point. I was fucking bored at work earlier so just started writing this instead of doing anything, but the forums are banned so I e-mailed it to myself and cut and pasted!! In summary, I’m proud of every one of the players and I really can’t wait to get to Fir Park on Sunday to do a Celtic team that appears to be there for the taking, unfortunately along with potentially less than 50% of the folk who turned up last night.

 

MON RA ‘WELL.

[Shaka]

Since when did the opposite wing become the danger area?! At least 10 times he put the ball way over the heads of EVERYONE and Murphy or Hammell would have to head out and pick up the ball. And I think only twice did he manage one across the face of the goal.

 

He biggest problem is he is clearly very inconsistent when crossing and the strikers in the box don't know what to expect from him, making it hard for them to get on the end of things!

 

The majority spoke last night, as the game went on you had more and more groans everytime he fluffed a cross.

 

And no not 25 goals per game, more chances and more work for defenders. Why can't he stop and put his head up everytime. David Beckham has made a very good career of it and all his great crosses aren't converted?!

 

I like him as a player, has good potential. Just needs to work on his delivery and then he will be, maybe not quite the best player ever seen, but a major player for Motherwell.

 

most of the crosses that ended up on the opposite wing were back post crosses where no-one had run to,again its not his fault no-one can anticipate a cross and take a chance,If we had a striker or even midfielder running to back post we`d have had 3 or 4 free headers from 5 yards out last night, yes some of his crosses hit the stand,yes some are too long but every game he plays he puts in 5-10 crosses at head height across the face of goal,you cant blame him for the ball ending up on the other wing when no-one bothers to get into proper positions. If you asked Beckham,or any other top winger, they would all say their job is to put the ball in an area that would create danger,its then up to their strikers to convert those chances, Humph for the most part does that.

 

Id like to see training drills where the strikers and midfielders practice movement and runs into the box cause it really seems were clueless at times and its not just Humphrey,its the same when Hammell crosses from the left,we just seem unable to anticipate or move for crosses

[Infamous Wee Grafter]

I'm I right in saying that Group C would have been our group had we won last night? Could have been lovely trips to Portugal, France and Bulgaria for us aww.

[Yir Elder]

Once again Jay hits the nail on the head, well said mate.

[Haggischomper]

it was good for about the first 5-10 minutes, then everybody sat on their arses and watched on quietly

 

 

There's the atmosphere problem right there.

[Jay]

There's the atmosphere problem right there.

 

Yes and no, the stewards were perfectly happy to let people stand last night. We were told to sit down, and I heard numerous other people being told to sit down - not by stewards or police, but by Motherwell fans.

 

So yes, you're right in that standing would have undoubtedly increased the atmosphere - but the only reason Motherwell fans weren't standing was because they couldn't be arsed doing so.

['WellMagic!]

All we needed was a player make a back post run to convert humps crosses! Most players were clustered at the front post. I can only remember one humph cross hitting the stand last night, I can easily remember at least 5-10 crosses being put in a decent area beasting the left back. We would not create chances without him.

[Haggischomper]

I know I'm gonna sound like a fanny saying this, but standing at a seat isn't the same as standing on a terracing, leaning on a stanction somehow. Just seems too......ordered, I suppose.

[Jay]

I know I'm gonna sound like a fanny saying this, but standing at a seat isn't the same as standing on a terracing, leaning on a stanction somehow. Just seems too......ordered, I suppose.

 

Of course it's not the same, but that's not the debate. Plenty of football fans around the globe manage to stand at a seat and get a cracking atmosphere going, and plenty of Motherwell fans are quick to greet about how they're not allowed to stand. Suddenly there's a potentially historic football match requiring a big atmosphere at Fir Park where everyone can get away with standing up, and most folk sit on their arses!

[milo]

I agree with 95% of you post Jay, except the bit about the atmosphere. I thought before the game and right up until the goal it was absolutely electric. Real "hairs standing up on the back of your neck" stuff. The Odense goal understandably knocked the wind out everyones sails, and after that, due to the bad refereeing and frustrating inability to convert even one of the hatful of chances we created, the crowds mood and response was entirely understandable and as I would expect it to be. Even one ultimately meaningless goal would've changed all that but it wasn't to be.

[Well Up For It!]

I agree with 95% of you post Jay, except the bit about the atmosphere. I thought before the game and right up until the goal it was absolutely electric. Real "hairs standing up on the back of your neck" stuff. The Odense goal understandably knocked the wind out everyones sails, and after that, due to the bad refereeing and frustrating inability to convert even one of the hatful of chances we created, the crowds mood and response was entirely understandable and as I would expect it to be. Even one ultimately meaningless goal would've changed all that but it wasn't to be.

 

 

What he said

[SuperCC]

Once again Jay hits the nail on the head, well said mate.

 

+1

[Suprawell]

I'm I right in saying that Group C would have been our group had we won last night? Could have been lovely trips to Portugal, France and Bulgaria for us aww.

 

 

Aye, I wanted at least one glamour tie and the pish that was dished up in the draw of

 

Sporting Lisbon, Lille and Levski Sofia leaves ALOT to be desired.

 

Nothing missed in terms of ties IMO

[SuperCC]

Having read most of the match threads and inclusive shite I think almost every player (and management) has been slated/blamed/hounded/criticised at some point, including Casagolda and he wasnt even in the squad.

Its also the fault of the fans, real radio, the stewards, officials, pissheads outside Ryans bar, some 4 year old boy who wanted a piss and anyone who doesnt wear claret and amber.

 

Have i missed anyone?

 

Shit happens but just how negative can we be as personally I think its been a great run, I had two jollies to both Norway and Denmark with some great memories and more pre-season entertainment in the last few years than we will see in the next 10.

 

PS, actually the officials were shite and are to blame!!

[El Grew]

First up thanks to all at the club for their hard work and effort in taking us so close again in Europe and for behaving with courtesy, humility and dignity in the face of exactly the opposite from our Danish opponents.

 

The guys gave it their very best shot last night and you can't ask them for any more than that but ultimately in the final analysis it just wasn't good enough.

 

What made it hard to take last night, was that they are not a particularly good side. Sure they have a couple of handy players but they fell apart once pressure was applied in the second half and if we had been a little more clinical in our finishing then they'd be out of the competition.

 

What we sorely lacked was composure in the finishing department however to get that in the modern football era costs more money than we have available and ultimately that was what cost us our place in the group stages. Sure folk can have a go (and I have and will continue to do so) but when you look at the fact that the guy to whom the best chances fell in the second half, had up until a few weeks ago, been plying his trade in the Blackburn reserves then you have to admit that its a really big step-up and ask to expect him to come into a Europa League play-off game and start firing in goals.

 

We also lacked any creativity in the midfield area - somebody who can make a few telling passes into the inside right and inside left channels for Jamie Murphy to be able to really hurt defensives. I thought last night that although Jamie Murphy had a decent game, he too often had possession of the ball in areas of the field where, if you were the opposition, you'd be pleased to see him there. We have to find a way of getting him into and around the penalty box where he can cause the most fear to defenders and danger with his pace and touch. Its not use him getting ball out in the corners or 30 yards out.

 

As I've posted before, our old failing returned last night to cost us the goal - inability to deal with crosses into the box. We have needed a big no-nonsense centre-back for a good few seasons now and yet we still haven't sorted this out. The goal was too similar to the one that Stokes scored for Hibs a couple of weeks ago for my liking. We need to address this and soon.

 

On that track, a really pleasing aspect for me last night was the peformance of young Stephen Saunders. I thought he was immense for such a young player and I made him our best defender on the night. He is the best defensive header of a ball seen at FP for years, he's athletic and fit and is great on overlapping runs and not afraid to do so. He's coming on a ton.

 

I think that's the way forward for us now. Bring in the young players and lets see if they have got what it takes. No harm to the rest of our back four but I personally think its time to bring Hutchison back and play him and Saunders as the centre-back pairing and bring in young Jonathan Page at right back and push Reynolds to left-back. I believe this would make a far better defensive unit.

 

Anyway, don't get too down on the team - just look at Celtic with all the money and resources available to them - we run on a fraction of the budget of them and most other clubs in the SPL so chin up and chase top six again and maybe get back into Europe for another crack next season.

[WellTiliDie]

To get into the play off round of the Europa League after where we were after the 3-1 defeat against St Johnstone on Boxing Day last year was a magnificent achievement.

 

When we got past Aalesunds even before the draw was made 90% of the fans would have said we've not got much chance of making the Group stages. In Odense we drew a team that were decent but very much beatable as the 2 legs have shown. We never took our chances, they did.

 

It's been brilliant following the Well in Europe this season and i've been lucky enough to have made it to the Breidablik and Odense trips, the latter trip being the best away trip ever.

[Pepper]

Having read most of the match threads and inclusive shite I think almost every player (and management) has been slated/blamed/hounded/criticised at some point, including Casagolda and he wasnt even in the squad.

Its also the fault of the fans, real radio, the stewards, officials, pissheads outside Ryans bar, some 4 year old boy who wanted a piss and anyone who doesnt wear claret and amber.

 

Have i missed anyone?

 

Shit happens but just how negative can we be as personally I think its been a great run, I had two jollies to both Norway and Denmark with some great memories and more pre-season entertainment in the last few years than we will see in the next 10.

 

PS, actually the officials were shite and are to blame!!

 

 

 

[jonnymfc]

Lets aim for 3rd. We can doooo it!

[Spiderpig]

(Haggischomper @ Aug 27 2010, 02:05 PM) I know I'm gonna sound like a fanny saying this, but standing at a seat isn't the same as standing on a terracing, leaning on a stanction somehow. Just seems too......ordered, I suppose.

I cant believe how many people seem to think that standing at games is a good idea. I am old enough to remember some of the Sh**e holes i used to go to to see motherwell,some of the grounds were downright dangerous. Does anyone really want to go back to those conditions ? If Hillsborough had never happened then we would still be turning up to Fir Park to stand on the Red ash terracing, old railway sleepers holding it up, brick enclosures with no roof as a toilet, etc but still paying todays prices.

 

Lets be honest about the atmosphere at Fir Park, its no different to any other ground in Scotland or England for that matter, listen to the crowds at Old Trafford , Stamford bridge, Anfield, or Ibrox or parkhead and the vast majority of the time its all very subdued. The large crowds only make it sound a lot better.

Scottish football fans don't have a great tradition of creating hostile environments at matches ( we used to specialise in creating hostile atmospheres out side grounds ) on the scale of the Greek, Italian or Turkish clubs fans.

 

So trying to suggest that everyone standing and singing etc to create a better atmosphere would have helped the team last night is nonsense. We were beaten because we are lightweight up front and dont take chances.

[Wellfan1984]

Lets aim for 3rd. We can doooo it!

 

Fuck third, we've done that. We've also done fair play and by league-cup default. It's time for us to actually win the Scottish Cup to qualify!

 

'Mon the Well!

[Haggischomper]

Only ground I can remember thinking was even remotely dangerous was Brockville. Standing isn't dangerous though - I do it all the time.

[Jay]

Lets be honest about the atmosphere at Fir Park, its no different to any other ground in Scotland or England for that matter, listen to the crowds at Old Trafford , Stamford bridge, Anfield, or Ibrox or parkhead and the vast majority of the time its all very subdued. The large crowds only make it sound a lot better.

 

I couldn't care less what other ground's are like with regards to atmosphere. So we shouldn't aspire to improve the atmosphere at Fir Park because St Mirren fans sit in silence? Quite a poor attitude to have.

 

Scottish football fans don't have a great tradition of creating hostile environments at matches ( we used to specialise in creating hostile atmospheres out side grounds ) on the scale of the Greek, Italian or Turkish clubs fans.

 

So trying to suggest that everyone standing and singing etc to create a better atmosphere would have helped the team last night is nonsense. We were beaten because we are lightweight up front and dont take chances.

 

Of course a better atmosphere would have helped the team, even it was just slightly. It's surely obvious to anyone that if players (especially younger players) are a little nervy or feel up against it, then some will take a mental boost from a big backing from the stands. No one is remotely suggesting that an improved atmosphere would have sent us sailing into the group stages - but the fact remains that Craig Brown, and a few of the players, requested as good an atmosphere as possible, and the Motherwell support wasn't nearly as vocal as it could have been IMO.

 

There is a great atmosphere created at Hampden at times (Italy & France at home for example), due mainly to the standing en masse by the fans in the West & North Stands where no one sits down. The best atmospheres I can remember being in at away Motherwell games also involved standing. It's not even up for debate that standing goes hand in hand with an improved atmosphere.

[SuperCC]

I couldn't care less what other ground's are like with regards to atmosphere. So we shouldn't aspire to improve the atmosphere at Fir Park because St Mirren fans sit in silence? Quite a poor attitude to have.

 

Tend to agree with the original comment as Scottish fans have become more subdued over the years and the atmosphere can be electric in places like Italy, Turkey, etc....

 

What I did notice in both Norway and Denmark was how the Clubs in partnership with the fans have gone to great lengths to generate atmosphere from the fact that they have all the pre match synchronised flag waving with huge club supplied flags and banners, stomping loud music (heard AC/DC at both grounds), all the standing and jumping from fans behind the goals, drums being used to keep the chants going and in sync and generally just much more passion being driven in different ways combined with a much more relaxed stewarding and policing policy.

 

Now neither Odense or Alesund are big city clubs but they both used the same tactics to generate noise from the fans and the only difference was that in Alesund the stadium and crowd was perfect but in Odense the stadium design and lack of bodies didnt help.

[gies a stella]

Im in Poland a fair bit and when I'm there I go and see Lech Poznan play. Compared to games here the atmosphere is in a different league. The club and the ultras work together and it puts Scottish/British crowds to shame.

 

[cambo97]

Fuck third, we've done that. We've also done fair play and by league-cup default. It's time for us to actually win the Scottish Cup to qualify!

 

'Mon the Well!

 

We've done that before too.